[Phillclsax]

Hello! I'm a clarinet player now doubling on alto sax. I started with a Meyer #5 mpc and things were going fine. But as I kept practicing it began closing off. So I switched to a Vandoren A35. But still felt too free blowing. Now I got this 95/1 SMS Berg Larsen but I'm not very secure that this is the one for me. When I started on sax I also though I'd go for more closed mouthpieces since the clarinet has a closer tip opening (I'm using a B40 mpc on clarinet). So the question is if this would be a good match??

 

[Aquarian]

If you're having reeds close off, you might be taking in too little of the mouthpiece (and biting). Another thing is what reed strength you're using. I used to have it happen sometimes, but my embouchure has changed and now I don't have it even using #2 reeds on a #5. One big change was trying to play at 80% volume 80% of the time, something I read in a thread here.

The mouthpiece thing is very personal. I don't know that there is a way to know other than trying, but considering the mouthpieces you have, I think rather than going on the hunt again I would go through what you have and consider what you like, what you don't, and whether you can improve with it. You have 3 good mouthpieces, all of which are professional level, and which cover the basic types of jazz mouthpiece. Your answer is somewhere in there, even if you get a new piece those will tell you what direction to go.

Thing is, no mouthpiece is going to fix your closing off problem, that is an issue of embouchure rather than mouthpiece. A harder reed can mitigate it somewhat but it's not a mouthpiece issue.

 

[milandro]

clarinet players are using often times way more pressure than saxophone players and generally take too little mouthpiece in and have a very tense embouchure , compared to saxophone players.

So you maybe chocking the reed with pressure and have little mouthpiece in your mouth. I don't think that the solution is a new mouthpiece with more resistance but rather learn to relax your embouchure which taking more mouthpiece in.

you are also , of course, not the first one to undergo this ( search the archives!)

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?25133-Embouchure-problems-Clarinetist-learning-alto-sax

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?184870-Switching-from-clarinet-to-sax

 

[Lambros]

Hello! I'm a clarinet player now doubling on alto sax. I started with a Meyer #5 mpc and things were going fine. But as I kept practicing it began closing off. So I switched to a Vandoren A35. But still felt too free blowing. Now I got this 95/1 SMS Berg Larsen but I'm not very secure that this is the one for me. When I started on sax I also though I'd go for more closed mouthpieces since the clarinet has a closer tip opening (I'm using a B40 mpc on clarinet). So the question is if this would be a good match??

Good morning and welcome to SOTW! What reed strengths are you using on clarinet normally? What reed strength did you start out on that closed up on you on the Meyer 5?

 

[leycroft]

A B40 clarinet mouthpiece isnt classed as" closed .

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

If a Meyer 5 is closing off, get yourself a Meyer 7.

 

[dexdex]

Hi Phill. Welcome here. Originally coming from the clarinet, I’m playing saxes for some decades now, and picking up the clarinet now and then, more again as I have some written parts in a band. I just settled on a B45Lyre.
As stated above, saxes require less “bite” and less angle than the common clarinet technique. This is something you’ll have to work on. It took me quite some time to relax my saxes embouchure. And yes, you place your lips further onto the mp, and keep the horn in front of you while playing, and not against your side, this helps to squeeze less and keep the right angle.
I wouldn’t in any case move to a too open alto mouthpiece, which can get tricky, tiring and also intonation wise.
I’d stick with a Meyer 5 type, but maybe try harder reeds, like Vandoren blue box which were considered the rather classic reference back in the days.
I’m of no useful advice on reeds though, as I moved to synthetics long ago. My last cane reeds before I switched were LaVoz M both on alto sax and clarinet.

 

[dirty]

I find saxes to have a lot more variable resistance across the range of the horn than clarinets and it's easy to try to use hard reeds to darken the tone in the middle and upper registers, which makes the low register an unreliable headache. I've worked with a few clarinetists picking up the sax over the years and it's a really common theme for them (and me when I started) to use reeds that are too hard to avoid what's perceived as brightness. The sax has a very different feeling from the clarinet and also it's a lot edgier and brighter than the clarinet, even in the "legit" realm and I had to get used to what it felt like to make a sax tone.

As a clarinetist coming to the sax, I had a big breakthrough when I went to softer reeds and committed to having a different embouchure on the sax than the clarinet. If your mouthpiece is closing off, it's probably because you're biting too much. Try to resist the temptation to compensate for that by going to a harder reed or a more open mouthpiece just yet. Maybe down the line you'll do one or both of those things, but they can encourage you to do the thing you know how to do (bite) to the detriment of the thing you are learning how to do (play the sax like a sax).

 

[Sigmund451]

Id say move to a lighter reed...of course I dont know what reed you are playing.

If you are biting going to a harder reed may make you bite more. I presume you are serious about playing. This means you need to work on your embroschure.

Create a setup where any amount of biting closes off. This will force you to relax if you want to make sound. In all likelhood the adjustment wont take long so dont buy a big bunch of light reeds.

While it makes sense to try to cure the problem with harder reeds I think a long term fix is more in order. Biting can lead to intonation problems also. Better to fix the problem up front and be done with it.

 

[Lambros]

I find saxes to have a lot more variable resistance across the range of the horn than clarinets and it's easy to try to use hard reeds to darken the tone in the middle and upper registers, which makes the low register an unreliable headache. I've worked with a few clarinetists picking up the sax over the years and it's a really common theme for them (and me when I started) to use reeds that are too hard to avoid what's perceived as brightness. The sax has a very different feeling from the clarinet and also it's a lot edgier and brighter than the clarinet, even in the "legit" realm and I had to get used to what it felt like to make a sax tone.

As a clarinetist coming to the sax, I had a big breakthrough when I went to softer reeds and committed to having a different embouchure on the sax than the clarinet. If your mouthpiece is closing off, it's probably because you're biting too much. Try to resist the temptation to compensate for that by going to a harder reed or a more open mouthpiece just yet. Maybe down the line you'll do one or both of those things, but they can encourage you to do the thing you know how to do (bite) to the detriment of the thing you are learning how to do (play the sax like a sax).

All excellent points and observations that I learned in reverse as I was a saxophonist before becoming a clarinetist. To the OP, please don't be overwhelmed with all of this info and, there is no reason why a Meyer 5M shouldn't work for you. When you compare a Vandoren B40 with a Meyer 5M, they're more in line with each other as both are right on the verge of being where medium tip openings begin for sax and clarinet. That's why I asked what reeds you're using; you have to find a reed that you're comfortable with on the Meyer first before you can even consider what will play properly on a Berg with an .095 tip opening; the 5M is only at .071.

 

[Dr G]

A parallel thread to this remainder me that we should not assume that the OP is holding the horn in an optimum position. If the horn is held too close to the body, the angle of the mouthpiece to the face exacerbates the tendency of the lip to damp the reed and negatively affect the reed’s vibration.

I agree that a Meyer 5MM with appropriate reed strength should be a great setup.

 

[Dr G]

A parallel thread to this remainder me that we should not assume that the OP is holding the horn in an optimum position. If the horn is held too close to the body, the angle of the mouthpiece to the face exacerbates the tendency of the lip to damp the reed and negatively affect the reed’s vibration.

I agree that a Meyer 5MM with appropriate reed strength should be a great setup.

 

[adamk]

A parallel thread to this remainder me that we should not assume that the OP is holding the horn in an optimum position. If the horn is held too close to the body, the angle of the mouthpiece to the face exacerbates the tendency of the lip to damp the reed and negatively affect the reed's vibration.

I agree that a Meyer 5MM with appropriate reed strength should be a great setup.

+1 about the angle.

 

[swperry1]

If a Meyer 5 is closing off, get yourself a Meyer 7.

Or stop biting and treat it like a saxophone and not a clarinet.

 

[lydian]

This:

Or stop biting and treat it like a saxophone and not a clarinet.

The wrong way to do it is to treat sax like clarinet and vice versa. The embouchures are very different. A Meyer 5 should not close up if you're playing correctly on a medium reed. Getting a more open mouthpiece will just result in worse intonation because you'll bite most of the notes sharp and sound like crap in the process.

Put clarinet out of your mind, and learn to play the sax like a sax.

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

Or stop biting and treat it like a saxophone and not a clarinet.

I almost amended my comment to add exactly that. Thanks.

 

[swperry1]

I almost amended my comment to add exactly that. Thanks.

But instead you said exactly the opposite and advised to get a larger tip opening to invite in all the problems mdavej mentions...

 

[Lambros]

If a Meyer 5 is closing off, get yourself a Meyer 7.

Again, I hope this is a thread where the first time/new member OP doesn't get discouraged by what would seem like bickering and not points of clarity. To your point of going to a Meyer 7, good point but the Vandoren A35 is already an .081 tip opening piece like the Meyer 7M, granted it's different in other respects but the feel of the reed at least would feel similar. So what we know so far is that there are 3 alto mouthpieces involved, .071, .081, and, .095 tipped and, we have no idea what reeds are being used. We don't know what strength he or she is using on the B40; are we talking a well developed embouchure that can facilitate a 3 or 3.5 strength Vandoren V12 reed or similar or something even stronger, or weaker perhaps? An .048 tipped clarinet piece is, like I said earlier, at the threshold of being medium.

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

Again, I hope this is a thread where the first time/new member OP doesn't get discouraged by what would seem like bickering and not points of clarity. To your point of going to a Meyer 7, good point but the Vandoren A35 is already an .081 tip opening piece like the Meyer 7M, granted it's different in other respects but the feel of the reed at least would feel similar. So what we know so far is that there are 3 alto mouthpieces involved, .071, .081, and, .095 tipped and, we have no idea what reeds are being used. We don't know what strength he or she is using on the B40; are we talking a well developed embouchure that can facilitate a 3 or 3.5 strength Vandoren V12 reed or similar or something even stronger, or weaker perhaps? An .048 tipped clarinet piece is, like I said earlier, at the threshold of being medium.

Well, we know the OP is playing a B40 on the clarinet. That's like driving a truck without power steering, a lot of effort is required with that mouthpiece. So, maybe OP is trying too hard? When I started on an alto, I had already been playing tenor and clarinet for years. I went straight to a Meyer 8 then after a year or so backed down to a 7. But, I was serious about trying the Meyer 7.

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

But instead you said exactly the opposite and advised to get a larger tip opening to invite in all the problems mdavej mentions...

No, not really the opposite. My point would have been exactly what you said. Anyway, moving on. I stand by what I said originally about the 7.