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Altissimo, basic questions

4K views 27 replies 20 participants last post by  SwingBop 
#1 ·
Questions are: Why and When?

I'm REALLY not trying to be flippant or step on anyone's toes. Serious question.
I'm just an old geezer that never played professionally just getting back into it after 25 years off, but I have never had the desire to learn this, yet it seems to be a subject of many "which horn" discussions. The sax has a natural range of 2 1/2 octaves. Are professional charts written with notes higher that F? Did you decide that 2 1/2 octaves is not enough to solo on?
 
#2 ·
The vast majority of written works do not include any altissimo. But some do. If you want to play those pieces then you'd be SOL when you come to that section. But that is really only the smallest portion of why.

If you never play an altissimo note in your life the studies and exercises for learning altissimo will still greatly improve your tone by adding harmonics (depth) to your sound.

When. For me is in pretty much every solo. It doesn't mean playing the entire solo up an octave. It means having a few notes that I can carve into and shoot for as dramatic points in the solo.

It also means I'm more effectively able to play the styles of music I like to play. Because when I listen to Junior Walker, Lenny Pickett, Willis Jackson, Sax Gordon, all of those guys use altissimo. If I said "Oh, I don't need to be able to play those notes" then I would be doing myself a massive injustice by avoiding learning them.

On the other side of the spectrum. Joshua Redman, Chris Potter, John Coltrane, Kenny Garret. They all use altissimo as well. Much less in the "Now I'm playing a high note" style but more as a fluid connection of the range of the horn.
 
#3 ·
Questions are: Why and When?
As an arranger and c omposer I was taught to notr write altissimo unless you are writying for a specific player you know is. OK with that. Virtuoso classical pieces will also have altissimo, but only for soloist , I would not think it's something that should ever be written for sections unless 9again) it is a specific bunch of individuals you know.

Check out Jun ior Walker, Gato Barbieri, King Curtis, Earl Bostic...

 
#5 ·
Wow. Pete, thanks for posting that - I've posted it here too. Its the ultimate Bostic song for high tones. And littlewailer mentioned Jr. Walker, another fave of mine. In fact, I recently discovered his live version of 'What Does It Take' from the Tonight show with Letterman and Paul Schaffer. It is distinctly different from the standard version many of us have been playing for many years, and has a lot more 'zip' to it. I've been working on it and I think we're going to do it at tomorrow night's show.
 
#6 ·
Up there in orbit by Earl Bostic sets the bar so high I can’t even see it! Fabulous fluidity right across the whole range of the horn, natural to supersonic. One of my favourite listens: apparently, Earl blew Charlie Parker offstage at least once. Shame most folk only remember him for Flamingo...
 
#8 ·
The trumpet also as a "normal" range, but it is an harmonic instrument, so the limit is basically in the person playing. Maybe if you didn't have octave key second octave would be altíssimo... If you master an instrument, then I think you can and should use everything you can with it if it makes sense to do it in the context. Yes you can play normal range in soprano for altissimo in alto, but the sound is different. Its all about what you want to do and show and transmit to the audience.
 
#9 ·
Now, who can tell me what song 'Up There In Orbit' is based on? Clue; its a 'round', that is, without a bridge. And once you know, think about how many times you may have dismissed that song as being 'below' you and not worth trying to improvise on.
 
#10 ·
As an aside. Earl's Grandson Mayhue (who is a great jazz and R/B guitar player) is on FB. He's a cool guy to follow. Especially if you are in for a nice honest discussion about world topics and some of the things going on in the states right now. He never shares anything with his opinion posted he just says "What are your thoughts" and then responds to peoples comments. Nice guy.
 
#16 ·
Questions are: Why and When?
Why : even if you don't use that range, it helps a *lot* on the normal range of the saxophone (sound, intonation, ...). And IMHO it's always good to learn technique on your instrument, like I'm not fan of tapping on my guitar but I learned how to do it.

When : I don't think there is a standard, but usually if you can play the whole normal range of your sax with all dynamics (pp to ff, w/ tongue attack, w/o attack), you can start learning altissimo. If you can't play a high F (or F# if you have a key) clearly, in tune, with or without tonguing, don't try to play altissimo yet.
 
#18 ·
On a two hour show these day I'm only using altissimo on 3 or 4 songs. It does get an audience reaction, but it has diminishing returns when you try to use it too often. The instrument sounds best in its 'normal' range - Cats that overuse it (IMO) don't sound nearly as good as they could.
 
#22 ·
+1. It's all too common to overuse altissimo, which tends to diminish its effect. But this also highlights why it can be very effective. Nailing one or more of those high notes at the right time in a solo can be exciting and really gets the audience engaged. In a relatively high volume situation, with electric guitar(s), loud drummer, etc, altissimo might be the only way to really be heard :). But again, it's only effective when used as a 'spice' in moderation.

You can point to some jazz greats who very rarely, if ever, used altissimo, most notably, Charlie Parker. If I could play like Charlie Parker, I wouldn't need altissimo either. But in the genre I play on my tenor (jump blues, funk, 'standard' blues, etc), I need the altissimo range to some extent.
 
#19 ·
In the orchestra I play alto in there are often (F#) G G# and A altissimo notes scored for the 1st part, but I think that is down to the poorly thought out and somewhat lazy arrangements we have second alto is usually playing down a 3rd so no altissimo.
I guess it just depends
 
#20 ·
Those are valid questions. A couple answers:

Offhand, I can remember only one chart in which the first tenor was asked for altissimo, and even then it would've sounded OK if I'd just played it down an octave. Altissimo doesn't come up often as far as written arrangements go, but you do see it once in a while.

And yes, at some point I did decide I needed to be able to hit altissimo notes for soloing. For a long time, I didn't care about playing altissimo. Heck, Dexter Gordon almost never did it, so why should I want to? Eventually, I decided I needed to be able to do it, basically just because it seemed like something a decent sax player ought to be able to do. If the guy sitting next to me could do it, I wanted to do it, too! I think a lot of us start working on altissimo based on that kind of competitiveness. Long story short, I started working on overtones with the idea of getting learning altissimo, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that this improved my tone overall, in addition to helping me get some extra top notes. I still didn't use them much, until I started playing more funk. Playing funk solos, I really started "hearing" altissimo notes, and it seemed natural to go up there more often.

So I guess the moral of the story is that it's OK to not play altissimo and OK not to want to work on it, but if you do decide to work on it, you'll probably improve your tone overall, and you may find you need it at some point.
 
#21 ·
Altissimo is fun! (except when it isn't).

Personally, it has been (and currently is) an on-going struggle to learn and master altissimo. It has never come easy to me, but I have seen great benefit in my tone and control in the normal register. And the altissimo I can nail sound GREAT (when used sparingly and appropriately).

I can't get my tenor altissimo to save my life, but my bari (main ax) and alto altissimo work well enough. *shrug*.
 
#23 ·
I play "up there" pretty often on tenor, and especially on alto.

+11 to earlier comments. It will help you play below the alt. range; it is almost essential to stretch the range of the instrument with the worst range of all; it will help you hear intonation problems better; it sounds cool; it will tweak the lead trumpet player something fierce, and that is worth doing all by itself!

I play to C4 effortlessly these days. That is nothing special in itself, but it gives a full 3 octave range. All the time.
Tuesday at big band rehearsal we were playing Stevie Wonder "Sir Duke". First time through, I played the signature lick as written. Second time up an octave on tenor. Unison with the lead alto instead of an octave below. It sounded great. He did a little mental math, and grabbed the tenor sheet to confirm.
Then he cursed, but quietly.

Winning!
 
#25 ·
I think it especially helps with tone on d3-f3. Overblowing 6ths on those notes is a good altissimo exercise, like closed-tube harmonics only open. You'll learn a lot of venting techniques by working on altissimo, and the harmonic series in general.

Most audience members on jazz gigs aren't really aware that you're beyond the natural range of the horn, they either like it or they don't. Such as my wife, she says she'd like it better if there weren't so many solos, and if I wouldn't play so high. Up to G4 works fine on tenor for me, but I've been told "why not just play soprano?". When I play altissimo on soprano, I get complaints about the gatherings of dogs that appear.

If you don't play altissimo on an R&B gig, though, people would notice. It's just kind of the way it's supposed to sound I guess. Imagine Lenny Pickett with no altissimo -- just something missing from the picture.
 
#26 ·
If you don't play altissimo on an R&B gig, though, people would notice. It's just kind of the way it's supposed to sound I guess.
Really? I agree, as an R & B player, you can of course play altissimo, but there are loads of R & B players who don't. I don't think there are rules that say you have to.
 
#27 ·
I looked it up in the R&B Sax Handbook and sure enough, it doesn't say anything about altissimo being a requirement!

Someone mentioned Sir Duke, that section has a range from low C to high A; not that very high but if you don't play altissimo you have to change octaves, kind of a drag. The Cristlieb lick at the end of Deacon Blues starts on a high C, I always feel kind of obligated to play his solo ending for the sake of the band's cred, which may be a bogus perspective, but the guitar player likes it -- I think he'd prefer the recorded solo verbatim. I like to start a solo on Pick Up The Pieces that starts on G4 and runs a linear thing down to low Bb, I don't know if the audience digs it but it's almost like a warmup lick to me. All the old Motown stuff seems to lend itself to wanting a way high sax solo, but that might just be me.
 
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