[Bubba06]

I've been into altissimo a bit for the last 2 years. Not a whole lot really.

But, I used the Eb palm keys for Altissimo C and E natural for C#.

Now, on alto, when I go to play those palm keys for their standard notes, it has a tendency of jumping up to those altissimo notes.

It does seem to happen more often with harder reeds, but I need to use my stronger strength reeds for my auditions coming up, where I'm playing Tableux de Provence...

I have to sustain an E3.
I'm playing on Selmer Ref. 54 with a Selmer Soloist C* and Vandoren Blue 3s.

Please help!,
Bubba

 

[DanPerezSax]

You're putting too much pressure on the reed. Relax!

 

[Bubba06]

Thanks Dan! That seems to help.

I'm worried that when I'm not concentrating on this it'll slip back. Is there a way I can simply make it muscle memory?

Thanks,
Bubba

 

[Pete Thomas]

Is there a way I can simply make it muscle memory?

I would suggest you try the orthodox altissimo fingerings, forget using these ones for altissimo, that way your "muscle memory" will remember the pitch as the actual notes. Practise lots of long notes. But why use harder reeds just because there are auditions coming up? I don't understand that.

 

[Bubba06]

I would suggest you try the orthodox altissimo fingerings, forget using these ones for altissimo, that way your "muscle memory" will remember the pitch as the actual notes. Practise lots of long notes. But why use harder reeds just because there are auditions coming up? I don't understand that.

I was unclear; I use harder reeds when I'm playing classical,. With 2 1/2s my sound is unstable.

The fingerings I was using for those notes were really just a short term fix. I was asked to hit those notes for a Big Band solo, so I used them in an attempt to concentrate on other things... Like audition material.

-Bubba-

 

[mrsaxpunk]

What would an orthodox fingering for altissimo C and C# be Pete?

 

[Pete Thomas]

The fingerings I was using for those notes were really just a short term fix. I was asked to hit those notes for a Big Band solo,...

Exactly my point. Short term fixes can lead to bad habits, which is what has happened. I would practise lots of long notes, overtones and different intervals up and down to/from those notes. And relax, maybe try pushing the mouthpiece on just a little further which will force you to relax and hopefully stop biting.

 

[Bubba06]

Exactly my point. Short term fixes can lead to bad habits, which is what has happened. I would practise lots of long notes, overtones and different intervals up and down to/from those notes. And relax, maybe try pushing the mouthpiece on just a little further which will force you to relax and hopefully stop biting.

Well I know what I'll be working on for a while. I'd really hate to have it slip up during my auditions..

Sidenote: Why push in?

I have a feeling he would suggest these... http://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxophone-altissimo.html

-Bubba-

 

[Pete Thomas]

What would an orthodox fingering for altissimo C and C# be Pete?

Well, there isn't just one. The ones I like are

C: LH1 LH 3 RH 1 (maybe add RH3 and/or Eb)

C#: standard B fingering will do it, or standard top F# fingering (aux F LH2 and side Bb)

Having said that, I think that the palm key E fingering is actually OK, but you do need to know how to "voice" the altissimo to stop the OP's problem of it happening inadvertently, which is where the long notes, intervals and overtones will help.

 

[Guest]

Well, there isn't just one. The ones I like are

C: LH1 LH 3 RH 1 (maybe add RH3 and/or Eb)

C#: standard B fingering will do it, or standard top F# fingering (aux F LH2 and side Bb)

Having said that, I think that the palm key E fingering is actually OK, but you do need to know how to "voice" the altissimo to stop the OP's problem of it happening inadvertently, which is where the long notes, intervals and overtones will help.

Interesting, I will have to try those out, as I usually use the palm keys up there on those notes also.

 

[swperry1]

Pete's fingerings are solid on alto and tenor, but I don't care for them when moving chromatically because it means going from LH 1+3 to LH aux F+2...not an easy transition to make smoothly.

I have been playing around with the palm keys for notes above Bb for about a month now. Jeff Coffin talked about this method at a clinic I attended (and got to play at!). They seem to be working as long as I am focusing on "singing" the right note in my head. I will try to explain:

Start on whatever altissimo A you like. There are a lot of them, so take your pick.

For Bb use the octave key + LH 3 (add side C if needed...mine is flat without). From here up, LH 3 stays down so you use the body octave vent instead of the neck.

LH 3+ Palm D fingering= B
LH 3+ Palm Eb fingering= C
LH 3+ Palm E fingering= C#
LH 3+ Palm F fingering= D
LH 3= D#
LH 3+ Palm D fingering= E
LH 3+ Palm Eb fingering= F
LH 3+ Palm E fingering= F#
LH 3+ Palm F fingering= G

I have to use Side C to bring the pitch up on each set for the open, D and Eb fingerings. You may not. Anyway, give these a try, you never know. By the way, Dan is right back there in his post: RELAX! I used to bite a lot...hard habit to break.

 

[Bubba06]

Those are quite similar to what I was using.

-Bubba-

 

[Debber]

In addition to the very good suggestions of Dan and Pete (less presure and proper voicing) you also might check the position of your lip. While going for the altissimo you might have been taking less lip on the reed so that the reed vibrates faster. This is actually described by David Liebman in his excellent book "Developing a personal saxophone sound" where he explains how it is possible to play a major sixth and ninth above on some of the highest palm key pitches.
You might want to be aware of the best position of your lip for the actual pitch you want to sound using the palm keys (regular pitch vs. altissimo).

 

[Bubba06]

In addition to the very good suggestions of Dan and Pete (less presure and proper voicing) you also might check the position of your lip. While going for the altissimo you might have been taking less lip on the reed so that the reed vibrates faster. This is actually described by David Liebman in his excellent book "Developing a personal saxophone sound" where he explains how it is possible to play a major sixth and ninth above on some of the highest palm key pitches.
You might want to be aware of the best position of your lip for the actual pitch you want to sound using the palm keys (regular pitch vs. altissimo).

Are you referring to the top or bottom lip? Or both of course?

-Bubba-

 

[Debber]

Are you referring to the top or bottom lip? Or both of course?

Bottom lip, for high notes the bottom lip rolls away from the tip of the reed so that more of the reed tip vibrates. Vice versa for low notes the bottom lip moves towards the tip of the reed so that less of the reed tip vibrates.

 

[swperry1]

Bottom lip, for high notes the bottom lip rolls away from the tip of the reed so that more of the reed tip vibrates. Vice versa for low notes the bottom lip moves towards the tip of the reed so that less of the reed tip vibrates.

Make sure you are keeping the same pressure on the reed. It is easier to think in terms of jaw movement, not lip movement.

When you protrude your jaw, you are rolling more of your lip onto the reed. You "cover" more of the reed and dampen the higher overtones...This makes low notes speak very well, but your high notes will suffer.

When you retract your jaw, your lip "covers" less of the reed allowing the higher overtones to speak more easily because the reed vibrates more freely. These are the ones you are looking for (obviously, altissimo notes are the higher overtones).

I think Debber was trying to say this, but it wasn't very clear to me...I actually thought he was saying the exact opposite, but if she is referencing The Liebman book, Dave is explaining the same thing I am.

 

[Debber]

I actually thought she was saying the exact opposite, but if she is referencing The Liebman book, Dave is explaining the same thing I am.

Yes, thanks swperry, however the OP wanted the regular pitch, NOT the altissimo.....

PS My passport states male

 

[swperry1]

Sorry for the gender mistake...corrected in my post.

I am not trying to confuse or be contrary; All I am saying is that for lower notes cover more of the reed, higher notes cover less.

 

[Debber]

Sorry for the gender mistake...corrected in my post.

I am not trying to confuse or be contrary; All I am saying is that for lower notes cover more of the reed, higher notes cover less.

Ok, thanks for the clarification! And to the OP: I'd recommend to get Dave's book!

 

[Bubba06]

Ok, thanks for the clarification! And to the OP: I'd recommend to get Dave's book!

I'm sorry, who's book?

-Bubba-