[Kristof]

Since it seems to be a bit lost in the René Guénot / Albert Douchet thread, I thought I add it here in the c soprano section!

This beauty is mine since about a week. I found it on the site of the German "Saxophon-Service". It's nickle-plated with a gold-ish bell on the inside. There are some tiny scratches and little dents but all in all it's a really fine instrument. The first c sopranos by Douchet & Cie. are in the catalogue from 1934 so that's the earliest date. With a serial number 6965 it might be from the '40 maybe? Who knows?

The only issue is the mouthpiece. I got a shortened O. Linck 6* with it and now it plays perfectly in the key of B wich for the moment is ok, but I already wrote Pillinger and asked for a c-mouthpiece as I plan to play together with other instruments when we are allowed again. And I do not want to play in c# when everyone is playing in c. Or worse: in g# major as I will play with folk instruments and a very common key is g major/minor because of the French and German bagpipes.

I also made a short video … I still have to get back in shape as I haven't seriously played for several years so please be kind.
Testvideo on YouTube

Is there someone who can tell me more about the age of my instrument?

 

[bruce bailey]

It really looks like a High Pitch Bb soprano to me. The spacing of the low C lever and the fact it goes to high F and also the neck spacing. Is the total body length around 22" ( C) or 25" (Bb)?

 

[Kristof]

It really looks like a High Pitch Bb soprano to me. The spacing of the low C lever and the fact it goes to high F and also the neck spacing. Is the total body length around 22" ( C) or 25" (Bb)?

It's 23½ inch ... There is a picture in my post with a tape measure.

 

[soybean]

Interesting Horn.

 

[jazzbluescat]

........................

The only issue is the mouthpiece. I got a shortened O. Linck 6* with it and now it plays perfectly in the key of B wich for the moment is ok, but I already wrote Pillinger and asked for a c-mouthpiece as I plan to play together with other instruments when we are allowed again. And I do not want to play in c# when everyone is playing in c. Or worse: in g# major as I will play with folk instruments and a very common key is g major/minor because of the French and German bagpipes.

I also made a short video … I still have to get back in shape as I haven't seriously played for several years so please be kind.
Testvideo on YouTube

Is there someone who can tell me more about the age of my instrument?

It's a cute little thing.

Re: playing in C# when everyone's in C? You can do it and get used to it. While in junior high school I did the bassoon part of Brigadoon on bari sax; playing in G#, D#, etc. was common...good times! LOL

 

[Kristof]

It's a cute little thing.

Re: playing in C# when everyone's in C? You can do it and get used to it. While in junior high school I did the bassoon part of Brigadoon on bari sax; playing in G#, D#, etc. was common...good times! LOL

Sure, but I actually bought a c sax to NOT have to transpose anymore.
I played alto and Bb soprano for years and tenor in a big band. It was my main instrument when I studied to become a music teacher. But than I switched to opera singing and I am doing that professionally for about 15 years now. Enough roles to learn and daily voice training.

I am getting too old to practice in strange keys 😂

 

[jazzbluescat]

Sure, but I actually bought a c sax to NOT have to transpose anymore.
I played alto and Bb soprano for years and tenor in a big band. It was my main instrument when I studied to become a music teacher. But than I switched to opera singing and I am doing that professionally for about 15 years now. Enough roles to learn and daily voice training.

I am getting too old to practice in strange keys 😂

How's the intonation? When playing in e.g. C# are you in tune, or does it sound/feel out of tune(and you're adjusting)?

 

[Kristof]

How's the intonation? When playing in e.g. C# are you in tune, or does it sound/feel out of tune(and you're adjusting)?

The intonation is good. I didn't try to play in C# (too much crosses ... feels like walking over a graveyard) but in all "normal" keys I played everything is fine.
I also checked it with a good tuner (just to be sure, but my hearing is quite good) and it's only a few notes like the open c#' that I have to adjust my embouchure a bit.
It's just exactly ½ tone off 🤷🏼‍♂️ but I hope to fix that with the right mouthpiece.

 

[vries1]

As Bruce says, looks like you are out of luck with a high-pitch Bb soprano.

For reference, I measured my C soprano and it is just under 22". Adding 6% length would take half a tone off... exactly like you found on your Douchet.

 

[milandro]

Steyn Zaandam are very common in the NL, often in HP indeed ( I have had a tenor). Clarinets in HP are not rare too.

Many people say that they can play HP with a shift of 1/2 ( in fact I have seen peeople trying to pass a HP baritone for a E instead of Eb).

I hav my serious doubts on the practicality of this.

Johan Jonker (NL) also a member here, compiled an interesting way to measure the distance between toneholes to determine pitch

 

[milandro]

this is what happens with an HP soprano played against an instrument with normal pitch

 

[Uwe Steinmetz]

Hi Kristof, this is unfortuantely a High pitch Bb Soprano in A=465 HZ soprano. I have a very similar from Guenot, exact same length (a lovely player) from the same period and I play with my regular Bb soprano mouthpiece on it. A=465 HZ is fine though, it means you were right, it is a Soprano in concert "H". I keep these instruments because I perform with old church organs and some are pitched like the military brass bands in West Europe in this pitch. Some earlier High pitch instruments have a lower pitch - I also have a high Pitch horn in 457HZ which works fine for tunings in 432 HZ etc. but is not compatible at all with modern pitch.

I keep these instruments for these special occasions. I am sure Duchstein would be able to give you a refund. C-Sopranos are smaller in length I have had several over the years and they ar all around 22 inch when keyed to low Bb.
Drop me a PM if you need more infos. All good wishes, Uwe

p

 

[Uwe Steinmetz]

...here is a side-to-side comparison with my C-Soprano, again same period 1920s-1930s french built. You cans ee easily the differenc ein tone-hole distribution and the overall smaller dimension which also actually is fun to use with original C-Soprano mouthpieces. The high pitch sopranos work fine with regular Bb soprano mouthpieces for me.
Again, I would encourage you to speak with Duchstein, they are an outstanding repair shop with huge knowledge and great service, this mistake can happen and happened to a friend of mine as well who got a few "c-sopranos" from other stores and collectors which were indeed high pitched instead.

 

[milandro]

These, and other bands from Belgium and the Netherlands are not unlikely to be found around the internet.

I come across them pretty regularly in the NL

 

[Kristof]

Hi Kristof, this is unfortuantely a High pitch Bb Soprano in A=465 HZ soprano. I have a very similar from Guenot, exact same length (a lovely player) from the same period and I play with my regular Bb soprano mouthpiece on it. A=465 HZ is fine though, it means you were right, it is a Soprano in concert "H".

Hi Uwe, thanks for the answers.
I have to send it back. I really like the Instrument but I want to play together with others and don't have the money to buy yet another one 😕

 

[milandro]

@Kristof , I have a Keilwerth toneking IV for sale in the NL, you may want to come by to try it?

 

[vries1]

I think Kristof is looking explicitly for a C soprano. Kristof, I am afraid that such instruments are usually priced quite a bit higher than what you paid for the Douchet!

 

[Kristof]

I think Kristof is looking explicitly for a C soprano. Kristof, I am afraid that such instruments are usually priced quite a bit higher than what you paid for the Douchet!

True ... But it was advertised and sold as C soprano without any other information.
If they take it back I will ask them to put HP in their information to spare the next buyer this mess.

 

[milandro]

Oh well! A C soprano is a rare thing and would be difficult to be found , surely cheap. Lots of people out there see a short soprano and conclude, automatically, they have a C soprano.

Some time ago Matthews in EDAM had, if memory serves, a C soprano , but it is gone

Not so long ago Benedikt Eppelsheim had some made in China

Sax on the Web Forum

www.saxontheweb.net

 

[vries1]

Here's a more typically priced example of a real C soprano currently for sale in Dijon, France. It looks very nice, too.

http://www.cadencesmusic.com/instruments-occasion/en-ut/