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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got an SBA tenor in for a full overhaul and forgot it had a new and very substantial brass strengthening plate fitted to the underside which will most likely resist any attempt at being pulled down by anyone willing to give it a try.

The attached photo shows it along with a standard SBA crook for comparison, although a blind man could easily tell the difference!

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That is one substantial brace. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts after playing each neck on the same sax whether there is a perceptible difference in the tone with the brace added. The acoustic scientists claim that nothing on the outside of the tube has any significance with what happens with the soundwave inside the tube. However, folks like Rheuben Allen who designs and sells the necks below believes or wants us to believe that it does. Your picture reminded me of these.

 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Old Buescher tenors had a similar brace -- known as "man in the moon". It probably helps, but doesn't stop the neck from pulling down, just changes where it kinks at.
 

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Old Buescher tenors had a similar brace -- known as "man in the moon". It probably helps, but doesn't stop the neck from pulling down, just changes where it kinks at.
That's the bottom line. The crook will only ever be as strong as its weakest point, which will be any section of unsupported tube.

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Therefore the best way to prevent pulldown is to put the mouthpiece on the neck before you put the neck on the sax. AND, if you must adjust tuning, take off the neck/mouthpiece to do so. ALSO, make sure you have sufficient cork grease on the neck cork. Is that about right?
 

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Therefore the best way to prevent pulldown is to put the mouthpiece on the neck before you put the neck on the sax. AND, if you must adjust tuning, take off the neck/mouthpiece to do so. ALSO, make sure you have sufficient cork grease on the neck cork. Is that about right?
Putting the mouthpiece on the neck while it is off the sax is an excellent idea. That facilitates a pushing and twisting motion to move the mouthpiece up to the tuning mark. It also gives the player an opportunity to check the input pitch to tune the embouchure as well.

A well fit cork is also very important so that the mouthpiece does not need to be forced. When making tuning adjustments "on the fly" as you are playing and your sax warms up it would be impractical to take the neck of each time. Instead, a well fit cork that is sufficiently lubricated and using a twisting motion to readjust the mouthpiece should be safe and effective.
 

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Therefore the best way to prevent pulldown is to put the mouthpiece on the neck before you put the neck on the sax. AND, if you must adjust tuning, take off the neck/mouthpiece to do so. ALSO, make sure you have sufficient cork grease on the neck cork. Is that about right?
Sandy,
I don't know how schools or instructors have changed, back when I started I don't remember anyone that would attempt putting a mouthpiece on the neck when the neck was on the horn. Now as far as adjusting the mouthpiece that was done when the neck/mouthpiece was on your horn BUT players would have worked their cork so their mouthpiece was "snug" but not tight, making adjustments (when needed) very easy.
 

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If I have to adjust the mouthpiece when the neck is on the horn I always grab the neck with my left hand close to the mouthpiece and then twist the mouthpiece with my right hand. That way it's virtualy impossible to pull down the neck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Its strength is also its weakness - an accident caused the crook to bend just above the tenon as you can see from the photos:

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From my experience, if you are going from no brace to a substantial like you have you will definately hear a change. I have super 20 tenor with a silver neck that seemed to bent by looking at it. My repair guy put a solid plate along the side, sort of the first picture from jbtsax, only only on the side. It looked real are deco, but it killed the sound, really dead - dull. I sent it to Oleg, and he put a small rod from the base of the tenor straight across, only soldered at two points. the sound returned.

smf
 

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A another thread with sound caused by vibration implications.......

Those who like the empiric approach execute a blind test where you ( aided by an assistant who will do this for you and hand you the saxophone) with closed eyes (and nose because you can smell it) play a neck with some clay or plasticine stuck to the outside of the neck or a clean neck. Publish on SOTW. Thanks

Incidentally the braces in jbtsax pics are very beautiful!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm wondering if it's worth replacing this chunky plate with a proper Selmer style one, or maybe just leaving it without one at all.
 

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Ouch! That had to hurt.
 

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Why doesn't someone make a sheet brace like on the Monette trumpet and many other modern trumpets?

I wonder if a trumpet shop will do custom brace?

Anyone have any experience with that?
 

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FWIW, I do believe that was Chris' custom brace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
FWIW, I do believe that was Chris' custom brace.
This chunky brace was someone else's doing - I'm more than happy to have good reason to remove it and definitely won't be resoldering it back on. They probably had good intention in making and fitting it but it ended up doing more harm than good (and it looks **** ugly to boot!).
 

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FWIW, Karsten Gloger removed the standard Borgani brace from the neck of my Jubilee and replaced it with a Conn brace. He also removed the octave key saddle from atop the neck.
 

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and.........what kan you honestly tell us about the sound influence of all of this? I am honestly interested in a qualified opinion by a person whom I respect and who I believe would apply scientific observation to things in general
 

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I also have a Silversonic tenor neck that developed two small cracks (I couldn't see them but could see a few tiny bubbles coming out when I submerged it in water, plugged the end and blew in). My tech put a silver patch on both sides. The neck also has a small patch on the top near the mouthpiece where there was a microphone at one time. I really didn't find any change other than the sax playing better (just easier to great the great tone) once the repairs were complete. It didn't find it made the sax sound any less bright or dark really. I have always thought a brace of some sort would have been a good idea on this sax.
 
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