[TenTenTooter]

Hello everyone, I've got a tenor, NO leaks, that warbles from middle A through low D. It can be fixed with more air and a looser jaw, but it's difficult. I striped the horn down and found that the removable joint had no type of anything to seal it, it was just a dry fit with the clamp over it. It's been glued now and I need to put the horn back together, but do you think this is the cause of my warbles? A leaky removable joint seems a bit far away to cause a warble on middle A.

Thanks,
-Scott

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

Yes, it is too far down to affect so many notes
How about something jammed in the bore?
How about a loose ligature screw?

"NO leaks" That is a pretty rash statement, unless a sax goes very well.
How about failed soldering of one of the octave vents?
How about a leaking neck tenon even though it is a tight fit?

 

[TenTenTooter]

There shouldn't be any leaks, it's been through the hands of three techs in Southern California all of which were stumped by the horn. It's been put back together and the warbles are still there. I'll spend Monday with it going over it inch by inch and try to figure it out.

 

[jbtsax]

What brand of tenor is it and what mouthpiece are you using?

Did any of the tech's check the sax with the J.L. Smith neck leak isolator?

A problem from A down to D could be a weak spring that allows a key to open slightly from the pressure of the sound wave. The side Bb and C, the fork F# or even the G# key (if the closing arm from the F# is out of adjustment) are all possibilities. None of these leaks would show up with a leak light.

This can be diagnosed by having someone close these keys tightly with their fingers while you play the notes that "warble". Let us know if you find a solution.

John

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

"No Leaks". Just a possibility...

I once worked on a professional, almost new flute, which had some rather odd acoustic effects present.

The problem turned out to be a pin-prick hole right through the tubing, with no obvious reason; possibly just a flaw in the metal.

I detected it by filling the flute with water, putting that water under pressure to fill the leak, emptying it, then filling the flute with gentle air pressure to hear/see where the air bubbled through the water that was still present.

It is rather unlikely that such a hole would have been detected in a sax by using a leak light.

I have also experienced a similar tiny hole right through the timber of a clarinet, detected the same way.

I guess a magnehelic could have helped to track them down, but a magnehelic is pretty difficult to use right through a tapered instrument such as sax.

 

[Nobby Keys]

I remember years ago someone telling me that in a sax shop they had a similar problem, they dropped a golf ball in the bell of the sax and the problem went away!

Worth a try.

 

[Grumps]

Did any of the tech's check the sax with the J.L. Smith neck leak isolator?

Amen to that. I had a new tech repad and refit a fixer-upper horn and when I immediately pointed out a problem, he claimed it was my set-up. A newer tech with the above product from J.L. Smith confirmed the leak at the neck connection.

So, did any of those three techs check your neck connection?

 

[clarnibass]

John, why don't you explain your very sophisticated method of solving the Smith neck tool's problem of not being able to tighten it while inside the socket, but also not being able to easily insert it when tightened

 

[TenTenTooter]

The neck conection is tight and seals well. Soon I'll tweak some spring tensions and see if that helps.

-Scott

 

[TenTenTooter]

Spring tensions didn't help so after a while I got frustrated and took the horn completely apart, checked all the places where there could have been leacks through old solder and touched up spots that looked questionable, then I put it back together key by key checking everything with both a feeler gague and a leak light. That did it, the horn plays great now. I'm glad to finally get this old horn playing properly.

 

[Swingtone]

Sorry to butt in off-topic, but the proper spelling of the first word in your title is "effects," with an "e," unless you're using it in the emotional context (i.e., affective domain).

The SOTW grammar and usage police march on!

 

[jbtsax]

Spring tensions didn't help so after a while I got frustrated and took the horn completely apart, checked all the places where there could have been leacks through old solder and touched up spots that looked questionable, then I put it back together key by key checking everything with both a feeler gague and a leak light. That did it, the horn plays great now. I'm glad to finally get this old horn playing properly.

So are you saying that the sax is an old Martin with soldered on toneholes? If so, that information would have been helpful in the initial question. In other words it would affect the way people responded to your question to good effect. (How am I doing so far, Swingtone?)

 

[TenTenTooter]

No, actaully, It's an old Selmer. I checked the solder around the neck reciever, neck tenon, both octave pips, and the bow to bell connection. One of the pips was leaking I believe.

-Scott

 

[jbtsax]

Thanks for the clarification. Those leaks are hard to run down sometimes. I look at the pips etc. under magnification and if the solder looks the least bit suspicious they automatically get re-soldered just to be sure.

John

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

A goood examkple of how an intial post can be misleading.... "NO leaks"

Glad to see my suggestion, of a leak, in post 2 was on course...

"How about failed soldering of one of the octave vents?

 

[jbtsax]

Way to go Gordon, you nailed it in the second post. Pretty good diagnosis for someone who "doesn't even shave yet" on this "misinformation" site. :twisted:

John

 

[clarnibass]

A goood examkple of how an intial post can be misleading.... "NO leaks"

Glad to see my suggestion, of a leak, in post 2 was on course...

"How about failed soldering of one of the octave vents?

:thumbrig:

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

Way to go Gordon, you nailed it in the second post. Pretty good diagnosis for someone who "doesn't even shave yet" on this "misinformation" site. :twisted:

John

True.
How many people in this site? 4000? It seems to me that if a person condemns so many people as all ignorant, then it says a lot about the person doing the condemning.

 

[Saxdaddy]

Man, look what I have been missing.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

It was mostly on Delphi.