[Bluesblaster]

And a decent mouthpiece doesn't necessarily mean an expensive one!

I am a newbie myself having only started in February 2007. Not knowing any sax players for advice I figured I would buy inexpensive equipment to get my feet wet and then upgrade quality after I started to show some improvement. (In retrospect I am not so sure this was a good strategy but it seemed logical at the time) I bought an inexpensive Alpine tenor sax, a strap, a box of Rico #2s, and a new mouthpiece of unknown origin. (I don't recall the manufacturer and it has no markings) I paid $20.00 for the mouthpiece.

After 2 months I still had issues with a lot of unwanted noises and getting proper response from the sax. I particularly had trouble hitting notes requiring the use of the octave key. My sax instructor played the horn and we determined that the horn works fine, it was all me. My instructor advised that Rico reeds can be inconsistent and recommended that I switch to Vandoren #2-1/2. I still did not show any real improvement with the reed change. My instructor then advised that I should invest in a better mouthpiece and ligature. After some research I decided to order a Yamaha 5C mouthpiece ($29.00) and a Rovner Dark Ligature ($15.00) from Musicians Friend. The mouthpiece came in yesterday and I used it for the first time in practice last night. They sent the wrong ligature so I had to use my old ligature.

What a difference! After only a few minutes getting used to the new mouthpiece I was playing all the high notes for the rest of my lesson. The horn was responsive and sounded sooooooooo much nicer! Smooth and mellow. If you've looked at mouthpieces you will see that they can run rather pricey and I am sure that if we all progress we will get to the point where we will be needing a high end mouthpiece to further refine our tone. Even the folks at Yamaha advised that at some point I should look at a Vandoren mouthpiece as they offer greater variety. (That's pretty upstanding for a manufacturer to recommend another manufacturers product! Well done Yamaha!). Hey if you can swing for an Otto Link or similar by all means go for it. There a big gap between $29.00 and $229.00 so there must be a reason why so many sax players on SOTW identify mouthpieces of this caliber in their equipment profile. But at the moment the $29.00 Yamaha 5C is working fine for me as a beginner mouthpiece. After 2 wasted months I feel like I have finally started sax instruction.

Bottom line, I've made the mistake for you so you don't need to make it yourself. If you are just getting started do yourself a big favor. Skip the generic mouthpiece the music store will throw in the case and get your self a decent mouthpiece.

 

[Topsax]

A decent mouthpiece really is important!

And a decent mouthpiece doesn't necessarily mean an expensive one!

Bottom line, I've made the mistake for you so you don't need to make it yourself. If you are just getting started do yourself a big favor. Skip the generic mouthpiece the music store will throw in the case and get your self a decent mouthpiece.

I really agree with your assessment here.. I have learned from experience the hard way. My actual experience comes from selling saxophones and hearing customer feedback. The Ultimate Topsax Alto ($399.00) which I sell on eBay has a very rich and vibrant sound. BUT, it really suffers when played with the factory mouthpiece that ships with the horn. Shame on me! To be honest I just didn't realize there was such a problem. All the horns are inspected, play tested, and adjusted prior to shipment. However, ALL of the techs that test the horns have a decent mouthpiece. OOPS! Just for fun we really play tested a couple of factory mouthpieces. They were terrible! Many of the higher notes were just not there. We changed reeds, we changed players.. but, it made no difference.

So like `BluesBlaster` I have a bottom line too.. I recently ordered some mouthpieces from Phil Barone, Selmer, Yamaha, and KANG (Germany).. The Selmer C*, Yamaha 4-C, and KANG Student all sounded really smooth on the Topsax. They all made the horn play the way it is supposed to.. The Phil Barone "New York" mouthpiece was impressive on the PRO horns.

For the time being I am recommending to my customers to look into the Yamaha 4 or 5-C student mouthpiece when buying a Topsax from my current inventory. This mouthpiece is inexpensive and gives the customer a nice edge in learning the Topsax.

When the Series II Topsax comes out in the fall I am actually going to ship either the KANG or Yamaha with the product.

Cheers,
Bob Campbell
http://legendsax.com

 

[MPowered]

If I were a band director teaching beginner students, I would insist on them all having Selmer C* or Morgan ProTones. Yamaha 4Cs aren't very good pieces. I would save Vandorens as an option when a student wanted to start shaping his sound, but I would be more likely to point them to the direction of Morgans. But that's just me.

 

[goldhorse]

I started out with a Yamaha 4C that came with my YAS475 (those were the days). It wasn't that bad a mouthpiece compared to those that come with those $200 sax they sell on the net, but I quickly changed to a Meyer 5MM after only a few months. It's not as cheap as a Yamaha 4C, but it's not that expensive either and it could get you a long way before shifting over to more expensive mouthpieces. But by that time you at least already have an idea of what to look for. Some even stick with it for the rest of their playing years. Good buy I should say.

 

[Bluesblaster]

Hi Topsax, Empowered and Goldhorse

Thanks for your feedback. This is such a nebulous area and it is so important, especially when you are a new player and can easily get frustrated to the point of throwing in the towel. For all I know if I had a decent mouthpiece back in the sixth grade I might not have had such an horrible time taking sax lessons. (I quit band after 2 months in complete disgust with the resolution that I will never play an instrument). I am now 45 and trying again.

Questions for Empowered and Goldhorse

You both mention the Yamaha 4C. What is your opinion on the Yamaha 5C? Similar? Can you provide some amplification of what it was about the Yamaha 4C that you didn't like? With all of the mouthpieces on the market I am real interested in figuring out what it is that an experienced player looks for in a mouthpiece, or more to the point what it is they don't like.

 

[goldhorse]

Questions for Empowered and Goldhorse

You both mention the Yamaha 4C. What is your opinion on the Yamaha 5C? Similar? Can you provide some amplification of what it was about the Yamaha 4C that you didn't like? With all of the mouthpieces on the market I am real interested in figuring out what it is that an experienced player looks for in a mouthpiece, or more to the point what it is they don't like.

I haven't tried the Yamaha 5C, so I can't give any opinions there. I went from the 4C to the Meyer 5MM. My reason being that I wanted more. More volume, more tonal flexibility, a richer sound. I had no idea then which mouthpiece to go for, so I asked our local store what they could recommed. The owner asked me, what kind of music do you want to play? Classical or Jazz. I told him Jazz. He brought out the Meyer, I tested it, and ended up buying it. (His suggestion for Classical music was the Selmer S80). While there is no single answer as to what is the best mouthpiece for you, the reason being that it will depend on what kind of sound you want to produce. Your tastes might even change as you go along, so a suitable mouthpiece now might no be suitable in the future. Also, there is the question of the shape of your mouth, lips, and it does vary from one person to another. At first it might not be a good idea to change mouthpieces every so often, not until your embrochure is stable. You have a decent mouthpiece, stick with it for a while. The "itch" to try out a new mouthpiece varies from one person to another. Some I know have settled on the 4C for years before going on. But once you have a stable embrochure and know what kind of sound you are looking for, then find a store that is willing to let you try out different mouthpieces and choose the one that you are most comfortable with. Also, even if you have narrowed down your choice, it's always best to test out several of the same model and tip opening, just like the sax itself, there are some subtle differences from one mouthpiece to another. That is why it's better to go to a shop than buy online, although it might be cheaper. I'll always be willing to chip out a little more for something I can test out myself.

 

[Bluesblaster]

Hi Goldhorse;

Thanks for getting back. I was a little surprised to see others on this site recommend trying out a mouthpiece before you buy it. I makes perfect sense but I didn't think any store would let you put a mouthpiece in your mouth and then put it back in the box and on the shelf. I'll have to keep that in mind if/when I buy a new one and make sure I sanitize it.
Thanks again!

 

[Swingin' Cat]

The Hite Premier is another excellent choice for either alto or tenor.

 

[Canadiain]

And a decent mouthpiece doesn't necessarily mean an expensive one!

I am a newbie myself having only started in February 2007. Not knowing any sax players for advice I figured I would buy inexpensive equipment to get my feet wet and then upgrade quality after I started to show some improvement. (In retrospect I am not so sure this was a good strategy but it seemed logical at the time) I bought an inexpensive Alpine tenor sax, a strap, a box of Rico #2s, and a new mouthpiece of unknown origin. (I don't recall the manufacturer and it has no markings) I paid $20.00 for the mouthpiece.

After 2 months I still had issues with a lot of unwanted noises and getting proper response from the sax. I particularly had trouble hitting notes requiring the use of the octave key. My sax instructor played the horn and we determined that the horn works fine, it was all me. My instructor advised that Rico reeds can be inconsistent and recommended that I switch to Vandoren #2-1/2. I still did not show any real improvement with the reed change. My instructor then advised that I should invest in a better mouthpiece and ligature. After some research I decided to order a Yamaha 5C mouthpiece ($29.00) and a Rovner Dark Ligature ($15.00) from Musicians Friend. The mouthpiece came in yesterday and I used it for the first time in practice last night. They sent the wrong ligature so I had to use my old ligature.

What a difference! After only a few minutes getting used to the new mouthpiece I was playing all the high notes for the rest of my lesson. The horn was responsive and sounded sooooooooo much nicer! Smooth and mellow. If you've looked at mouthpieces you will see that they can run rather pricey and I am sure that if we all progress we will get to the point where we will be needing a high end mouthpiece to further refine our tone. Even the folks at Yamaha advised that at some point I should look at a Vandoren mouthpiece as they offer greater variety. (That's pretty upstanding for a manufacturer to recommend another manufacturers product! Well done Yamaha!). Hey if you can swing for an Otto Link or similar by all means go for it. There a big gap between $29.00 and $229.00 so there must be a reason why so many sax players on SOTW identify mouthpieces of this caliber in their equipment profile. But at the moment the $29.00 Yamaha 5C is working fine for me as a beginner mouthpiece. After 2 wasted months I feel like I have finally started sax instruction.

Bottom line, I've made the mistake for you so you don't need to make it yourself. If you are just getting started do yourself a big favor. Skip the generic mouthpiece the music store will throw in the case and get your self a decent mouthpiece.

So what we learn from this is:

A: The mouthpieces that generally come with a horn are not up to much, buy a respected brand name piece to get you started.

B: All cane reeds are inconsistent, Ricos, VanDs, doesnt matter. Ive had as much luck with Ricos (Royals and Plasticovers) as any other brand. Save the money for an expensive mouthpiece later on, or more lessons, or an overhaul.

C: The choice of ligature is not going to make any noticable difference to 99.9% of the sax playing population.

Good Luck!

 

[3 Olives]

If I were a band director teaching beginner students, I would insist on them all having Selmer C* or Morgan ProTones. Yamaha 4Cs aren't very good pieces. I would save Vandorens as an option when a student wanted to start shaping his sound, but I would be more likely to point them to the direction of Morgans. But that's just me.

I agree, but 30% of the kids in the public schools would want something better and 70% couldn't afford a Pro Tone.

 

[Nolaman]

Mouth Piece Issues

I too am a beginner, well sort of to be honest ( a 40 plus year lay off). I been reliving childhood with lessons. My current sax is a Bundy II alto with a Selmer #3 mouthpiece and Rico #2 reeds. My instructor praises me for good tone production; states it's good and he likes it. I am happy to receive a good rating, but I want better. I've read the post by Bluesblaster and the replies. I at times also experience a strain in producing high notes and going from high notes to low (i.e. high A to a low "G"). I feel after reading this information much maybe attributed to mouthpiece or reed or both. Please provide any information.

 

[saintsday]

I agree, but 30% of the kids in the public schools would want something better and 70% couldn't afford a Pro Tone.

A Protone is less than $40.

 

[Carl H.]

Don't forget the Kessler student pieces. They play pretty well for the money too. I had a student get a NY student model for jazz and marching. When I test played it I almost offered to buy it off of him. It was a nice piece for the money ~ $30.

 

[steakboy]

The Hite Premier is another excellent choice for either alto or tenor.

i'll admit a bias toward j&d hite pieces, but i think this is a good (if often overlooked) option. the hite premiere is in the $30 ball park. it's a great mouthpiece for the money.

 

[markVIinNorway]

If I only knew about good and bad mouthpieces when I started playing sax as a 11-year old (Im 37 now) things could have been so much easier... or if my instructor knew!.. I started playing a markVI in TERRIBLE condition with a selmer C* mouthpiece. I still remember the struggling I had with the horn and mp in all those years at school...
I bought the very same horn from the school at a flea market for 150 USD a few years ago ;-)...... so I got my "revenge"..hehe (its a -62 mark VI now in exellent condition after spending 1500 usd on total overhaul)

 

[Canadiain]

A Protone is less than $40.

We are talking about parents who buy reeds one at a time here, they wont want to spend $anything on a mouthpiece when there is one in the case already.

 

[BYOB]

Ignorant parents, much.

 

[Committed]

"Yamaha 4Cs aren't very good pieces."
I will second that!

I am actually a little ticked how as a beginner(with Tenor) I was having much difficulty getting consistently good sound out of a Yamaha YTS-23 rental-especially on the low end, to find out it was all about the stock Yamaha mouthpiece. Maybe some are better than others as far as QC issues go perhaps, but after putting on an Otto Link STM 6, the difference is extreme! I feel like I blow effortlessly accross the whole range in comparison now. I just did the swap last night and thought what an appropriate thread here. It doesn't have to be expensive, but definately try a different one so at least you don't remain ignorant on whether it is you, the horn, or a crappy mouthpiece. If it wasn't a rental, I would enjoy taking a hammer to this one.