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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do yall make of this? He claims a major investment company that managed to buy one of the most important and respected saxophones brands is now trying to get hold of the "Adolphe Sax" name, which Karel has the rights to now.


Hard to imagine there's that kind of big business bullying happening in saxophone manufacture.
 

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Sounds like he decided to play big boy games and didn't research the playing field well enough to know what was involved. Or maybe he's better at the game than this video's "aw shucks" vibe lets on.

To cobble together an analogy: if you want to play pro football don't run out onto the field without knowing how the game is played, and without learning the skills and wearing the protective equipment required.

It's not like he had some deeper claim to the name. He set out to play the same game the corporation wants to play. He got there first, but he didn't stake the claim well enough given how the rules are set up.

Or maybe this is just playing for sympathy when in fact this next step of the business, and coping with this kind of a threat, were all part of a plan sketched out long ago.
 

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Sounds like he decided to play big boy games and didn't research the playing field well enough to know what was involved. Or maybe he's better at the game than this video's "aw shucks" vibe lets on.

To cobble together an analogy: if you want to play pro football don't run out onto the field without knowing how the game is played, and without learning the skills and wearing the protective equipment required.

It's not like he had some deeper claim to the name. He set out to play the same game the corporation wants to play. He got there first, but he didn't stake the claim well enough given how the rules are set up.

Or maybe this is just playing for sympathy when in fact this next step of the business, and coping with this kind of a threat, were all part of a plan sketched out long ago.
Wow. That’s your take after watching this video? Thinking that leads to Analogies like yours are why all the cobblers and small businesses can’t operate on a fair playing field. We’re not allowed to talk politics, but things are rotten.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It sounds to me like the typical big company strategy: tie the little guy up in the legal system until he goes bankrupt; then enjoy the spoils of your greed!
I just can't see the saxophone market being big enough to interest big investors like that. Do they really think they'll make a fortune once they have the Adolphe Sax name...?

Anyone have a guess who this company is? He said they recently bought one of the most important and respected saxophones brands. I'd think that would have to be one of the big 4, no?
 

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Wow. That’s your take after watching this video? Thinking that leads to Analogies like yours are why all the cobblers and small businesses can’t operate on a fair playing field. We’re not allowed to talk politics, but things are rotten.
Yes things are rotten, and I'm certainly open to the idea that the relevant laws are more or less improper, but don't confuse this with the simple proposition of opening a business, offering value, and getting squashed. Buying the Sax name was a bold large-playing-field move, and an example of the same sort of coldly calculated business chess-game move as what is now being done to him.
 

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I just can't see the saxophone market being big enough to interest big investors like that. Do they really think they'll make a fortune once they have the Adolphe Sax name...?

Anyone have a guess who this company is? He said they recently bought one of the most important and respected saxophones brands. I'd think that would have to be one of the big 4, no?
Selmer Paris did sell the majority of shares to investment fund Argos Soditic. Reuters article link.
 

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I just can't see the saxophone market being big enough to interest big investors like that. Do they really think they'll make a fortune once they have the Adolphe Sax name...?

Anyone have a guess who this company is? He said they recently bought one of the most important and respected saxophones brands. I'd think that would have to be one of the big 4, no?
Hasn’t Keilwerth been circling the drain for a while even after Buffet bought them?
 

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I can certainly sympathize with the guy and see the larger point about corporate bullies coming in and taking whatever they want in spite of the law. But wasn't the original Sax company bought by Selmer in the 1920s? This guy has since started his own, completely unrelated company and simply used and trademarked the old name from a company that no longer exists. This would be like a new car company calling itself Hudson in spite of the fact that Hudson was absorbed by AMC decades ago. Could some violin maker just as easily trademark and use the name Stradivarius? Then some big, established violin company come in and try to take that name for itself? So how did this guy end up with the Sax name to begin with? Who did he buy it from? Regardless, he probably stands to make a fortune selling it on to the new buyers.
 

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Selmer Paris did sell the majority of shares to investment fund Argos Soditic. Reuters article link.
I has to be them. They made the "Adolphe Sax Limited Edition" in 2014 and surely want to secure the option to use that name again.
 

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I can certainly sympathize with the guy and see the larger point about corporate bullies coming in and taking whatever they want in spite of the law. But wasn't the original Sax company bought by Selmer in the 1920s? This guy has since started his own, completely unrelated company and simply used and trademarked the old name from a company that no longer exists. This would be like a new car company calling itself Hudson in spite of the fact that Hudson was absorbed by AMC decades ago. Could some violin maker just as easily trademark and use the name Stradivarius? Then some big, established violin company come in and try to take that name for itself? So how did this guy end up with the Sax name to begin with? Who did he buy it from? Regardless, he probably stands to make a fortune selling it on to the new buyers.
The rub is that they’re using the courts to exhaust the smaller company’s resources instead of just cutting them a check. Facebook is doing the same thing right now to a woman who owns the “meta” name instead of just using their billions to buy it from her they’re using the courts to bleed her dry and take it.
 

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It's most probably the investment fund that bought Selmer (see post #7 above) that's trying to 'kill' Karel's company with long running and expensive legal procedures. In my book that's a shame, but unfortunately the current World works like that.

We had a long thread here on the forum with all information about Karel's company and how he got the rights for that name (that thread was started in 2012 by Karel, the founder, who is also a member on SOTW):

But this thread seems to have disappeard from the forum since owned by the new owners. Karel contacted me about that in March this year (since I was a moderator here in the past), but I also couldn't find it anymore and advised him to contact the new owners @VSadmin directly about that. Seems they didn't do anything because the thread is still not available, which is a shame in my book too (and one of the reason why I didn't want to 'work' anymore as moderator for the new owners of this forum).

Are the forum owners also afraid of the new Selmer owners and did the thread disappear because of that?
 

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Sounds a bit similar to Nissan Motors vs. Nissan Computer where a small computer company, Nissan Computers, who happened to claim the Nissan.com website years before the large car company, Nissan Motors, was interested in having a web presence. In that case, the small company did get to keep the website, so hopefully there will be a similar result here (although small businesses and ordinary people have the deck stacked against them when facing up against large companies or wealthy people in the courts, as mentioned in the video).
 

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As someone is using P. Mauriat, the name of a French muzac pianist, to sell saxophones, one can imagine any creative misuse of the Adolphe Sax name. Laser weapons, peanut butter crackers, whatever… 🤔🙃😇
Oh, and by the way, the inventor of our beloved horn was born “Antoine-Joseph Sax”. Sounds less … martial than Adolphe. But OK, he couldn’t know by then.
 

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I just can't see the saxophone market being big enough to interest big investors like that. Do they really think they'll make a fortune once they have the Adolphe Sax name...?
John, normally investment funds buy (big) companies to make big profits. What they generally do is reducing operational costs by firing people (management) and optimice logistical processes (making them cheaper). When that's done they will sell the full company (or they split it up in smaller parts which they sell individually) for way more money than they bought it for (and they probably think to make more profit if the name Adolphe Sax is a part of the deal).

I've seen that happening with one of the companies I worked for, it's a common strategy of investment funds. To me it looks like the same will happen to Selmer.

But wasn't the original Sax company bought by Selmer in the 1920s? This guy has since started his own, completely unrelated company and simply used and trademarked the old name from a company that no longer exists.
Lydian, Karel made a YouTube video about that some years ago (shared on SOTW before):
Regardless, he probably stands to make a fortune selling it on to the new buyers.
It doesn't look like that to me. I think Karel just wants to stay in business with his own Adolphe Sax & Cie company.
 

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It's most probably the investment fund that bought Selmer (see post #7 above) that's trying to 'kill' Karel's company with long running and expensive legal procedures. In my book that's a shame, but unfortunately the current World works like that.

We had a long thread here on the forum with all information about Karel's company and how he got the rights for that name (that thread was started in 2012 by Karel, the founder, who is also a member on SOTW):

But this thread seems to have disappeard from the forum since owned by the new owners. Karel contacted me about that in March this year (since I was a moderator here in the past), but I also couldn't find it anymore and advised him to contact the new owners @VSadmin directly about that. Seems they didn't do anything because the thread is still not available, which is a shame in my book too (and one of the reason why I didn't want to 'work' anymore as moderator for the new owners of this forum).

Are the forum owners also afraid of the new Selmer owners and did the thread disappear because of that?
this
 

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It's most probably the investment fund that bought Selmer (see post #7 above) that's trying to 'kill' Karel's company with long running and expensive legal procedures. In my book that's a shame, but unfortunately the current World works like that.

We had a long thread here on the forum with all information about Karel's company and how he got the rights for that name (that thread was started in 2012 by Karel, the founder, who is also a member on SOTW):

But this thread seems to have disappeard from the forum since owned by the new owners. Karel contacted me about that in March this year (since I was a moderator here in the past), but I also couldn't find it anymore and advised him to contact the new owners @VSadmin directly about that. Seems they didn't do anything because the thread is still not available, which is a shame in my book too (and one of the reason why I didn't want to 'work' anymore as moderator for the new owners of this forum).

Are the forum owners also afraid of the new Selmer owners and did the thread disappear because of that?
The new owner is maybe the investment company Argos Soditic
 

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An investment company like Argos Soditic is only interested in profit. You will see the quality of Selmer going down by the minute now (they are already made for the biggest part in China).
 

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The new owner is maybe the investment company Argos Soditic
The new owner of this forum is VerticalScope Inc. (you can find that at the bottom of this page).
The (probably temporary) new owner of Selmer is Argos Soditic.
 

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An investment company like Argos Soditic is only interested in profit. You will see the quality of Selmer going down by the minute now (they are already made for the biggest part in China).
Please keep to the facts. Are you suggesting that Selmer-Paris horns are now made in China?
 
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