[Morph1590]

Hi guys,


Sorry a simple one - if I move the slider to the RIGHT as I look at my saxophone, does that decrease or increase the key height of the front F?


I want to Flatten my front E, which way do I move the slider?! Sorry, I probably should be able to figure this one out.....

Thanks

EDIT: Apologies (again), I've figured it out. I move the slider to the LEFT as I look at the instrument to decrease the venting. Thanks. Mods feel free to delete this thread!

 

[saxoclese]

I have found that on some models because of the "mechanical design" moving the "slider" completely one direction or the other makes very little difference in the F opening. On these it is often necessary to do some key bending to close the key opening which unfortunately can introduce some "lost motion". In my experience the tone and response of front F is acceptable with a lower key height while front E is not as "forgiving" when vented in that manner.

 

[turf3]

It's all a balancing act amongst high G, front F#, front F, and front E. Of my instruments some prefer more and some prefer less opening.

The intention of the sllder is to prevent lost motion, but some degree of lost motion is probably unavoidable here. None of my current instruments has the slider design, so they all have some lost motion. No biggie.

I think soem people go too far in the quest to eliminate all lost motion, ending up with suboptimal key heights as a result. I would rather have the key heights where they need to be and a bit of lost motion. Some of my horns I always have to readjust key heights when I get them back.

 

[1saxman]

It is extremely handy to have the palm E be pretty close in tuning/response to the upper register in general because it can used in so many passages. Therefore while you can limit its opening with the front F key to correctly vent for altissimo, you have to make sure that when the palm E is played, it is open enough for the proper voicing. Fortunately this is usually easy to do. One thing to watch for is you do need a slight air gap between the palm E arm and the lever from the front F key, to insure that the palm E is free to close securely. You should check this on any sax new to you and after it is worked-on because its a common mistake by those who think they have eliminate all air gaps in the action.

 

[turf3]

It is extremely handy to have the palm E be pretty close in tuning/response to the upper register in general because it can used in so many passages. Therefore while you can limit its opening with the front F key to correctly vent for altissimo, you have to make sure that when the palm E is played, it is open enough for the proper voicing. Fortunately this is usually easy to do. One thing to watch for is you do need a slight air gap between the palm E arm and the lever from the front F key, to insure that the palm E is free to close securely. You should check this on any sax new to you and after it is worked-on because its a common mistake by those who think they have eliminate all air gaps in the action.

I think you actually mean "Palm F". Yes, I have found this set so tight that once the high F pad settles a bit it leaks slightly. Like you, I always check it and I usually have to sand off a bit of cork to make SURE the F pad fully closes.

 

[saxoclese]

As an aside while we are on this topic, my friend and mentor Ralph Ursulich at Summerhays Music in Orem, Utah invented and patented a new front F key that when pressed one way provides the full opening for high F and high E using that fingering, and a smaller opening for when the front F is used to play altissimo G and G#. Front F altissimo G key for saxophone The patent application also includes a short history of this key in the development of the saxophone.

 

[whaler]

High G doesn’t speak well on either of my Selmers if it’s too open. It seems any more than a 16th of an inch and it splits.
Since I don’t use front E I worry more about the high G.

 

[Morph1590]

Thanks all. I'm not having too many problems with altissimo (well...no more than usual anyway), it's just the front E is taking some effort to voice in tune. If I don't "lip" it down, it's way sharp.

High G doesn't speak well on either of my Selmers if it's too open. It seems any more than a 16th of an inch and it splits.
Since I don't use front E I worry more about the high G.

What do you use for F#, G fingerings? I usually use front F for both (for F# I play front F, A key, F key and Bb - the standard fingering), which makes it near compossible to play palm E. Would be interested in you lower altissimo fingerings!

 

[1saxman]

What is 'front E'?

 

[datsaxman]

Obvious from the thread. "front E" would be E with the high F key instead of the palm keys.

 

[1saxman]

So you're saying to play front F (with the C, sometimes called 'fork F') and add the side key E? I'll have to try it - never heard of it before.

 

[datsaxman]

I am saying front F by itself = G
Front F + RH F key = F#
Front F + C key = F
Front F + C + G keys = E

I thought maybe that last one is "Front E". Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Morph1590]

What is 'front E'?

Front E (as opposed to palm E):

Front F, A key, G key

https://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxophone-alternative

It is often a weak note on saxophone!

 

[mmichel]

Front E (as opposed to palm E):

Front F, A key, G key

https://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxophone-alternative

It is often a weak note on saxophone!

These days, I use front E almost exclusively. On my main horn (Keilwerth SX90R Tenor) both the front E and front F actually sound much better (fuller) than their palm key counterparts, and the altissimo G actually sounds best with the palm f vented completely.

On my alto and soprano, they aren't quite as strong, but I find the fingering so convenient that I nonetheless default to it.

 

[datsaxman]

Yes, on some saxes the front E and F are very different than on others!

 

[ptung]

turf3 is largely correct above ("largely" because I read through the thread quickly -- am posting while multi-tasking).

This is mostly for jazz and rock players -- not sure if it will apply as usefully for classical players (I don't work with many classical players): the easiest way is to set up the Front F by primarily making sure the E3 plays as openly as possible while also helping the high G to voice best. ***How that works out differs between makes and models.*** For example: Conn Chu and 10M tenors will often play best when the palm F barely cracks from the front F, so on Conns it is often a case of playing the E3 til it's *almost* unacceptable, and you will usually be getting a better and better G3 while lowering the venting. On Selmer and most modern, that is less the case.

If the F3 from the front F is more important to the player than the E3, then it would make more sense to balance that against the G.

You may also find that different mouthpiece/reed combos like a different setting better on the same horn, and things may also change as your playing evolves.

 

[saxoclese]

In classical playing the front F is used frequently when playing an F arpeggio, and the "front E" when playing a C or A minor arpeggio. It can also be used when outlining an F major 7th chord.

 

[Maddcow]

As an aside while we are on this topic, my friend and mentor Ralph Ursulich at Summerhays Music in Orem, Utah invented and patented a new front F key that when pressed one way provides the full opening for high F and high E using that fingering, and a smaller opening for when the front F is used to play altissimo G and G#. Front F altissimo G key for saxophone The patent application also includes a short history of this key in the development of the saxophone.

This really interested me and I checked out the patent description. Do you know if this mechanism has ever been implemented as an add-on? It's pretty ingenious.

 

[redrubin]

Can I steal this a little? Yamaha 875 Custom Soprano. How to set proper vent height on front F.Can only play E F with palm keys front will not speak.

 

[mmichel]

Can I steal this a little? Yamaha 875 Custom Soprano. How to set proper vent height on front F.Can only play E F with palm keys front will not speak.

How widely does pressing the front F key vent the palm F? Does it open completely?

Sometimes, when the front F is set to "wide open" the corked foot of the palm F hits the body before the front F key can fully depress the B key. This would indeed keep you from getting any sound out of the front F or E fingerings.