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Discussion Starter #1
I have a new-to-me mid 70s Bundy One Tenor with what my tech calls "floating pads". I wonder if these were original to this horn. How are they repaired? Anyone?
 

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Floating pads is normally used referring to a installation or repair technique whereby pads are put in the keycup with warm glue and then my closing the pad the pad finds its position in the keycup.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?273354-floating-pads-in

What your tech is calling, improperly, floiating pads is probably what is normally referred as Adjustapads

On the 70s Aristobundy horns, avoid the gold painted ones as they look terrible and are hard to sell and RUUUUUN away from the ones with the adjustapads (or whatever they were called). This was an stupid idea where they used rubberish pads on pivots that were supposed to self level. I think it lasted about a year.
All in all some of these horns can be good players. If you find one that has little use (remember they were meant for 12 year olds) you may have a good starter horn or one for your outdoor jobs.

READ this please (follow the link you will find pictures)

http://doctorsax.biz/adjusta_pad.htm

Selmer Bundys are decent horns. Perhaps the most remarkable in appearance are the ones with the gold metal flake finish.
They remind me of the Selmer Reference 54 with the brushed brass, antique matte lacquered finish.

While prepping the Bundy up for a repad, I thought I would document the original "Adjusta-Pads" the Bundy was equipped with. These pads have no leather, they are rubber or some variant. The rubber gasket has a metal disk underneath it and the rubber gasket and metal disk is mounted on a rubber 'post' which is glued into the key pan.
The pad is 'self-leveling' in that the rubber post that holds the gasket and disk allows them to pivot to match the tonehole.

 

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Adjustapads... [Shiver!!] IMO the concept is a total failure.
 

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Well Gordon, every long journey begins with the first step.

The problem is that it is often one of many missteps .

Some are correctable (like this but at great cost which involves changing all the pads for a horn that is probably worth less than the cost of the overhaul) and some are fatal.

Of corse the self leveling pads have been discussed many times before.

Unlike you I am not opposed to the toptones, perhaps because I see them very often here.

I have owned both toptone resoblade models and “ normal” saxophones with toptones.

Never felt the “ sponginess” that many complain about (even people whom have never actually ever played on a toptone saxophone complain).

The Saxwinkel in Deventer uses this pad to equip their standard overhaul and there are few more other shops around the world which use them.

The system used by Vibratosax is the poor relation of the toptone system.

Then you have the Codera system and then the system which I consider the apotheosis of this concept.

The Leopold Kondratov system or Variokleppenmechanik ( unfortunately we can no longer attach pictures or maybe just temporarily not)

Find it here , Kondratov defines this a Genial ( he is the inventor! :) ) einfach ( Genially Simple)

http://meinsax.de/portfolio/martin-tenor-sax/
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Oh, no! Another dud. Well, I'll just have to persevere. The horn felt good for a few minutes, then the "adjustapad" self destructed, i.e. started Leaking.
 

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I assume, however, that the special pads can be removed and replaced with normal ones. So that's probably what I would do, on a one by one basis as needed.
 

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It is unlikely that there will be many pads working , replacing them all is more expensive than the horn is worth
 

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Well, I think you are retired, and so, this sax may be the one to start your saxophone repair hobby with.

I have become a little more adventurous lately, and have removed the Eb/C keys, the side keys, the palm keys and the octave key, to clean the pads and the toneholes, and the rods, of some of my saxes.
Some of this modest level of work has actually resulted in improvements in the sound.

I have also glued a few pieces of cork to the feet of some keys. I keep the corks out of bottles of wine I open. I probably now have enough cork to completely redo every sax in the country!

I have not taken apart any upper or lower stacks - yet! And I would not attempt to bend any keys or roll out any dents.
 

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Probably Simso is referring to @Toptone pads, which I wouldn’t call “ floating pads” and if anything they are pivoting pad similar to the “ Adjustapads”



There are many whom are against it and few dedicated fans.

Another group might be people like me (I have had several horns equipped with these pads) whom are not at all against it but wouldn’t necessarily want to have them on all saxophones.

Noise of the pad closing appears to be a problem on some lower pads at least.

Perhaps not all saxophones respond the same way.

The toptone resoblade (I had one and sold to Rhys) didn’t seem to be half as noise (it has been a while though) as in this video






 

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I have a new-to-me mid 70s Bundy One Tenor with what my tech calls "floating pads". I wonder if these were original to this horn. How are they repaired? Anyone?
Pull out all the old goofy pads and replace with a good quality conventional leather/felt/carback set of pads.
 

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Once again the question being...unless you do the repad yourself, is it WORTH paying a tech to do that on a Bundy I ?

Even doing a home-job repad is gonna run a minimum of $150+ in tools and materials if one does not already have the tools and materials.

But as a labor of love, maybe....
 

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Those old Bundys can sing though - the Bundy II maybe not so much, but I remember a video done of a comparison between many different altos at Roberto's in NYC, and the Bundy killed! Better than a couple of the Mark VIs. It's SOTW'er matkat:

https://youtu.be/mTCF6CkFpfs
 

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Yes, true !.... I didn't mean to dis' 'em, they blow very well and sound great. I have respect for the Bundy I, they are built really well.

I guess my point was solely, from a resale perspective, an owner is gonna take a pasting should they go for a full repad then decide they are just gonna sell it instead of playing it...
 

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Of course the original posting was some months ago, but I want to insert my $0.0002:

I think the discussion of whether the value of the instrument is exceeded by the cost to refurbish it is an indication of a problem in the way we see saxophones; for too many of us the concept of buying the thing to play it has gotten polluted by "investment value". Now those of you who buy and sell instruments for income can step aside, because my comments aren't aimed at you; you guys have to make more on the horn than you put in. That's fine. I am not criticizing y'all in the least.

But the majority of sax players in my opinion should give only a cursory thought to whether the instrument "is worth less than the cost to repair". If it is not a total piece of junk (like those weird Indian fake saxophones that only go down to low B), and doesn't require a total $$$$$ rebuild to even function, I think it is completely in order to consider doing a full repad on a Bundy tenor. It will play reasonably well when done, so you won't have wasted your money. No, you won't get out of it what you put in to it, should you decide to sell it soon, but I submit that you should not care.

If you pay $300 for a Bundy in basically OK condition that needs new pads, and you pay $500 for a basic repad, you have spent $800 on a reasonably good playable instrument. You can probably do better if you scour the world. Let's say you could get the same degree of quality for $500 instead of $800. Certainly if you are trying to flip the horn for profit, you didn't do well, but what if you keep the horn for 20 years? Then you've spent $15 a year more than you might have done. Big deal.

Heck, half of us have extra horns that we hardly ever play. I've got $2000 worth of sopranos, $6000 worth of bass sax, an extra $500 alto, and a $4000 alto flute that hardly ever see the light of day. Compared to that, someone spending a couple hundred bucks more than the bare theoretically possible minimum seems like small potatoes.
 

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Generally I am in your camp here, and am usually a critic of the 'you will have invested way more than the horn is worth' argument. Because, as you say, at the end of the day the investment has given you basically what you were after: a particular model of horn all set up and playing the way a sax is supposed to be. So I would not really actively dissuade anyone from doing this.

So, 75% of the time I concur. But 25% of the time the criticism is actually apropos, IMHO; there are some models which are just kryptonite on the used market, and the Bundys are one of them (from a resale value point of view). Which is too bad.
Ironically folks will jump all over a cheap, janky new asian horn in a heartbeat (and pat themselves on the back for being such a keen buyer) while running for the hills when a perfectly serviced Bundy is presented to 'em.
Go figure.

If you pay $300 for a Bundy in basically OK condition that needs new pads, and you pay $500 for a basic repad, you have spent $800 on a reasonably good playable instrument. You can probably do better if you scour the world.
But you wouldn't really have to 'scour' very far at all, and you probably need go no further than a few hundred miles. Because there are a good half dozen better models which jump to mind which can be had for under 8 bill$ and are typically readily available. So, even in terms of an instrument investment, it isn't the best use of your $ or energy; and it isn't difficult to spend that $ more wisely.

None of this matters one lick, of course, if you are1) intent on keeping the horn, 2) were just curious about how this particular model performs when up to full snuff (since maybe 10% of all Bundys in the world are ever brought up to full snuff) 3) had been thinking about dabbling in home sax repair or even 4) eventually likely to gift it to someone who would not have had the resources to buy one him/herself.

In instances/contexts where one can remove all market considerations (one could certainly become philosophical and argue the market is just one big construct, anyway), then go for it. You will have done the instrument and any future player a favor by ridding it of those failed pads....
We are then are into the zone of Labors of Love (which, incidentally, there are far, far too FEW of in this day and age).

I am all FOR Labors of Love.
 

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5) It has sentimental value, perhaps handed down from Grandad.
 

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So, 75% of the time I concur. But 25% of the time the criticism is actually apropos, IMHO; there are some models which are just kryptonite on the used market, and the Bundys are one of them (from a resale value point of view). Which is too bad.
Agreed on both the economics and fallacy of investment/worth, and Bundy IIs being a badge of shame but shouldn't be. With an Aristocrat heritage, and righthand bell keys, they really should have a better reputation, but just don't. I played one with the adjusta pad floating pads, interchangeably with MVIs and [then new] MVII's, 23's, Kings, Conns - it measured up, and that's just the facts, even if we don't want to believe it. As sentimental and eccentric as I am, and as much as I love myth busters, I can't bring myself to own a Bundy II, much less play one out. And I kinda hate myself a little for feeling that way...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well, Thanks! for such a deep, even philosophical, thread! Since I first posted. the Adjustapad Bundy, after a brief toot,has remained in it's case. I've spent a good deal of time practicing on my other two "normal pad" Bundy Ones. Love these horns! The Adjustapad model has very little notage on it, is pristine, has the same great sound. Think I'll bring it out and give it another go. Maybe it will need some "adjusting". :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well, I finally brought it out, after many months and I am delighted! Somehow, it adjusted! Plays great! Did a gig with it last week and it shined, not to mention it’s pristine lacquer finish.
 
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