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When you do this test---what, if anything do you hear?

  • A change in the tone color (timbre)

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • A change in the intensity (loudness)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A change in both the tone and intensity

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • A change but you can't identify which it is

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No change in either note

    Votes: 11 64.7%
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
To see if changes in the vibrations of the wall material have any noticeable effect upon the sound or tone quality of the saxophone as perceived by the player, please try this quick test and post your results:

-Play low G then high G at forte.

-While holding each note, grip the neck firmly with your free hand just behind (but not touching) the mouthpiece.

-Grip the neck for a few seconds and then release holding the note as steady as possible.

-Repeat this several times on G in both octaves, and listen carefully to the sound.

-Record what you hear in the poll.



Thank you

John
I'm not an acoustics scientist, but I play one on Sax on the Web. :)
 

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I tried it on my alto. At first I thought there was a difference. Then I realized that I was also gripping the octave assembly. I gripped from underneath, not touching the octave key, and the effect went away.


No difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good observation Hakukani! That would mean the vibration affecting the sound heard by the player includes the vibration of the neck octave key. I'm going to test this by removing the neck octave key and putting a small piece of tape over the octave vent for low G. Perhaps not having the hand completely around the tubing does not inhibit the vibrations enough to hear a difference.

John
 

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Even when I was touching the octave key I noticed no difference. (My saxophone is rather new, though, so perhaps as a sax ages the key vibrates more)

No difference in either note.
 

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John, you really are a martyr to acoustics ;) I promise toi try the experiment properly tomorrow or the next day. It's interesting. And I always applaud the man who goes out and does it rather than goes out and reads it ;) Good luck. :)
 

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Didn't notice a single change in either timbre, loudness, or any other identifiable thing.
 

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Should we put what horn etc. we're using as well, just for information gathering sake? I used a LA Sax (B&S) Chicago Jazz Series Alto, with the neck that came with it.
 

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jbtsax said:
Good observation Hakukani! That would mean the vibration affecting the sound heard by the player includes the vibration of the neck octave key. I'm going to test this by removing the neck octave key and putting a small piece of tape over the octave vent for low G. Perhaps not having the hand completely around the tubing does not inhibit the vibrations enough to hear a difference.

John

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I was thinking more that there was a slight timbre change because of pressing the pad more into the tone hole. I'm not sure though...
 

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martysax said:
It caused me to play sharp and honk.


Can you please give a detailed account of this experiment - I'm sure we could all learn something;)
 

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nobhead1 said:
Can you please give a detailed account of this experiment - I'm sure we could all learn something;)
I'm actually trying a different experiment on stage tonight with an electric blooze band. I'm having corned beef and cabbage dinner, after pizza and amusement park for lunch, and after the IHOP breakfast I just had.;)

The drummer and bass player are sitting ducks for this one.:twisted:

It's a good thing they banned smoking in bars in Mass. That is, until there's a good reason to make smoke.:shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
hakukani said:
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I was thinking more that there was a slight timbre change because of pressing the pad more into the tone hole. I'm not sure though...
That also could be checked by touching only the neck octave key and pressing down on the pad. On my silver super balanced Selmer Alto with a Rousseau mouthpiece, I did notice a change in the color of the sound when the neck was tightly held.

John
 

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hakukani said:
I tried it on my alto. At first I thought there was a difference. Then I realized that I was also gripping the octave assembly. I gripped from underneath, not touching the octave key, and the effect went away.


No difference.
Perhpas there is a mechanical fault... the octave vent does not fully close without help.
 

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I suggest that you record the experiment from a few feet away, and listen back before making a judgement. Just placing your free arm between your right ear and the horn will cloud your perception of what is going on.

In fact, have someone else record it and play them back to you without telling you which is which. It is called a blind study, and is the only generally accepted practice for scientific research.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The arm could easily be held under the neck away from the path of the soundwave to the ear. Read also the title of the "test"--- it is to measure the perception to the player (as he/she is playing the instrument).:)

John
 
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