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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, just recently got a Yanagisawa AWO20 about 2 weeks ago. For the last 3 days I've been monitoring acid bleed under my lacquer at the palm keys and body brace
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and was wondering if anyone can give me some advice.

Im a technician based in South Africa and its gonna cost me a fortune to send it back to Dawkes to have them send it back to Yanagisawa :cautious:. I really love this horn and have been reading serval forums and threads on how to potentially clear up the acid bleed.

Should I arrest the acid bleed now or wait it out till it "stabilises" and if so how would you approach the repair?
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well, it is really minimal

the acid bleed many never ever go any more than it is(or not) there is no way for you to know it.

Acid bleed are a fact of life, sometimes theyare there sometimes they are not, they are not visible at the time the horn is made and finished.

If you “ clean “ the spot where it is you will be left with another sort of defacing , again it will be minimal and you may be able to touch up the lacquer.

But is it worth it?

Probably not. I understand you spent good money but I think you may be better contacting Dawkes to talk about a part refund and then forget about it. It may never be more than this. One day your horn wil have scratches and dings and you will see this thing in perpective. Now this is all you can think about and it is sad, its a beautiful horn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
well, it is really minimal

the acid bleed many never ever go any more than it is(or not) there is no way for you to know it.

Acid bleed are a fact of life, sometimes theyare there sometimes they are not, they are not visible at the time the horn is made and finished.

If you “ clean “ the spot where it is you will be left with another sort of defacing , again it will be minimal and you may be able to touch up the lacquer.

But is it worth it?

Probably not. I understand you spent good money but I think you may be better contacting Dawkes to talk about a part refund and then forget about it. It may never be more than this. One day your horn wil have scratches and dings and you will see this thing in perpective. Now this is all you can think about and it is sad, its a beautiful horn.
I appreciate the advise, will keep on monitoring it, it also arrived with a few scratches so I'll definitely opt on the partial refund.
 

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“ few scratches" which I should imagine must be incredibly small if I take the acid bleeding as a measure of defects.

If this horn came in an unopened box the acid bleeding was probably there from the beginning and developed unseen but if the box was opened (hence the “ scratches”) then should have been picked up by the shop.

Yanagisawa is next to perfection when it comes to the way they do things and yet, it can always happen. Again even simply handling you horn you will “ scratch “ it but again they will be your scratches not “ theirs”.

As it is you could , almost invisibly , remove the lacquer in a very very thin strip around the “ rib” and then clean the metal underneath but then the metal would be unprotected so, don’t look at it, it is also on a little visible spot.
 

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YOU got a Yanagisawa AWO20 about 2 weeks ago - may I assume new? If so take the maker to task via whatever means available to you. Acid bleed beneath lacquer - well there ain't no cure.
 

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I appreciate the advise, will keep on monitoring it, it also arrived with a few scratches so I'll definitely opt on the partial refund.
I bought a new Selmer Super Action 80 II alto that had acid leak. I was lucky enough to be in the US and so was the store. The store replaced it but shipped it back in a huge box without the case. They just wrapped the sax in bubble pack and use a box large enough for small person to fit into. Eventually got the case sent too.

If a partial refund is offered, that would seem fair. Or, maybe they know how to work with Yanagisawa so that you don't send it back to the UK but directly to some place closer. I personally don't look at acid leak as 'normal' though it does happen but it should be viewed as an exception, not the rule. But the partial refund is likely meant to offset the reduced resale value you'll probably incur if you or someone else decides to sell it.
 
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It’s a non-issue to me.

Beyond that, what if you send it back and get a cosmetically perfect instrument that doesn’t play as well?

What matters?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
“ few scratches" which I should imagine must be incredibly small if I take the acid bleeding as a measure of defects.

If this horn came in an unopened box the acid bleeding was probably there from the beginning and developed unseen but if the box was opened (hence the “ scratches”) then should have been picked up by the shop.

Yanagisawa is next to perfection when it comes to the way they do things and yet, it can always happen. Again even simply handling you horn you will “ scratch “ it but again they will be your scratches not “ theirs”.

As it is you could , almost invisibly , remove the lacquer in a very very thin strip around the “ rib” and then clean the metal underneath but then the metal would be unprotected so, don’t look at it, it is also on a little visible spot.
Unless you plan to keep the horn on a shelf, dings, dents, scratches and lacquer wear are an eventuality. I know you bought it new and were expecting more, but as you said, you love the horn. And as I often say, you don't play the shine.
Yeah I know you should see my other horn😆 my 62 has been through life and yeah it just sucks that it had to happen on a new WO20 and not my 62.
 

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Minimal issue - if it plays better than you expected - keep it. You can always notify Yanigasawa (and the seller) so there is a benchmark in case it gets unbearable, but much worse will happen over the years if you play it regularly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It’s a non-issue to me.

Beyond that, what if you send it back and get a cosmetically perfect instrument that doesn’t play as well?

What matters?
That is my fear at the moment because this is the best playing W020 out of 6 that I've tried. Im not too worried if its cosmetic but I've been taught that it is detrimental to the brass's health as it could spread through the whole horn.
If someone could please clarify If this is myth or not cause I'm non the wiser.
 

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That is my fear at the moment because this is the best playing W020 out of 6 that I've tried. Im not too worried if its cosmetic but I've been taught that it is detrimental to the brass's health as it could spread through the whole horn.
If someone could please clarify If this is myth or not cause I'm non the wiser.
No, it won’t spread over the entire horn. Notice that acid bleed occurs at the edges of parts that are joined by solder. That acid bleed is literally excess flux that was under the edges of the part when it was soldered to the body. It kept the finish from bonding there, and that is why you see the defect now. FWIW, you will also see - with time spent playing the horn - that the finish wears away at the touches for the palm keys and side keys. Visualize that wear as proof that you are playing the horn, rather than sitting ‘round and judging its cosmetics.

The finish is more at risk if you live near salt water (ocean), yet there is little that one can do to avoid it there. Using a finish protectant like Meguiars will help seal the finish and keep it shiny - just like protecting the finish on a new guitar or car.

Enjoy your new horn. Those are great instruments.
 
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In his bench review of Yanagisawa baris, Stephen Howard recommends "nipping it in the bud" if the flux bleed happens early in the sax's life.


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In his bench review of Yanagisawa baris, Stephen Howard recommends "nipping it in the bud" if the flux bleed happens early in the sax's life.


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"I'm often asked if these spots should be dealt with. I think it's safe to assume that if they've been there for any great length of time it's unlikely that they'll spread - but if they pop up within the first few years of a horn's life then it's perhaps wise to nip them in the bud."

I'm all for bud nipping, so forgive me if I didn't see it, but what was his recommendation for action?
 

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While the Yany's horn is top notch quality, their lacquer quality is not at that same level. OP if you join the Facebook Yanagisawa Group, there is a long post about the acid bleed issue and many users reported the similar issue there.
 

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That is my fear at the moment because this is the best playing W020 out of 6 that I've tried. Im not too worried if its cosmetic but I've been taught that it is detrimental to the brass's health as it could spread through the whole horn.
If someone could please clarify If this is myth or not cause I'm non the wiser.
It will never spread to the whole horn, it not that acid bleed is like potato blight .

It is tyny droplets of flux or may even be water trapped under the lacquer, which deposited there (and didn’t dry ) in your case it is minimal and may neve ever get any ,more than that. It’s not a disease.
 

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It will never spread to the whole horn, it not that acid bleed is like potato blight .
I love that analogy.

It is tyny droplets of flux or may even be water trapped under the lacquer, which deposited there (and didn’t dry ) in your case it is minimal and may neve ever get any ,more than that. It’s not a disease.
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Fixing flux bleed is straightforward: remove the lacquer in the affected area, clean it thoroughly, polish, then spot lacquer the area. The adjacent joint must be fully cleaned which can include adding solder there since there's often a gap where the bleed is occurring.

This one certainly could be done spreading, but on such a new horn I wouldn't bet on it being stabilized yet.

Trombone and trumpet communities share this woe and it's common among other sax makers.
 
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