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Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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I wonder why that is, you seem to be playing it more like a clarinet, ie angle down at almost 45 degrees. maybe the problem is your strap, but I think if you work on getting the angle right, your playing will get better.
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Arguably 2 of the best jazz alto players out there do it differently. Phil Woods and Dave Sanborn.
My suggestion is to get comfortable, rather than worry about whether log(x) = log
on how you're holding the horn.
My suggestion is to get comfortable, rather than worry about whether log(x) = log
on how you're holding the horn.
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Arguably 2 of the best jazz alto players out there do it differently. Phil Woods and Dave Sanborn.
My suggestion is to get comfortable, rather than worry about whether log(x) = log on how you're holding the horn. Not clear to me that it makes a big difference unless you've got it upside down.
My suggestion is to get comfortable, rather than worry about whether log(x) = log
on how you're holding the horn. Not clear to me that it makes a big difference unless you've got it upside down.
Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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Very odd. For me to hold the horn away from my stomach I have to bend my head backwards
That is good advice generally, though when troubleshooting sound problems (which neither Phil Woods or Dave Sanborn suffer from) then I believe it can be time to look at the very basics of orthodoxy, such as embouchure, breathing, posture etc. If you are playing like either of those guys, then don't worry how you hold the horn!Arguably 2 of the best jazz alto players out there do it differently. Phil Woods and Dave Sanborn.
My suggestion is to get comfortable, rather than worry about whether log(x) = log
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after receiving instructions and having tried what should be working, if it doesn't work for you, and you prefer doing something else ...do it.
A great Dutch saying says that one has to be " rowing with the oars that you have been given", a bit like playing the hand that you have been dealt .........after all it is what one does with it that counts.
I have published this recently an SOTW. Jimmy Giuffre was a clarinet and a saxophone player. Curiously, on tenor sax and also on baritone, he adopted a playing technique which was more related to clarinet playing ( he was a master at both) than it was to saxophone (more evident on tenor playing).
True you are not yet a genius player as he was but he wasn't always a genius and started somewhere too.
in this video you will see both Baritone and Tenor sax (he had the neck of the tenor bent upwards to fit his playing style) and Clarinet.
I don't know the way you are built and the way your natural posture is or your teeth. Any of this or all of this might be a good reason to deviate from the accepted standard playing position.
A great Dutch saying says that one has to be " rowing with the oars that you have been given", a bit like playing the hand that you have been dealt .........after all it is what one does with it that counts.
I have published this recently an SOTW. Jimmy Giuffre was a clarinet and a saxophone player. Curiously, on tenor sax and also on baritone, he adopted a playing technique which was more related to clarinet playing ( he was a master at both) than it was to saxophone (more evident on tenor playing).
True you are not yet a genius player as he was but he wasn't always a genius and started somewhere too.
in this video you will see both Baritone and Tenor sax (he had the neck of the tenor bent upwards to fit his playing style) and Clarinet.
I don't know the way you are built and the way your natural posture is or your teeth. Any of this or all of this might be a good reason to deviate from the accepted standard playing position.
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Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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Wow, that is actually angled upwards. Nice player, although that's not a tone I (personally) would go for.
I agree that it's not necessary to use the standard neck position, provided that there is nothing that neither you nor anyone else important finds lacking with your sound. Whatever works, the end often justifies the means. But not always.
It looks to me like this guy is holing sax about a foot away from his stomach. I'm a little nervous about working on such a technique where I have to hold the instrument. i like the feeling of my fingers being free like on a piano.
Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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Don't forget, what he is doing means that the angle actually goes upwards, I wouldn't recommend that either.
However your fingers would be free anyway, it is the neck strap which takes the weight and the thumbs which guide the horn to the playing position.
Except with straight soprano, when the RH thumb takes some weight.
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He was great.
I learned so much about playing melodies, arranging, and how to listen.
His sound was so much like the human voice, and the way he played was so "real".
His soprano playing was fantastic too. He use to bring the sop to lessons alot. His clarinet playing was my favorite.
I studied with a few "heavys", but he was the most real. No bs, and we didnt sit there and just play over changes.
His lessons encompassed everything that brought music and life together as one.
I learned so much about playing melodies, arranging, and how to listen.
His sound was so much like the human voice, and the way he played was so "real".
His soprano playing was fantastic too. He use to bring the sop to lessons alot. His clarinet playing was my favorite.
I studied with a few "heavys", but he was the most real. No bs, and we didnt sit there and just play over changes.
His lessons encompassed everything that brought music and life together as one.
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Lutemann:
If you do it by the book, your sax is indeed about a foot (a little less should do) away from your stomach. I am basically repeating what Pete said, here, but try it this way:
Stand upright.
Bring the strap to a length so that the mouthpiece literally falls into your mouth when you gently push the sax forward with your right thumb.
The angle should be right (by the book) now, and your fingers are free, since they are not really carrying any weight (particularly so with an alto).
Your airstream should profit from this, since an upright position is always good for breathing.
If you do it by the book, your sax is indeed about a foot (a little less should do) away from your stomach. I am basically repeating what Pete said, here, but try it this way:
Stand upright.
Bring the strap to a length so that the mouthpiece literally falls into your mouth when you gently push the sax forward with your right thumb.
The angle should be right (by the book) now, and your fingers are free, since they are not really carrying any weight (particularly so with an alto).
Your airstream should profit from this, since an upright position is always good for breathing.
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What specific characteristics do you find unappealing about his tone?
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I've watched these vids and it seems to me that the camera angle + the placement of your music stand might be contributing to the problem? Whatever it is, your head position looks really uncomfortable and unnatural to me...like you are forcing your head back? I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but you might try experimenting with different placements for the strap ring? I can't imagine why the natural or normal angle would be impossible for you?
BTW: Here's another great look at Guiffre's bent sax neck. Definitely an original approach!!!
Mark...did he ever explain why he altered the neck like that?
BTW: Here's another great look at Guiffre's bent sax neck. Definitely an original approach!!!
Mark...did he ever explain why he altered the neck like that?
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My suggestion is to get comfortable, rather than worry about whether log(x) = log
Yes...and yes. I mean, quite seriously...does any alto player really play with the mouthpiece heading straight in, level ? Not most of whom I have seen. The neck of an Alto is the neck of an alto...if this were the intention of the instrument (or I should say if this were an utmost critical factor), then the neck of the Alto would have a different curvature. Matter of fact, the angle is often different on a modern neck than most older ones.
Certainly you don't wanna get into 'clarinet angle' because as has been correctly mentioned ad infinitum here...in MOST instances that's um, wrong. Blowing across vs. blowing "through", etc.
I think we have some over-thinking going on here...I mean, when we get people saying that the "correct" distance to hold the sax is this or that....the conversation sorta starts spinning away because, obviously, anyone can dig up a plethora of examples from great players which seems to contradict this. There's a guy holding the horn this way...sounds great. There's a girl holding the horn that way...sounds great.....
Your opening comment seems to indicate you are becoming more pleased with your sound...and the thing which is bothering you is that the mouthpiece angle in doesn't seem to be 'right'.
I guess...I would go back to Saxmusicguy's question...which probably should have been asked earlier in the thread:
What, specifically is your problem/issue/displeasure with your current tone/sound ? Or is it not tone at all...but something else (phrasing difficulty, attack, mouth fatigue, feeling of unnaturalness, etc) ?
Followup Q would be....is this then coming from the angle of mouthpiece into mouth, or from something else ?
Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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I agree, it looks odd. This would also explain why you would need to held the saxophone away from your stomach to get the mouthpiece at right angles.
Many do, I know I do, for what it's worth. I don't think you have to be exact, but it's useful to be approximate to heading straight in. As I've said earlier, if your sound is fine with it at a different angle that's great, this is only for people who are having problems with sound IMO.
So the fact that Jimmy Giuffre points his horn down, in order to use a more clarinet like embouchure, then that's fine because he sounds great.
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