Probably the C# tone hole is not closing. Use the leak light. Some horns have adjustment screws. On horns without them, you (meaning your repairman) will probably need to install or replace a bit of cork. Or bend a connecting lever. Or something. It's tricky.
Abbott Premier alto: Middle C stuffy
I've bent an Abbott Premier alto back into playable shape but the upper stack c is very stuffy: half the volume of the adjacent notes, muted, and it 'chatters' or wobbles at the start of the note. It's the only note misbehaving. Things look alright, but I'm a self taught repairman with three months experience so I don't know what else to look for except the next open pad. Is it open enough? Is the pad good, torn? Yes, it seems open enough and the pad looks good. What else could cause one dud note? I guess I'll just go over it in close detail righting wrongs as I go. There's a small dent in the neck. The neck/ body joint could be better. The mouthpiece might be mismatched. I haven't used a leaklight yet because all the notes except c are playing with a light touch. I'll just keep at it.
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Finger C#. Now depress the left middle finger. Two pads will close - the one under your finger, and another "two holes up". That one needs to seal whenever you depress the first, middle, or ring-finger of the left hand. Good luck. More problems surely await.I've bent an Abbott Premier alto back into playable shape but the upper stack c is very stuffy: half the volume of the adjacent notes, muted, and it 'chatters' or wobbles at the start of the note. It's the only note misbehaving. Things look alright, but I'm a self taught repairman with three months experience so I don't know what else to look for except the next open pad. Is it open enough? Is the pad good, torn? Yes, it seems open enough and the pad looks good. What else could cause one dud note? I guess I'll just go over it in close detail righting wrongs as I go. There's a small dent in the neck. The neck/ body joint could be better. The mouthpiece might be mismatched. I haven't used a leaklight yet because all the notes except c are playing with a light touch. I'll just keep at it.
It is probably a regulation problem: as JIve Dadson said, when you finger middle C, two pads close. The upper one is also closed by the first finger (but usually not by the ring finger, on this point I disagree with the previous post).
If the regulation between the first finger and this upper pad is correct but the second finger doesn't completely close this upper pad, middle C will sound stuffy but middle B and lower will sound OK.
Also: use a leak light (or a cigarette paper). It is absolutely necessary when you tinker on a horn.
If the regulation between the first finger and this upper pad is correct but the second finger doesn't completely close this upper pad, middle C will sound stuffy but middle B and lower will sound OK.
Also: use a leak light (or a cigarette paper). It is absolutely necessary when you tinker on a horn.
Appreciate the tips. I confess to wanting to play more than tinker and wishfully thinking I could. I'll get it back on the bench and follow up on your guidance. Obliged🙏 It sounds really great on the notes that are working and the action is smooth as grease.
Found the leak here:Finger C#. Now depress the left middle finger. Two pads will close - the one under your finger, and another "two holes up". That one needs to seal whenever you depress the first, middle, or ring-finger of the left hand. Good luck. More problems surely await.
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I think it's a little bit strange. A leak here would affect A and the notes below A --not C.Found the leak here:
That pad alone will have no effect on C. If it is too thick, it could keep the pad that I'm describing from closing.I think it's a little bit strange. A leak here would affect A and the notes below A --not C.
BTW, we never cleared up which fingering you are using. For this discussion, it doesn't matter. But you should use the side key fingering when you can. It is clearer and better in tune.
Oops. I had been working on the lower stack of my horn, and my brain misfunctioned. As you say, the C# opening only closes if the pointing finger or middle finger of the left hand is depressed.It is probably a regulation problem: as JIve Dadson said, when you finger middle C, two pads close. The upper one is also closed by the first finger (but usually not by the ring finger, on this point I disagree with the previous post).
If the regulation between the first finger and this upper pad is correct but the second finger doesn't completely close this upper pad, middle C will sound stuffy but middle B and lower will sound OK.
Also: use a leak light (or a cigarette paper). It is absolutely necessary when you tinker on a horn.
C can be finger by depressing the LH pointing finger and middle right hand side key (preferred), or the left middle finger alone.
One more thing: Don't expect to learn how to repair saxophones by asking questions. These are deep waters you are wading into. Start here:
Are we talking middle C on the staff or C2 for saxphone?
Yes, but the OP says that every note except C is fine --it would not be the case with what you describe. In fact when you finger regular C, 3 pads close: the highest is a small one and if you depress this pad alone (it is possible) you obtain a (rather sharp) C; the second one corresponds to bis B and the lowest, which is marked in post #6, corresponds to A (of course, "bis B" and "A" assume that B is also closed). If this lowest pad is too thick, closing the "bis B" pad would need an heavy pressure from the middle finger.That pad alone will have no effect on C. If it is too thick, it could keep the pad that I'm describing from closing.
BTW, we never cleared up which fingering you are using. For this discussion, it doesn't matter. But you should use the side key fingering when you can. It is clearer and better in tune.
Also: side C (i.e. B+the middle RH palm key) is very useful but can not always be substituted to the regular C. It is not always better in tune (for example, on my Buffet Crampon alto, medium side C is very flat; high side C is perfectly in tune).
An other possibility: the "B" pad (the one actioned by the first finger) may be too low. The key has a "foot", with cork on it, that contacts the body of the sax and prevents the key from opening too much. When this cork is too thick, the pad is too low and the sound of the note is muffled.
At rest, is the "B" pad lower than the "bis B" pad? If it is the case, you can sand the cork on the key foot of B.
At rest, is the "B" pad lower than the "bis B" pad? If it is the case, you can sand the cork on the key foot of B.
Fingering: Just the single finger depressing 'c' in the upper stack.That pad alone will have no effect on C. If it is too thick, it could keep the pad that I'm describing from closing.
BTW, we never cleared up which fingering you are using. For this discussion, it doesn't matter. But you should use the side key fingering when you can. It is clearer and better in tune.
I've noticed this and I'm trying to use side keys whenever workable. Thanks.
Is there any possibility, dear physicists, of this being influenced by the neck joint or reed? I discovered the importance of the reed by swapping a few and the effect was radical, more than I expected. Again, with apologies, I'm a self-taught beginner both to playing and to making corrections to the neglected instruments I've acquired because they were affordable.
Ah, thank you! I'll pore over this today.An other possibility: the "B" pad (the one actioned by the first finger) may be too low. The key has a "foot", with cork on it, that contacts the body of the sax and prevents the key from opening too much. When this cork is too thick, the pad is too low and the sound of the note is muffled.
At rest, is the "B" pad lower than the "bis B" pad? If it is the case, you can sand the cork on the key foot of B.
Thank you for articulating this. I'll study it carefully.Yes, but the OP says that every note except C is fine --it would not be the case with what you describe. In fact when you finger regular C, 3 pads close: the highest is a small one and if you depress this pad alone (it is possible) you obtain a (rather sharp) C; the second one corresponds to bis B and the lowest, which is marked in post #6, corresponds to A (of course, "bis B" and "A" assume that B is also closed). If this lowest pad is too thick, closing the "bis B" pad would need an heavy pressure from the middle finger.
Also: side C (i.e. B+the middle RH palm key) is very useful but can not always be substituted to the regular C. It is not always better in tune (for example, on my Buffet Crampon alto, medium side C is very flat; high side C is perfectly in tune).
Upper stack, middle finger 'c', the one I have come to expect to be the least problematic.Are we talking middle C on the staff or C2 for saxphone?
Ah, yes, I know. I've been watching and rewatching youtube videos for the past three months. At the same time, I wish to learn to play, which is really my only goal. My horns though are affordable rejects that others felt were not worth their resources to correct. I got them cheaply in money terms, but the expense is hitting me in time and patience to learn how to restore them to playing condition without the huge investment in specialized tools that I see in most of those videos. Local shop wants $75/hour and this is far beyond my means. So here I am and I greatly appreciate the tips and suggestions coming from SOTW. 🙏One more thing: Don't expect to learn how to repair saxophones by asking questions. These are deep waters you are wading into. Start here:
I have owned many cheap ebay, craigslist and pawnshop saxes. Fixing them comes with the territory and you really do not need special tools for most repairs. A rope light and a strong paperclip formed to hook needle springs and a hot glue gun are my special tools.
You don't really need to do a full overhaul or have $500 of tools to attempt fixing a few leaks or stuffy notes. Here are some things that will help, though:
- a leak light
- feeler paper (cigarette paper or the thin film from a cookie package) to slip under pads to see if they are sealing tightly
- understanding the logic of which touchpiece closes which keys
- examining the keys carefully to see if anything is out of alignment, bent, sticking, or if pressing one key is causing another to open a tiny amount, etc.
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