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My Middle School Clarinet players must be brilliant as many have been playing at least at A=432 for years. Some 6th grade purist have even gone to 420. :)
 

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The main problem with A=440 is that the power mains in the USA are using 60 cycles which often creates disonnance with bass instruments playing the note 'B' (or other notes). However, this is not the fault of the committee that chose 440. Instead, it was ignorance by the electrical engineers.
This is total nonsense - 60 Hz has been the electrical standard in the US since the 1890's. If there's a dissonance issue with some musical notes, blame it on the A=440 committee who didn't bother to talk to the engineers! :razz:
 

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My Middle School Clarinet players must be brilliant as many have been playing at least at A=432 for years. Some 6th grade purist have even gone to 420. :)

Unfortunately, my saxophones and flutes have decided to adopt aggressive European tuning at A=450. Kids are just so smart these days. :) :)
 

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Mind the BS galore! this first video has plenty!:faceinpalm:
He starts off with a good illustration of Poe's Law, but did you listen to it past 1:40?

420 was already popular for the 420 law on cannabis...
They decided to go for "432" because there was nothing associated to that number.
Notice that 3+2=5 and 4+2=6? It's a reference to 25 or 6 to 4, which PROOOVES the mind-expanding properties of A = 432. :colors:
 

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Well, you know, an octave is 2X the fundamental frequency. A perfect fifth above that is theoretically 3X the fundamental. The octave above that is 4X the fundamental frequency.

In equal temperament, an octave is still 2X the fundamental and two octaves is still 4X; an octave and a fifth is 2.996614...X which is 0.1% different from the theoretical 3X value - in other words, indistinguishable by normal ears.

Pi doesn't enter in here in any way shape or form. Are they suggesting that an octave and a fifth should be Pi times the fundamental, which would be really weird?

It would be really interesting for the mythical types to actually study some basic mathematics. There seems to be a conspiracy theorist mentality that every so often erupts into diatribes against the equal tempered scale (which, by the way, is the thing that enables music to be performed in different keys...) That's when we hear people making statements like "equal temperament ruined music" and similar BS.

And none of this has anything to do with the frequency of the reference pitch, which could have been chosen at any value, but was chosen to A = 440 Hz because it was the most similar to the largest number of instruments in use at the time. What if we had decided that a minute was to be divided into 100 seconds, or 50 seconds? The only reason 60 seconds in a minute was chosen way back when is that 60 is a number that is readily divisible by a large quantity of other numbers.

For that matter, the number "60" is an artifact of the decimal number system. If humans had had 4 or 6 fingers per hand/foot, things would have been totally different.
 

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This is total nonsense - 60 Hz has been the electrical standard in the US since the 1890's. If there's a dissonance issue with some musical notes, blame it on the A=440 committee who didn't bother to talk to the engineers! :razz:
There were no bass instruments that relied on electricity till the 1930s or 1940s. I assure you that a string bass, tuba, or bass saxophone playing the note B is TOTALLY UNAFFECTED by 60Hz power. Furthermore, what about Europe and Asia where the frequency of mains power is 50 Hz?
 

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There seems to be a conspiracy theorist mentality that every so often erupts into diatribes against the equal tempered scale (which, by the way, is the thing that enables music to be performed in different keys...)
Not quite accurate I think. Equal temperament allows music to modulate through different keys (I think that was Bach's point). You can still play in different keys with just or mean tone if the tune stays relatively in one key - depending on how easy it s may be to retune or re-intonate your instrument for each key. Easy on saxophones, brass, violins, voices but maybe not so easy on keyboard and fretted instruments. Although my wife's guitar has movable frets and her harpsichord has alternative black note e.g. for F#/Gb.
 

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Not quite accurate I think. Equal temperament allows music to modulate through different keys (I think that was Bach's point). You can still play in different keys with just or mean tone if the tune stays relatively in one key - depending on how easy it s may be to retune or re-intonate your instrument for each key. Easy on saxophones, brass, violins, voices but maybe not so easy on keyboard and fretted instruments. Although my wife's guitar has movable frets and her harpsichord has alternative black note e.g. for F#/Gb.
Right you are; I was oversimplifying.
 

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My Middle School Clarinet players must be brilliant as many have been playing at least at A=432 for years. Some 6th grade purist have even gone to 420. :)
Well you know, even though it's been some decades since middle school for me, when I pick up the soprano (I am primarily a baritone player) I sometimes find myself playing at A = 420 or so; and sometimes at A = 450 or so; sometimes within the same measure. Back to the woodshed for me!!
 

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There were no bass instruments that relied on electricity till the 1930s or 1940s. I assure you that a string bass, tuba, or bass saxophone playing the note B is TOTALLY UNAFFECTED by 60Hz power. Furthermore, what about Europe and Asia where the frequency of mains power is 50 Hz?
But...

If A is at 432, then B is about 484.9 Hertz (432 x 1.059463 x 1.059463).
3 octaves below that would be 484.9/8 = 60.6 Hertz.
So if there was a 60 Hertz hum in the sound system, beating with that low B. it would produce a throb of 0.6 Hertz, which may be uncomfortable for the listener, like driving fast with an open window in a modern car.

Ha! ;) :)
 

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Bah ! This A=432 nonsense is just a ploy by Yamaha, Yanagisawa & co. to sell more new saxophones.

If we have to change, why not just go back to the old Low Pitch: A=439 ?
 

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Bah ! This A=432 nonsense is just a ploy by Yamaha, Yanagisawa & co. to sell more new saxophones.

If we have to change, why not just go back to the old Low Pitch: A=439 ?
Secrets the manufacturers did not tell you:
Play in a cold room and a 440 sax will become 439.
Play in a colder room and it will become a 432 sax.
 

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Bah ! This A=432 nonsense is just a ploy by Yamaha, Yanagisawa & co. to sell more new saxophones.

If we have to change, why not just go back to the old Low Pitch: A=439 ?
actually the only brand which at the moment produces a A=432 horn is Borgani.

The music of the spheres makes balls turn :twisted:

 

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…So if there was a 60 Hertz hum in the sound system, beating with that low B. it would produce a throb of 0.6 Hertz, which may be uncomfortable for the listener, like driving fast with an open window in a modern car.
Yes Gordon! That is what I was trying explain: the unwanted dissonance caused by 60 cycle hum.
 

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…If we have to change, why not just go back to the old Low Pitch: A=439?
It's not going to change. I can garantee that. 440 is now standard pretty much everywhere. Yes, fiddle players like to play sharp for the effect, but 440 will still be the baseline (not bass line!) pitches are measured from.
 

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....snip....If you are interested in pitches no modern Western ears have heard take any music you'd like, import it into Audacity, and change the pitch to whatever your ear or heart desires. I'd venture to say that no lights will light inside your head when the pitch of A slips from 433 down to 432 Hz...
I'm not a proponent of 432, but pitch shifting in software causes audible (at lest to some of us) aliasing that detracts from the natural timbre of the tone. In other words - it's not a fair comparison. If you want to know what an instrument sounds like at 432, the only real option is to listen to it played at 432...as to the 432 debate, I too think it's mostly bunk. I feel the same way about 440 and perfect pitch too though. What's most important to me is that we play in tune with each other. I'm comfortable with any tuning that's harmonious...
 

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Yes, based but there are other issues...

Perhaps that is to tune with pianos, where the octaves are almost always tuned stretched. That is because the second overtone of any note is uncomfortably sharp, and clashes with the string which has that as its fundamental. The sharpness is because of the unavoidable stiffness of the string where it crosses the bridges.

I would have thought that violin tuning depended on where one chose to put one's finger. The strings are not stiff and very tight like piano strings are.
In a piano all the partials (harmonics) are sharp compared to the fundamental due to the stiffness/tension of piano strings.
The higher they are the sharper but also softer compared to the fundamental.
When I tune a piano I compromise all intervals to even out the enharmonicity
 

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He starts off with a good illustration of Poe's Law, but did you listen to it past 1:40?
yes you are right, I should have said that the first part only contains the BS that he then refutes (and that one shouldn't be deterred by that).

that's why the second video, which expanded and integrated the criticism with yet more information was of a better nature.

The " new age" ( hasn't it become old by now?) theorists are positively intruding in every aspect of our lives and have made a mess of many things.

Since nobody can give a negative proof , we cannot disprove their theories. Relativism is often also selective. It makes impossible to make a person see the logic problems of what they say.

Yesterday there was an interviewer interviewing a group of persons about their political choices.

Despite overwhelming evidence that their chosen candidate had made promises that he didn't keep and that he had behaved in a fashion contrary to their declared principles (moral and political) yet they supported him by say " who are we to judge?" while being very vocal to JUDGE the opponents.

All of this didn't seem to be a contradiction to them.
 

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But...

If A is at 432, then B is about 484.9 Hertz (432 x 1.059463 x 1.059463).
3 octaves below that would be 484.9/8 = 60.6 Hertz.
So if there was a 60 Hertz hum in the sound system, beating with that low B. it would produce a throb of 0.6 Hertz, which may be uncomfortable for the listener, like driving fast with an open window in a modern car.

Ha! ;) :)
Great solution. So somebody realised that if a system has a significant 60 Hz hum, then a great solution (instead of the expense of an electrical engineer to trace back the problem to a faulty earth or something) would be to get all the musicians in the world to retune their instruments and remake all their own recordings and recreate or remaster all existing recordings.

Pure genius :)
 

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except

There were no bass instruments that relied on electricity till the 1930s or 1940s. I assure you that a string bass, tuba, or bass saxophone playing the note B is TOTALLY UNAFFECTED by 60Hz power. Furthermore, what about Europe and Asia where the frequency of mains power is 50 Hz?
 
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