Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I found a Selmer marked saxophone at a local pawn shop and wanted to run it by you guys and see what you thought. Is this one of the semi-mythical transitional Mark VI-Mark VII horns from 1975? A Chinese fake? (who would even bother to fake a '75?) What is this strange beast?

See pictures attached.

The serial number of 235XXX should date it to around 1975.

View attachment 232766

The horn has what appears to be a standard Selmer Mark VII style engraving on the bell (there is a clear 'R' there; it's the phone blocking the lighting in the picture).

View attachment 232786

The horn is marked "Mark VI".

View attachment 232768

The neck appears to be a Mark VI neck.

View attachment 232770

The keywork is that of a Mark VII including the right hand pinky keys which are butterfly shaped.

View attachment 232772

View attachment 232784

The ring brace is that of a Mark VII.

View attachment 232772

The pads appear to be similar to those of a Mark VII with metal resonators.

View attachment 232774
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I have a 235,xxx Tenor Mark vi (it's definitely a vi) that I bought used in '79 for 850.00 It's a great horn, but it has some unusual characteristics. It has silver plated keys, and no engraving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
To my eye the engraving looks not quite right, the pinky table is too small for a 7 and too big for a 6, the neck doesn't look right and the pearls look the wrong shape and could be plastic. My call, a copy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,682 Posts
To my eye the engraving looks not quite right, the pinky table is too small for a 7 and too big for a 6, the neck doesn't look right and the pearls look the wrong shape and could be plastic. My call, a copy.
Also, neither the Mark VI or VII have the teardrop front F key, which this horn has.

That horn looks identical to this fake Mark VI that Sam Ash had up for sale recently. Serial number is 235K on this fake as well, maybe Sam Ash pawned it after they realized they were duped? They took it down as soon as we let them know it was fake, but we have screenshots. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Wkz10Cj4Lkg1qqW7WxdeUPfvWqcCXYzH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Also, neither the Mark VI or VII have the teardrop front F key, which this horn has.

That horn looks identical to this fake Mark VI that Sam Ash had up for sale recently. Serial number is 235K on this fake as well, maybe Sam Ash pawned it after they realized they were duped? They took it down as soon as we let them know it was fake, but we have screenshots. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Wkz10Cj4Lkg1qqW7WxdeUPfvWqcCXYzH
That looks like it. Same serial number and all. Unless they are just not bothering to change the serial number it made it from Florida to North Carolina in this time frame.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,452 Posts
Mark VII didn't start until 241,xxx. That's the earliest I've seen. I bought a 241xxx alto that a lady bought in highschool. Said she bought the Mark VII as soon as it was released. I've had VIs that had 240,xxx ... So the switch was either at late 240xxx or very early 241xxx.

Yes the one in the picture is fake fake fake fake fake.

Not a real Selmer.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,941 Posts
Seriously membership you need to wake up. This is a new member and their first post they were able to post really nice pictures. Second a very leading question about a Chinese fake to chum information out of the membership. Did any of you look at the pictures. The reflection in one is a well lit area and nothing in the reflection resembles a pawnshop. The other is on a nice black background cloth and a completely different phone in the reflection used to take the pictures. These are staged pictures and not something you would normally see in a pawnshop environment. Fake member and fake item until proven otherwise in my book.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Seriously membership you need to wake up. This is a new member and their first post they were able to post really nice pictures. Second a very leading question about a Chinese fake to chum information out of the membership. Did any of you look at the pictures. The reflection in one is a well lit area and nothing in the reflection resembles a pawnshop. The other is on a nice black background cloth and a completely different phone in the reflection used to take the pictures. These are staged pictures and not something you would normally see in a pawnshop environment. Fake member and fake item until proven otherwise in my book.
I think we established that it's a fake item and I appreciate the quick and definitive responses on that. As for a fake user...I'm not sure what this supposed grand conspiracy got me in the way of super-secret information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,682 Posts
Seriously membership you need to wake up. This is a new member and their first post they were able to post really nice pictures. Second a very leading question about a Chinese fake to chum information out of the membership. Did any of you look at the pictures. The reflection in one is a well lit area and nothing in the reflection resembles a pawnshop. The other is on a nice black background cloth and a completely different phone in the reflection used to take the pictures. These are staged pictures and not something you would normally see in a pawnshop environment. Fake member and fake item until proven otherwise in my book.
If he's going to the trouble to be a fake member, what's the point of it? Is he hoping one of us will try to buy this fake Mark VI off him via paypal friends and family? Is he just trolling us for fun?

I'm betting he's just a dude that wants to know if he found a good deal on a horn or not. I knew how to post pics on a message board before I joined SOTW from experience using a Texas Football board that uses the same software. It never hurts to be vigilant and I appreciate you looking out for us, but I just can't seem to guess what the scam would be if this dude were a fake.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
Joined
·
7,356 Posts
I'm betting he's just a dude that wants to know if he found a good deal on a horn or not. I knew how to post pics on a message board before I joined SOTW from experience using a Texas Football board that uses the same software. It never hurts to be vigilant and I appreciate you looking out for us, but I just can't seem to guess what the scam would be if this dude were a fake.
Yes, there is nothing what so ever to indicate this person is looking to move this horn. We should be pretty cautious with the personal attacks.

When we point a finger we've got three pointing back at us.

We've provided ample information to this new member and now they know not to purchase this horn.

Case closed.
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
28,922 Posts
Serial number is 235K on this fake as well, maybe Sam Ash pawned it after they realized they were duped?
Which would mean Sam Ash are committing a felony.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,682 Posts
Which would mean Sam Ash are committing a felony.
Well, there would have to be a lot more evidence in this case before I would make that conclusion. We don't even know if this is the same horn that Sam Ash had up for sale. Assuming it actually was the same horn, maybe Sam Ash sold it to the pawn shop saying "we accidentally bought a fake, take this off our hands" or something like that. Who knows the whole story, all I do know is that the horn in the pics is not a Mark VI or Mark VII.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,682 Posts
I think we established that it's a fake item and I appreciate the quick and definitive responses on that. As for a fake user...I'm not sure what this supposed grand conspiracy got me in the way of super-secret information.
Welcome to SOTW Brayburn. Hopefully you are indeed a real user and enjoy your time as a member on the forum, it's usually pretty entertaining over here.
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
28,922 Posts
Assuming it actually was the same horn, maybe Sam Ash sold it to the pawn shop saying "we accidentally bought a fake, take this off our hands" or something like that.
Exactly my point, that would be a felony.!

If you accidentally buy a counterfeit horn and then know it to be counterfeit the only legal recourse would be to notify law enforcement, not compound the issue by selling it on, knowing you are selling a counterfeit
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,941 Posts
If he's going to the trouble to be a fake member, what's the point of it? Is he hoping one of us will try to buy this fake Mark VI off him via paypal friends and family? Is he just trolling us for fun?

I'm betting he's just a dude that wants to know if he found a good deal on a horn or not. I knew how to post pics on a message board before I joined SOTW from experience using a Texas Football board that uses the same software. It never hurts to be vigilant and I appreciate you looking out for us, but I just can't seem to guess what the scam would be if this dude were a fake.
Reason to be ghost member, Free marketing research from the best source in the world.
8 pictures on 3 different backgrounds/ environments. One is commercial room, one looks like house with wall art and ceiling fan.
2 photographers at least 2 different phones used on different resolutions. Photographers both right & left handed. Wearing shorts in North Carolina and it’s been cold out. The OP last response was approximately 3 AM OPs local time...or 1500 in China.

Littlewailer. Very misleading question the way the OP worded it. OP states no purchase price or that he intends to buy it. Only that he(?) found one in a pawnshop and wants to know what we think. Why go through the trouble of axing the serial numbers if he’s trying to expose something fake. Not to mention it would be 44 years old and not a scratch on it.
Then support the question with pictures that were not actually taken in the environment. All as first time post and new member.

This person is no rookie. My guard is up. I’m not buying into these kinds of threads anymore.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
14,268 Posts
Just to pick a nit . . . if the instrument in question is indeed a counterfeit, the crime involves trademark infringement(s). It has been a long time since I retired from that field but I recall that the level of the crime (misdemeanor vs. felony) involves the number of infringed marks (to name one element of the offense).

Just a few infringed registered trademarks on one item may not be a felony. Oh, I could research it but I really don't care. Dealing in such an item is repugnant to me (and obviously to others here on SOTW) so whether or not it may be felonious is of little concern to me. Just want to keep reality involved in this discussion.

Of course, there could be fraud or conspiracy involved in the re-sale of such an item but those allegations may become more creative and less practical on the part of federal or local prosecutors depending on many factors. DAVE
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top