[patseguin]

Well, my horn has lost some of it's shine but still looks pretty new. There are signs of very minor tarnishing appearing in a couple places. The worst of it is on the bell where it rests on the rubber holder of my sax stand. I always leave the horn in the stand and I'm beginning to think I should not do that. I did put a piece of cloth over the stand and now put the sax on that. I guess the question is, can I do anything about the marks on the bell from the stand?

 

[hgiles]

Didn't you know what you were getting into when you bought an un-lacquered horn?

 

[sambeaux]

Uh, yeah, I think that's the idea with an UL horn... You'll be fighting an uphill battle if you try to make it look as good as it sounds!

 

[Joe Jazz]

I guess you could always try Brasso....

 

[patseguin]

I definitely knew what I was getting into and don't mind how it looks. I just wondered if I could do anything about the bell.

The horn continues to play GREAT. I've not even slightly regretted parting with my ref 54.

 

[Dave Dolson]

patesguin: The issue of leaving horns on the stand (peg?) has been discussed a few times - there seems to be no consensus. I for one do not leave my horns on the stand - I put them in their cases after each session of playing them.

I understand the reasons for leaving a horn out - when I did it, the appearnces of my out-horns deteriorated over weeks.

I am not a fan of UL saxophones and don't believe the hype about their sound compared to others, but my purpose here is not to debate that - I realize others buy into that theory. I would think that a bare brass horn wouldn't be permanetly marred by the contact points like a horn with plating or lacquer, but I have no answer to that question. I have vintage saxophones with permanent markings on the bells from leaving them on the stand. Of course it doesn't affect how they sound. DAVE

 

[lilleyjl]

I learned from my outstanding repair man that very fine gauge steel wool can be used on the 82z to get rid of the tarnishing.

 

[Henry D]

".

 

[gary]

Well Pat, I hope you get this worked out, but in the meantime I want to thank you for posting this. My Z UL tenor usually sits on a sax stand. Guess I'll have to remember to keep a cloth draped over the rubber support.

 

[SaxyAcoustician]

I don't understand. I thought the point of the unlacquered "finish" was for the horn to have the true vintage look. Isn't that why you guys bought your UL horns? Don't tell me you chose that finish for the sound. :?

I for one find myself loving my A991UL more and more the "dirtier" it gets. I leave it on my sax stand every day and night (actually, during the day it spends most of its time in my hands), and I even rub down with my fingers the spots on the horn that don't get any love so that those spots can also grow a nice patina. I am LOVING my A991. Man, Yanagisawa makes sweet altos (and curved sopranos).

 

[gary]

There's a difference between having a bare brass, well worn look and a black rubber mark running across the bell, wot?

Regarding UL vs lacquered, I can only say that I have had two YTS 82Zs and they both sounded differently than the lacquered ones I played and that the difference between the ULs themselves was not as noticeable as the difference between the ULs and lacquered ones. Of course this could be an inconsistency in manufacturing. I really don't care about the why only that my UL sounds good.

It might be interesting to note, though, that there are some very fine professionals who have chosen the UL ostensibly for its sound (Jeff Coffin, Phil Woods, Dino Govoni).

 

[HOUSTON NONET]

ul sounds different and those that say they don't ---well what can i say nice-- knauhgta

 

[Dr G]

I learned from my outstanding repair man that very fine gauge steel wool can be used on the 82z to get rid of the tarnishing.

I would use either scrubbing pads such as those from 3M ("greenies") or mild cleansers such as Brasso or Simichrome. Using steel wool on brass tends to leave small bits of steel imbedded in the brass that will, in turn, create their own little "issues".

What you are most likely experiencing is a strong concentration of sulphur in the surface layer coming from the rubber. I don't know the diffusion rates but it may be in the brass rather than merely on it.

Best to keep rubber away from bare brass. Silicone tubing would be a better choice in this application.

 

[chknbon]

Try a jeweler's polishing cloth.

 

[Dave Dolson]

I don't think there is any diffrerence among all the finishes, at least that anyone can prove is caused by the finish (or lack thereof). Yes, there are differences among most saxophones but that may be because of factors OTHER than the finish.

The differences to me are just differences, not better or worse, just different. Yes, I've tested a few.

I agree with Gary in that if he likes his UL horns, all the more power to him. But I STILL believe that it is because his particular UL horn is a good player, NOT because it doesn't have lacquer on it. DAVE

 

[SaxyAcoustician]

There's a difference between having a bare brass, well worn look and a black rubber mark running across the bell, wot?

What kinds of sax stands are people using? :? Mine exhibits no such behavior.

Regarding UL vs lacquered, I can only say that I have had two YTS 82Zs and they both sounded differently than the lacquered ones I played and that the difference between the ULs themselves was not as noticeable as the difference between the ULs and lacquered ones. Of course this could be an inconsistency in manufacturing. I really don't care about the why only that my UL sounds good.

It might be interesting to note, though, that there are some very fine professionals who have chosen the UL ostensibly for its sound (Jeff Coffin, Phil Woods, Dino Govoni).

And those "very fine professionals" who don't play on UL horns chose their finishes due to...? "Professionals" play all different kinds of horns (make, model, finish, etc). Besides, gary, you don't consider yourself a "professional"? (You have a DMA in music.) You should think your opinion is just as valid.

As susceptible humans we tend to lean away from objectivity and attempt to attribute or explain our perceptions to what only seems correct. Almost every horn I've bought has been sight unseen; after play-testing horns at say a sax convention I just call up my salesman and say this is what I want and it's sent to me. I recognize that there are differences in feel and sound between makes models but I've never ever perceived differences that were explicable only by the finish. What I know is that all well-regulated horns within a particular model lineup have played similarly regardless of finish. Absolutely no question about that.

 

[HOUSTON NONET]

What I know is that all well-regulated horns within a particular model lineup have played similarly regardless of finish. Absolutely no question about that.[/QUOTE]

Any data you can share with us

 

[HOUSTON NONET]

"I don't think there is any diffrerence among all the finishes....",

Dave
I think you might find that Bob Mintzer would disagree with that statement. Based on a statemnt made by Bergonzi this summer at Jazz Vermont-- I think he would also disagree

 

[gary]

#1. What kinds of sax stands are people using? :? Mine exhibits no such behavior.

#2. And those "very fine professionals" who don't play on UL horns chose their finishes due to...? "Professionals" play all different kinds of horns

#3. Besides, gary, you don't consider yourself a "professional"? (You have a DMA in music.) You should think your opinion is just as valid.

#1. You'll have to ask Pat that one. Mine hasn't given any marks to any of my horns.

#2. Yep, but I'll bet (I know in one instance) that they A/B the horns pretty well before buying and, at least think, the ULs had an advantage.

#3. Well, not really. There are "amateurs" on this forum who can smoke me. My degrees are in composition and conducting, not performance.

At any rate, the UL controversy shall go on. Talk to trumpet players: same thing with some of them. I don"t want to flog this baby any more tonight. A schnitzel and spaghetti await.

 

[selmer]

i actually think that it's down to personal preference, but personally love unlacquered horns as for me the removal of lacquer seems to free up the sound. But that's just me.