2-5-1
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Have a look at our own Nefertiti's patterns.
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I'll second that! There's a wealth of good licks in there to learn from and extrapolate upon! I even feel that a lot of them are great at face value! I play through at least a page of these (one lick in all 12 keys) during my practice routine. If I find one I really like I play around with it and/or really work hard to commit it to memory.cleger said:
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BTW- There's a lot I did here @ SOTW, enjoy.
A basic study moved through six steps. Then I included one of my own based on a variation of some of the first six.I think it's always good for all of us to go back to a basic pattern study to clear our ears and refresh our chops. Look at all six shapes. Check it here;
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Price/II-V-I-Patterns1.html
A nice jazz line using II-V.
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Price/Dec00.html
And a I-VI-II-V...of course
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Price/Jul01.html
If you check my web page- you'll find some intervallic studys on II-V.
http://www.timpricejazz.com/lessons/intervalic1.jpg
A great ii-v my teacher Sal Nistico laid on me decades ago; this one is fun!!!
http://www.timpricejazz.com/lessons/SalNistico.pdf
A Cool ii-v with #9..that Sal had me doing- is here;
http://www.timpricejazz.com/lessons/salnistico2.pdf
A nice ii-v pattern on everyones fav. tune;
http://www.timpricejazz.com/lessons/iiV.pdf
REMEMBER.....
When we enter the world of improvisational playing as compared to other
subjects, one must be ready to savor ambiguity.There are techniques to be
learned and memorized,please keep in mind conceptual thinking
reigns supreme.After all we are trying encourage creativity and the use of the imagination rather than mere repetition of information.....*meaning* that the fingers go where the ear dictates, or the embouchure knows what to do to get a certain sound and on. This is physical training on a very subtle level.
also- Check out these ROOTLESS lines and have fun!
THEN TRY THEM ON OTHER CHORD TYPES BY EAR AFTER YOU INTERNALIZE THESE.
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Price/RootlessMajorChord.html
After you take these lines thru your paces, re-write them as you hear
them.Experiment!!! Add new chord shapes.That aspect becomes another interesting and informative part of study, which is student projects.This aspect propigates personal search within one's own playing. Listening IS learning!!
Keep in mind, the process of learning is open ended and like everything in life,and not perfect. HAVE FUN ~
A basic study moved through six steps. Then I included one of my own based on a variation of some of the first six.I think it's always good for all of us to go back to a basic pattern study to clear our ears and refresh our chops. Look at all six shapes. Check it here;
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Price/II-V-I-Patterns1.html
A nice jazz line using II-V.
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Price/Dec00.html
And a I-VI-II-V...of course
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Price/Jul01.html
If you check my web page- you'll find some intervallic studys on II-V.
http://www.timpricejazz.com/lessons/intervalic1.jpg
A great ii-v my teacher Sal Nistico laid on me decades ago; this one is fun!!!
http://www.timpricejazz.com/lessons/SalNistico.pdf
A Cool ii-v with #9..that Sal had me doing- is here;
http://www.timpricejazz.com/lessons/salnistico2.pdf
A nice ii-v pattern on everyones fav. tune;
http://www.timpricejazz.com/lessons/iiV.pdf
REMEMBER.....
When we enter the world of improvisational playing as compared to other
subjects, one must be ready to savor ambiguity.There are techniques to be
learned and memorized,please keep in mind conceptual thinking
reigns supreme.After all we are trying encourage creativity and the use of the imagination rather than mere repetition of information.....*meaning* that the fingers go where the ear dictates, or the embouchure knows what to do to get a certain sound and on. This is physical training on a very subtle level.
also- Check out these ROOTLESS lines and have fun!
THEN TRY THEM ON OTHER CHORD TYPES BY EAR AFTER YOU INTERNALIZE THESE.
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Price/RootlessMajorChord.html
After you take these lines thru your paces, re-write them as you hear
them.Experiment!!! Add new chord shapes.That aspect becomes another interesting and informative part of study, which is student projects.This aspect propigates personal search within one's own playing. Listening IS learning!!
Keep in mind, the process of learning is open ended and like everything in life,and not perfect. HAVE FUN ~
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www.myspace.com/christopherbraig
I will be adding the lessons I do at my schools to this site on an ongoing basis.
I will be adding the lessons I do at my schools to this site on an ongoing basis.
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1,517 Posts
Technique of the Saxophone - Volume 2: Chord Studies Joe V.
There are many very jive examples for ii v books. Try to stay away from them other than as a very basic and infrequent practice device. They will only make you sound lame. Also, not for nothing, playing patterns is a huge waste of time and will not make you a good player. It will, however, make you sound like everybody else.
There are many very jive examples for ii v books. Try to stay away from them other than as a very basic and infrequent practice device. They will only make you sound lame. Also, not for nothing, playing patterns is a huge waste of time and will not make you a good player. It will, however, make you sound like everybody else.
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9 out of 10 patterns on any of this stuff drive me insane. The 10th is the stuff Tim Price has put together -- it's awesome. Very musical, but it really does lead to conceptualization. My $.02
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Patterns are good to work on, they are like vocabulary exercises in the literature world. But it is also important to understand what makes a ii-VI a ii-V-I It's all about the 3rd and 7th in each chord properly resolving to the tonality of the I chord. If you focus on where you are going you will get there. Think of this when you look at these patterns. UNDERSTAND what makes a particular pattern sound tasty to you. Is it a beautiful Sonny Stitt turnaround? A mind-blowing Coltrane chord substitution, or a mathematically impressive Brecker pattern/sequence? KNOWING what makes the pattern appealing will make it easier for you to learn in all keys and easier to incorporate into your own playing.
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Only if you learn the patterns just to play the patterns. What they can do is get you used to thinking and hearing lines in all the tonal centers and help you get your hands around them. And that is not a waste of time.Chicken 'Lil said:
If you want to romp with the big boys, eventually somebody is going to throw Cherokee at you at 280. If you aren't comfortable with your instrument all over the harmonic landscape, best head for the bar and sit that one out.
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I think the best patterns are the ones that you find on your own. They tend to stay with you more and become part of your 'usable' vocabulary rather than 'known' vocabulary.
In other words, listen to the recordings, when you hear something tasty, remember it practice it and use it.
In other words, listen to the recordings, when you hear something tasty, remember it practice it and use it.
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If somebody throws Cherokee at 280 and you are still working on ii v patterns you're dead anyway. The best advice I was ever given about these kinds of exercises came from Joe Allard. Learn them and then forget them.Al Stevens said:
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Hey I checked out your My space lesson and it was very good. Sort of like the way I remember David Baker breaking down learning the language in one of his Books. Nice very thorough. Thanks.vonbraig said:
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Usually one has already done the pattern thing all the way through before venturing into the Cherokee sacred burial grounds.Chicken 'Lil said:
That's good advice. Because once you have learned what they teach, you don't need them anymore. But he did say, "Learn them." That's important.Chicken 'Lil said:
Dexter played patterns. Or licks, if you prefer. You hear them all the time in his solos. I'm told that Trane practiced extensively with the Rascher exercises, which are about sixty pages of patterns based on the three dim7 chords. If you want to argue with Dexter and Trane, you're on your own.
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inside outside: a shortcut to jazz improvisation by bunky green
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Do you really need to memorize Jazz licks?
This an article I wrote a while ago from my Casa Valdez Jazz blog
Maurizio Miotti, a regular reader from Rome, wrote in with a great question.
" My saxophone teacher tells me that I can study music theory and harmony, but if I want to improvise jazz music I have to listen, memorize and play "jazz phrases". The same situation with learn a new language: you can study grammar but when you talk with someone, you have to use idiomatic expressions because grammar is a set of theoretical roles (sometimes "a little distant" from the current language) and pre-defined phrases are more efficient for communication."
This is a very good analogy. Jazz is a universal language that is spoken all over the world. I can go to Poland and call All the Things on the stand and immediately be speaking the same language as the band musically. Licks are very much like idiomatic expressions, they are the elements of a musical language that can be understood the world over. Many licks are favorite patterns developed by an influential player. These are often forever tied to this player as signature licks. Everybody knows exactly whom these licks came from as soon as you play them. Yes, Bird and Trane live, because everyone is still playing their ****!
Other licks are what I call 'Public Domain' licks. These are pattern and lines that can't really be tracked down to any particular player. These are the first licks that young players memorize as they learn to improvise. Most diminished and whole tone patterns are in this class. These licks are your garden variety stale old Be-bop licks. David Baker has done a wonderful job cataloging these public domain licks in his 'How to Play Bebop' books. These are licks are tried and true, good as gold and oldies but goodies. Everyone has heard these expressions, but they still carry a strong meaning and are understood by everyone who speaks the language. By learning public domain licks you learn how to construct logical and meaningful lines, they can also act as fillers when you aren't feeling totally spontaneous.
If you were to speak using nothing but idiomatic expressions you'd sound ridiculous.
It would be like an albatross round your neck if you thought it was all the rage to jump on the bandwagon with the rank and file who play nothing but licks, thinking they were real deal and the creme de la creme. In all honesty these dime a dozen bean counters make me lose my lunch!
Like idioms, licks are meaningful elements of a musical language, but they can and usually are overused. I once heard Donny McCaslin say that you need to learn the entire common licks so that you don't ever have to play them. Many professional players never get past the point of playing nothing but licks, we would call these guys totally derivative or BOOOOOORING. True, some great licks never get old, no matter how many time you hear them, but some dumb licks can make a great player sound corny and hokey in an instant.
It also depends on location. You might get away with playing an old Bebop line in Idaho that would evoke groans from an audience in the East Village. The less the listener knows about Jazz, the better these corny-*** lines sound, because they haven't heard every beginning soloist play them already. You can fool an uneducated audience into thinking that you're can really play by stringing a bunch of stale licks together, it's a fast way to sound like you're playing Real Jazz. Is this really creative? Some would argue that it is and that the goal is to sound good, and playing lots of licks helps you sound good. Many, many players take this way of playing to the extreme and play nothing but licks that they have memorized. They are happy to regurgitate dumb licks for their entire career.
There are different approaches that teachers take with students with regards to learning licks. The first approach is to have the student memorize a ton of licks in every key. The great disadvantage to this approach is that the student ends up sounding redundant by repeating the exact same lick in many different keys during a solo. Also if the student never breaks free of this mode of learning they end up sounding totally generic. There is also no cohesion in the player's solos, just a bunch of unrelated parts.
• "That guy sounds like every other tenor player, but no one in particular"
I have my students work out of books like David Baker's How to Play Bebop in order to get them hearing how lines are constructed and also to give them ideas about how to construct their own lines. To me licks are like training wheels that you eventually take off once you've learned how to improvise your own original lines. Even great players sometimes break out an old Bebop lick once and a while, maybe as a nod to a favorite player or for some kind of effect. Sure, I use elements of the many different licks that I've memorized over the years, but only small parts of these licks. Now I use licks as templates from which to build my own lines. I do sound like a Bebop player when I play Bebop because I've incorporated the vernacular of Bebop into my playing over the years. You can hear Bird, Cannonball and many other players in there, but you'd probably be hard pressed to pick out exactly which line came from which player. When I was younger you probably could pick out many Bird phrases in my solos, but as I get older I've created more of my own personal vernacular. The biggest reason players like Pops, Bird, Trane and Woody Shaw were innovators was that they created their own personal language that was so compelling that it influenced players for years to come. Their personal idioms became the public domain licks that everyone else incorporated into their own playing.
How is the evolution of the language of Jazz much like the evolution of language? Once in a while a particularly strong personality comes along, say like a Snoop Dog, and suddenly everyone is putting 'izzle' on the end of words. Sometimes these fo'shizzles and mo'nizzles pass like fads, other times they work their way into the language and end up in Webster's dictionary or maybe even spoken on the lips of the queen of England.
Yusef Lateef used to tell his students that it is never too early to start developing an original sound and style. The idea that you must first learn all the idiomatic Jazz licks before you can really start creating an original style is total ********.
You can be working on your own unique way of playing from the very beginning by learning to make everything you absorb your own. Yes, practice the public domain licks and patterns, but as you learn them put your own twist on them. Displace a note here and there, change a rhythm, leave a note out, add an accidental, just do something to it. Take different pieces of patterns and combine them in unusual ways. I have my students look at David Baker's ii-V7 licks (the ones that are all in the same key and stacked one above the other) and play the ii-7 bar from one lick and a V7 bar from another lick. I have them try all different V7 resolutions with the same ii-7 bar. Then I might have them play the same ii-7 bar and play an improvised V7 using a diminished scale, then a whole-tone, then and an altered dominant, ECT. Then I have them play different ii-7 bars while keeping the same V7 resolution the same.
You don't have to wait until you've mastered the Jazz language to start creating your own personal idioms. On the other hand if you create a personal language that has no relationship at all to the languages that everyone else is speaks then no one will be able to converse with or understand you. Remember Steve Martin's routine when he talks about wanting to have a kid and teach him to speak random gibberish for laughs?
It all comes down to balance. A good balance between original and idiomatic material is essential in order to sound fresh and still sound like you're grounded in the Jazz tradition. You don't want to alienate the other musicians or your audience by playing the music of the spheres all night. You also don't want to sound like you sleep with the Omnibook under your pillow (which I thoroughly approve of by the way) or that the only record you own is Heavy Metal Bebop.
Why bother even pulling out your horn if you're just going to play licks that you memorized from records and books? Respect the tradition by adapting its idioms and making them your own, not by being stuck playing nothing but music from before 1957. Take a chance and be creative, even at the expense of sounding sloppy and bad once in a while. Try not to use long licks, instead only use short fragments.
Innovate as you emulate. It's possible to sound very original without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
* Foshizzle Monizzle?
"We are not here to do what has already been done."- Robert Henri
This an article I wrote a while ago from my Casa Valdez Jazz blog
Maurizio Miotti, a regular reader from Rome, wrote in with a great question.
" My saxophone teacher tells me that I can study music theory and harmony, but if I want to improvise jazz music I have to listen, memorize and play "jazz phrases". The same situation with learn a new language: you can study grammar but when you talk with someone, you have to use idiomatic expressions because grammar is a set of theoretical roles (sometimes "a little distant" from the current language) and pre-defined phrases are more efficient for communication."
This is a very good analogy. Jazz is a universal language that is spoken all over the world. I can go to Poland and call All the Things on the stand and immediately be speaking the same language as the band musically. Licks are very much like idiomatic expressions, they are the elements of a musical language that can be understood the world over. Many licks are favorite patterns developed by an influential player. These are often forever tied to this player as signature licks. Everybody knows exactly whom these licks came from as soon as you play them. Yes, Bird and Trane live, because everyone is still playing their ****!
Other licks are what I call 'Public Domain' licks. These are pattern and lines that can't really be tracked down to any particular player. These are the first licks that young players memorize as they learn to improvise. Most diminished and whole tone patterns are in this class. These licks are your garden variety stale old Be-bop licks. David Baker has done a wonderful job cataloging these public domain licks in his 'How to Play Bebop' books. These are licks are tried and true, good as gold and oldies but goodies. Everyone has heard these expressions, but they still carry a strong meaning and are understood by everyone who speaks the language. By learning public domain licks you learn how to construct logical and meaningful lines, they can also act as fillers when you aren't feeling totally spontaneous.
If you were to speak using nothing but idiomatic expressions you'd sound ridiculous.
It would be like an albatross round your neck if you thought it was all the rage to jump on the bandwagon with the rank and file who play nothing but licks, thinking they were real deal and the creme de la creme. In all honesty these dime a dozen bean counters make me lose my lunch!
Like idioms, licks are meaningful elements of a musical language, but they can and usually are overused. I once heard Donny McCaslin say that you need to learn the entire common licks so that you don't ever have to play them. Many professional players never get past the point of playing nothing but licks, we would call these guys totally derivative or BOOOOOORING. True, some great licks never get old, no matter how many time you hear them, but some dumb licks can make a great player sound corny and hokey in an instant.
It also depends on location. You might get away with playing an old Bebop line in Idaho that would evoke groans from an audience in the East Village. The less the listener knows about Jazz, the better these corny-*** lines sound, because they haven't heard every beginning soloist play them already. You can fool an uneducated audience into thinking that you're can really play by stringing a bunch of stale licks together, it's a fast way to sound like you're playing Real Jazz. Is this really creative? Some would argue that it is and that the goal is to sound good, and playing lots of licks helps you sound good. Many, many players take this way of playing to the extreme and play nothing but licks that they have memorized. They are happy to regurgitate dumb licks for their entire career.
There are different approaches that teachers take with students with regards to learning licks. The first approach is to have the student memorize a ton of licks in every key. The great disadvantage to this approach is that the student ends up sounding redundant by repeating the exact same lick in many different keys during a solo. Also if the student never breaks free of this mode of learning they end up sounding totally generic. There is also no cohesion in the player's solos, just a bunch of unrelated parts.
• "That guy sounds like every other tenor player, but no one in particular"
I have my students work out of books like David Baker's How to Play Bebop in order to get them hearing how lines are constructed and also to give them ideas about how to construct their own lines. To me licks are like training wheels that you eventually take off once you've learned how to improvise your own original lines. Even great players sometimes break out an old Bebop lick once and a while, maybe as a nod to a favorite player or for some kind of effect. Sure, I use elements of the many different licks that I've memorized over the years, but only small parts of these licks. Now I use licks as templates from which to build my own lines. I do sound like a Bebop player when I play Bebop because I've incorporated the vernacular of Bebop into my playing over the years. You can hear Bird, Cannonball and many other players in there, but you'd probably be hard pressed to pick out exactly which line came from which player. When I was younger you probably could pick out many Bird phrases in my solos, but as I get older I've created more of my own personal vernacular. The biggest reason players like Pops, Bird, Trane and Woody Shaw were innovators was that they created their own personal language that was so compelling that it influenced players for years to come. Their personal idioms became the public domain licks that everyone else incorporated into their own playing.
How is the evolution of the language of Jazz much like the evolution of language? Once in a while a particularly strong personality comes along, say like a Snoop Dog, and suddenly everyone is putting 'izzle' on the end of words. Sometimes these fo'shizzles and mo'nizzles pass like fads, other times they work their way into the language and end up in Webster's dictionary or maybe even spoken on the lips of the queen of England.
Yusef Lateef used to tell his students that it is never too early to start developing an original sound and style. The idea that you must first learn all the idiomatic Jazz licks before you can really start creating an original style is total ********.
You can be working on your own unique way of playing from the very beginning by learning to make everything you absorb your own. Yes, practice the public domain licks and patterns, but as you learn them put your own twist on them. Displace a note here and there, change a rhythm, leave a note out, add an accidental, just do something to it. Take different pieces of patterns and combine them in unusual ways. I have my students look at David Baker's ii-V7 licks (the ones that are all in the same key and stacked one above the other) and play the ii-7 bar from one lick and a V7 bar from another lick. I have them try all different V7 resolutions with the same ii-7 bar. Then I might have them play the same ii-7 bar and play an improvised V7 using a diminished scale, then a whole-tone, then and an altered dominant, ECT. Then I have them play different ii-7 bars while keeping the same V7 resolution the same.
You don't have to wait until you've mastered the Jazz language to start creating your own personal idioms. On the other hand if you create a personal language that has no relationship at all to the languages that everyone else is speaks then no one will be able to converse with or understand you. Remember Steve Martin's routine when he talks about wanting to have a kid and teach him to speak random gibberish for laughs?
It all comes down to balance. A good balance between original and idiomatic material is essential in order to sound fresh and still sound like you're grounded in the Jazz tradition. You don't want to alienate the other musicians or your audience by playing the music of the spheres all night. You also don't want to sound like you sleep with the Omnibook under your pillow (which I thoroughly approve of by the way) or that the only record you own is Heavy Metal Bebop.
Why bother even pulling out your horn if you're just going to play licks that you memorized from records and books? Respect the tradition by adapting its idioms and making them your own, not by being stuck playing nothing but music from before 1957. Take a chance and be creative, even at the expense of sounding sloppy and bad once in a while. Try not to use long licks, instead only use short fragments.
Innovate as you emulate. It's possible to sound very original without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
* Foshizzle Monizzle?
"We are not here to do what has already been done."- Robert Henri
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4,283 Posts
It is my experience that you can broaden your jazz vocabulary by learning another instrument.
Each instrument influences what you play on it by what its physical properties bring to the expression. First you find that not all of what you already know works on the new instrument. Then, because your vocabulary on it is consequently lessened, you explore for new things to say with the new intrument.
It's a learning cycle. Each instrument has something to teach, and what you learn from one changes how you play the others.
Each instrument influences what you play on it by what its physical properties bring to the expression. First you find that not all of what you already know works on the new instrument. Then, because your vocabulary on it is consequently lessened, you explore for new things to say with the new intrument.
It's a learning cycle. Each instrument has something to teach, and what you learn from one changes how you play the others.
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