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Im not an expert but it certainly doesnt look like a buffer has been near this horn.

Its in pretty amazing shape but some folks take care of their stuff.
 

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It also looks original to me Heiner.

Those are great horns (I have a 1953 SBA tenor 506xx, but without lacquer and by far not looking as nice as this one).
 

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Nice. I'd snap it up.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, folks, that's the way it goes. The owner just told me casually in a mail he had the engraving done in one of the best German repair shops in the past. Now if the engraving was done after-market, what about the lacquer? I put his offer down, because the price of the horn does definitely not justify accepting a non-original engraving.
Thanks for all your help. Funny how things work out sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I usually don't like debating prices in forums, but this time....He asked 9500 EUR and was ready to accept 8500 EUR (about 10500 USD).
 

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Need more pics to be sure, engraving did look newish but it doesn't seem re-engraved. Maybe Euro horn? Picture of the female end of tenon, and grid thing on neck would help, as would serial number stamping.
 

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I was going to say possible factory relacquer because of the lacquer color, but it can be hard to tell in a picture -- but when a horn looks that good, I'm not quite sure if that really makes that much of a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I guess it doesn't matter sonically, but in that case it must be made public from the start and of course the price of an original lacquer horn is different, or isn't it?
 

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true. however, not all owners might be aware of if an instrument is original lacquer or not. If the seller explicitly states that it's original lacquer then the seller must stand by that claim.
 

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It WAS re-engraved.
Then they did a stunning job ! Who was that ?

I totally understand that a collector would be more concerned about the horn being completely original.
For me , first and foremost, it would need to turn me on as a player.
Another thing to take into consideration, is the fact than during the reign of the SBA it was quite common to keep up the appearance of your horn by having a re-lacquer.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The owner said it's a man from the East who is specialized in these engravings and comes to Germany once or twice a year. This job was done in one of the best repair-shops in the south of Germany. A friend just wrote me a mail:

"From my experience, and from what I see in the pictures, the SBA has likely been reacquired and engraved afterwards. The flower engraving is much sharper and present than the lettering. Also, the right hand thumb rest is not original."

IMHO, the crucial point is that I have been thinking and negotiating about this SBA for weeks, and when the owner states such an important structural detail casually just before the deal happens, I feel he planned not to mention it at all. Another friend from England said the engraving style was American (which he found funny on a horn assembled in Paris). Only when I asked the seller about this, he came out with the bad news.
 

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Heiner, do you know the serial number on this one?

Such a pity that it was re-engraved.
Only about 7% of SBA Tenors featured the high F# and most of the Euro examples were silver plated.
It is an extremely rare horn.
 

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Yes, the engraving style looks American, so I think it was unengraved before?
There might be still the possibility that it isn’t a relaquer, but who knows.

If you don’t have any oxidation inside the sharp engraving like on this horn after all those years, and the brass is that shiny, you always have to be careful, I think.

The right hand thumbhook seems to be original, but only covered with a slice of cork to make it more comfortable.

You are right, Heiner: the information of the seller should have been given beforehand.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Heiner, do you know the serial number on this one?

Such a pity that it was re-engraved.
Only about 7% of SBA Tenors featured the high F# and most of the Euro examples were silver plated.
It is an extremely rare horn.
When I asked the seller about the serial number, he just gave me the first two digits (52xxx). Since I cancelled the deal, I haven't heard from him and don't really want to ask him. My guess: the horn was relacquered and later it was re-engraved on top. The fact that it is a rare High-F# with only 7% will most likely not have been realized by the guy who had the work done.
 
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