[AlanU]

Hello

This instrument I'm currently dismantling has what I think are the original pads.
They have no reflectors, just plain pads, the larger ones with rivets.

Do you think I should replace like for like or use plain domed reflectors?
I think I can guess what you'll say, but I'm worried that without reflectors it could sound a bit weedy, 'under-powered'.

Also, the springs seem pretty knackered.
I've replaced springs before, but never a whole Saxophones worth.
Would you replace them all while overhauling this great old horn? They are eighty six years old, and pretty rusty.

Thanks very much for your replies.
I think I'm looking for reassurance really.

Cheers

 

[dzve]

I have an alto same year, I would go with italian pads and what ever reso you feel like using. The springs are super light and replaced only the ones that needed it. These are such great playing selmers, you will love it...

 

[Reet McVouty]

I would put the resonators on it. It will only improve on what is a great sounding horn. Here's a video you should watch.

 

[milandro]

Hello

This instrument I'm currently dismantling has what I think are the original pads.
They have no reflectors, just plain pads, the larger ones with rivets.

Do you think I should replace like for like or use plain domed reflectors?
I think I can guess what you'll say, but I'm worried that without reflectors it could sound a bit weedy, 'under-powered'.

Also, the springs seem pretty knackered.
I've replaced springs before, but never a whole Saxophones worth.
Would you replace them all while overhauling this great old horn? They are eighty six years old, and pretty rusty.

Thanks very much for your replies.
I think I'm looking for reassurance really.

Cheers

Old saxophones were born without resonators and often have those rivetless white pads , later on there were horns with tan color pads and only a rivet, so yours appears to have had the latter.

There is certainly a difference in sound ( according to the findings of the only serious test https://www.syos.co/en/blog/acoustics/pad-resonators-part-2 ) with or without resonators but one should ask oneself whether you are restoring the saxophone to " original" condition (and sound) or you are changing it to something that it never was.

Both are good approaches just different ones.

Not unlike upgrading the engine ( or any other parts) of a car that wasn't born with it. Some people go for absolute originality and some don't.

But this is an historical saxophone , if you wanted a modern saxophone you could have got one of those, but you wanted and SSS because it iwas an SSS, a 1934 saxophone, right?

The how about appreciating it for what it was?

Ask yourself what the point would be of having an historical saxophone... but with a sound that it was never designed to have? It would be the creation of a contradiction.

A bit like using a nearly 100 years old saxophone ( with all its peculiarities) but then using a paint peeler mouthpiece to it to play hypermodern music with it? Then why bother with the entire " vintage" horn altogether?

It all depends what you want to achieve and more importantly, why.

Selmer produced a 130th anniversary alto with riveted white pads.

Funny that in the video the demonstrator goes on about how this is mellow (is it?) but then Kessler, another seller, says that the pads are so " firm" that they reflect tonally and absorb less acoustically (whatever that means! Internet is a place where you find one thing and its contrary next to each other ).

this is what kessler has to say about this

"..This model was further rounded out with the use of white pads without resonators, paying tribute to the original saxophone designs. Don't let that dissuade you. Normally, resonator-less saxophones tend to play overtly mellow and a hair stuffy… but not this horn! Selmer is using a unique, modern pad that is far firmer than traditional pads. This helps the entire pad absorb less acoustically while reflecting more tonally out. This horn is big, rich, mellow and resonant while having impeccable response and intonation! This is absolutely one of our favorite saxophones ever created!!..."

 

[jgreiner]

Alan, everyone who has replied so far has very valid points. In the end, it's really up to you what you decide to do. Afterall.....it's YOUR horn!
I have a 1933 Super tenor and alto as well as a 1935 Radio Improved alto. On all three horns (which I regularly play) I have "Selmer style" plastic domed resonators from Music Medic installed.
https://musicmedic.com/mainpads/saxophone-resonators/brown-plastic-domed-resonators.html
When I first bought these horns (over a 25 yr. span), they had various types of resonators in them from metal (with a rivet in the middle): https://musicmedic.com/mainpads/saxophone-resonators/domed-metal-resonators.html to these: https://musicmedic.com/mainpads/sax...stro-star-classic-resonators-solid-brass.html
I honestly have noticed no difference between the types of reso's I've had in my horns. Yes, originally they had the same type of (basically rivet only) resonators as Milandro pictured above in the 130th anniversary alto. Whichever way you decide to go, I honestly don't think you'd notice very much (if any) difference.
As for the springs, it depends on how rusty/corroded they are. If you can remove the rust by using a sanding stick or small wire brush and then taking a Q-tip (ear bud) and lightly coating them with key oil, they'll most likely be fine. IF they're not rusted through in places that is!
A word of advice regarding the springs on the SSS Selmer's. Every horn of that period I've played, the springs were fairly light, meaning not a ton of "resistance" in the keys. However, there's one spring on those horns that needs to be VERY strong......the Low C# spring. The way the pinky cluster is designed on those horns, that spring needs to be (to be redundant) VERY stiff/strong because if it isn't, the low C# will tend to "blow open" when pushing the volume. Also, be very aware to perfectly position the low C# pinky touch to be making contact with the bottom "shelf" of the G# key. This will also help prevent the low C# from blowing open/leaking. I'd also advise springing the side Bb and C fairly stiff/strong as well for the same reason.
I know those horns quite well as I've been playing them since the early 90's and doing my own repair on them for the last 5-6 years.
Have fun. You have a great horn there!

John

 

[clarnibass]

Ignoring any tone difference, resonators have the advantage of helping to hold the pad firmly flat (especially larger pads). They were made this way because that was the "technology" at the time. It's not as if they tried pads with resonators and decided against using them because it was better without. It wasn't done purposely to give a specific character. Selmer started (and never really stopped) using pads with resonators not that long after.

The only reasons to not have resonators are to keep it the way it was for the sake of keeping it that way (though the pads themselves are probably different so...) and if you happen to prefer the way it plays without resonators. The first is an emotional choice, just the way it feels to you, no one can tell you one way or the other.
IME without resonators it would play, at best, the same. Since (IMO) there is no advantage to not using resonators, to give an extreme example, it's a bit like using stones to cut your food because your great, great, great, great........... grandparents did it this way. Though it's a valid reason.

 

[milandro]

well, if the analogy of cutting food would stand would mean that no one would bring back to original condition anything past simply because there is a new technology, now think of all the young artists producing vinyl nowadays ...

It is not only a matter or “ tradition” per se.

Think of restoring an old an historic building, or furniture.In the olden days they put whatever was available at the moment, nowadays there is a painstaking research for old materials. In some countries, like in England, to restore old buildings you are , by law, compelled to use old original materials.

An old radio or amplifier is not restored by changing the inners with some modern “ equivalent”. Let alone vintage guitars...

 

[clarnibass]

well, if the analogy of cutting food would stand would mean that no one would bring back to original condition anything past simply because there is a new technology, now think of all the young artists producing vinyl nowadays ...

It is not only a matter or " tradition" per se.

To clarify, I was referring only to the very specific situation of using or not using resonators on this model saxophone and nothing more general than that.

 

[MDWade]

I have a late model 1936 Radio Improved, which I had overhauled (full mechanical rebuild) in 2017.

I selected Tenor Madness brass reusable domed resonators which give the horn projection and add a nice layer of buzz to the mellow tone of the horn.

I also had all springs replace with blue steel springs. They were dusted to a medium amount of tension so the horn feels snappy and responsive.

 

[StuartSax]

Interesting dilemma. I'm not sure which way I would go.
For my 1920 Martin Handcraft tenor, I chose plain and rivet pads.
For everything else including a 1930 Conn alto - flat metal resonator for US, nylon resos on French.

Bon chance!

 

[Bkenes]

I would use flat metal resonators. That gives you more resonance than the original rivets but without adding the extra space that the domed resonators would take.
My experience is that a smaller resonator surface equals darker sound.
Some people says that this also have an effect on the resonance of the horn.
I notice only a very small change in resonance, mostly on the lower tones. So there is no need to worry about using only rivets if that is preffered.
But using flat metal resonators is a good compromise of using somewhat original but still keeping a good, full, resonance.