[saxoclese]

These are some ideas I posted a while back. So Ya Wanna Learn Sax Repair. If you order pads from Music Medic, I recommend measuring the interior diameter both north and south of each key cup with a ruler with millimeter markings. Try to measure within the accuracy of .5mm which are how they are sold.

 

[saxoclese]

Kraus sells Conn pivot screws with a straight end that are 4-40 for very old Conns, and pivot screws with a "bullet" point that are 4-48 for "newer" Conns such as the 6M and 10M. Both sell for $3.50 a piece. The problem is Kraus sells only to professional techs and his minimum order is $100. He no longer shows Conn "set screws" on his price list. There has been some disagreement about the threads of the "set screws". Some say 1-72 works, and others say 1-64. Some have indicated that M2x0.4 are a workable substitute. I have a few of the older straight pivot screws on a "parts horn" that are available. Just send me a PM.

 

[saxoclese]

The center photo shows that the side of the key cup is higher than the center (or the center is lower than the side). The way I was taught to level the key cup was to hold the portion that is too high over the edge of the steel block, and to carefully tap it down with a small rawhide or plastic hammer. If you go too far and the center of the cup is higher than the sides, simply center the complete cup on the block and tap the rib down with a slightly larger hammer. The effect shown in the last picture is generally caused by placing a hard object under the back of the cup and bending the front down. There are special tools available to bend the front of key cups down without this type of distortion.

 

[saxoclese]

I'm not following the details of the thickness question, but all the horns I've ever worked on had consistent thickness from the palm key pads to the bell key pads. I will say, though, that a too-thin pad is far less troublesome than a too-thick one. You can float a thin pad on a thick bed of shellac, or you can shim behind it. If it's too thick you end up having to bend keys which rarely works out for the best.

Except for one or two cases that has been my experience as well. However, Pison in the measurements for their "pad sets" lists pads of a slightly different thickness for pads in different registers. The chart shown is for a Selmer Mark VI alto.

 

[saxoclese]

There are different techniques and methods various techs use when installing pads using shellac. IMO there is no one right or wrong way, they are just different. My method puts an "ample" amount of shellac on the back of the pad which is quickly flattened on a bench anvil. Next the key cup is heated and the pad is inserted and given a quarter turn. Then after the shellac cools just a bit, I press down in the center of the resonator (if it has one) using a wooden handle of a hammer. The goal is to get complete coverage of both the back of the pad and the key cup without shellac "oozing" out the sides of the pad. For some one who is just learning pad installation, it is a good idea to install a few pads in this manner, and then later heat the keycup and remove the pad to "read" the coverage on both the pad and key cup. If there is no shellac in contact with the center of the key cup, a bit more shellac can be added to the center of the pad. I know many techs pre-coat the inside of the key cup, but I have never found it necessary to do so. Something else I do is to etch a cross hatch into the key cup with a three sided scraper tool. My thinking is that there is better adherence to a rough surface compared to a smooth one. Over the years I have seen quite a few pads that have fallen out showing the shellac intact with a smooth, shiny surface.

 

[saxoclese]

Doing an "amateur" overhaul one can quickly get "into the weeds" when it comes to key fitting. My advice is if there is not too much "play" in the keys, use a thicker key oil to quiet the keys and use softer pads. To do key fitting at a higher level these are the tools I use:

Ferree's Swedging Tool makes fewer marks on keys
Key Swedging Pliers Thin when the swedging tool won't work
Key Swedging Pliers Regular when the swedging too won't work
Post and Hinge Cutter Set to "over expand" the hinge tube and cut it to length while facing, and facing posts
Post Fitting Pliers to close the hole in posts so the rod fits more snugly
Steel Pin Guage Set a great time saver when swedging to insert a pin .001" larger than rod and swedge using that in the tube

I am sure I have left out a few, but this gives a general idea.

 

[saxoclese]

By all means use a leak light when seating pads. I strongly urge you to do so with the springs engaged. It does change how the key closes in some cases. I have become fond of what I call the "tap tap" method of seating pads. I heat the keycup till the shellac is softened and then tap the key closed repeatedly with a moderate touch. In my experience this allows the pad to orient itself to the tonehole and does up to 80% of the work to get a perfect closure. The side keys do need to be in a straight line and on the same plane. It looks like you are doing well. Keep up the good work.

 

[saxoclese]

After he played it for about 10 mins, I took it back to the bench to check it out. one of the regulation points in the upper stack was off. The crossover from the lower to the upper stack now has the slightest gap in it as well. A little sanding on a front foot cork fixed the upper, but wan't enough to raise the crossover bar enough to fix the lower.

Is this typical after a recork? Where the 1st few times it is played things need adjusting due to the cork being compressed?

I also believe some of the pads are still leaking. I didn't do a final leak light check on it before I had him play it, I just wanted to hear it make a sound

I'll probably keep it on my bench for another few days, and possibly redo some of the cork on the upper/lower stacks. When I did those, I really didn't know what to look for or know where I should use thicker than necessary cork to allow for adjustment in the future. Knowing what I know now, I would have done it differently.

I'll probably take it to the tech in a couple of weeks, to see what she says. It would be good to get a set of hands on it who knows what they're doing. If nothing else, just to double check what I've done and look for any leaks I may not be noticing.

Welcome to the wonderful and frustrating world of saxophone repair. When we are seating pads and regulating one key to close with another using a "feather light" finger pressure, movements of 1/2 thousandth of an inch are perceptible. This can include natural cork compressing or expanding, movement of a loose hinge tube on a rod, movement of a rod that is loose in a post, a "forced" impression on a pad "relaxing", and the ever present "gremlins" that come out overight and mess with your work the day before. This is why many in the trade, invest in tonehole leveling tools, key fitting tools, and use materials that don't compress as easily as "natural cork" such as synthetic felt and tech cork. Even then going back and revisiting the work after a play test and resting overnight one or more times is generally a good idea when time permits.

You have done amazing work for a "first effort" and I am looking forward to your sharing more of your endeavors in the future.

 

[saxoclese]

I'll check the nick screw thread size of a vintage Conn tenor I have in the shop and report back. I can also see if I have any that thead size in stock.

 

[saxoclese]

This is what I use in my plating shop to confirm a piece is nickel plated. Nickel Test Kit