Grumps said:
No, what I meant by that was that we've already heard the argument that it is the set-up done with a resonator change that is the true cause of any improvement claimed by the player. To an extent, I agreed with you, but in my example, within a two week period the same tech set up the horn both times prior to me testing it, and the only changes were the resonators. You had then argued that it wasn't possible for a tech to set up a horn the exact same way twice. I then found a post where you claimed to set up three different horns in an identical manner to make your own subjective point; thus challenging the basis for your argument, and yes... transcending it.
Now that you summarise what you perceived, I see where there may be misunderstanding. I don't think it is
impossible for a tech to set up two horns leakproof and with similar venting, it is highly likely that small leaks remain after setting up a horn, especially from the G# area (for the lowest notes), seeing that because of the flexing of metal and the 'give' in silencing materials, this pad gets rather less force transferred to it for sealing purposes than do other pads. Even at the best of times, the keys that are operated by others (eg Bb, F# etc) may seal more poorly than others. Setting up a sax is not an exact science, but more a matter of best compromise, which has room for slight differences each time it is done.
I think it is indeed likely that I set up the 3 saxes in question fairly similarly. The player found the different finishes to play indistinguishably, after a day of demonstrating them all. Of course it is possible that by chance, differences that finishes made in the way the saxes played, were perfectly compensated for by the particular differences in the way they were set up, so that the result was that all three played the same. But that really is stretching the realms of possibility.
"As I said before, I don't know if it's the size or the shape, but on two of my horns, I like the results. The techs I know that actually use these resonators in their trade, all recognise their effects. And not everyone is going to like these effects, but to deny they even exist without any sort of practical experience with them, despite a wealth of subjective reports otherwise, well... it just seems a bit cranky.
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I have not denied that they may exist. What I have done is wonder if the effects noticed may b e from other factors. One of these is possibly changes in set up. Another is the huge area of human subjectivity, particularly auto-sugestion....
Say I develop a visually appealing, exotic-looking new resonator, and market it with all manner of questionable acoustic science that is plausible to the masses, and put a high price on it. And perhaps (as with Straubinger flute pads) add to their mystique by making them available from registered technicians who have attended special installation courses.... Of COURSE players are going to expect something that at least sounds different, and likely better. Otherwise those same people will feel they have been made fools of, especially parting with more money than they should have. This is simply part of being human. So it is only sensible to see any anecdotal claims made about my new resonators in the sobering light of this human condition.
I am not knocking Noyeks. I am applying just a little healthy scepticism, especially as the claims of what people get from them are so varied, including the odd claim of no difference at all.
At one end of a spectrum I would irrationally accept at face value, all positive claims about them, and at the other end, I would irrationally dismiss them. Surely I am not to be condemned for highlighting the fact that all the testing I know of has included huge elements of human subjectivity.
I would welcome reports of comparative testing done in a scientific manner. Until then, I will entertain the possibility that they are in a similar category as the Accubore clarinet barrel, so well marketed a few years ago, and which so many earnest players swore by, but now it is difficult to find any still being used. When I was a teen, if one did not have a crystal mouthpiece on one's Buffet clarinet, then one just wasn't a real calrinetist... How many crystal mouthpieces do you see now?
That is the way it is with the majority of novelties, or simply points of difference, marketed to musicians, who seem to be a rather gullible lot, and who in some countries, have the luxury of sufficient wealth to buy based on belief founded on clever marketing.
