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Discussion Starter #1
My 1936 10M with its original neck is approximately 11-1/4 inches in length. I can get the horn to play in tune, but barely, by pulling off the mouthpiece leaving only about 1/2 inch of cork under the piece. Reducing the wobble is accomplished with a sheet of ordinary Sticky-Notes paper from the office supply store.

What the horn really needs is a neck with an additional 1/2 to 5/8 inches so the mouthpiece gets a better purchase on the cork. Has anyone here solved this riddle short of hiring Gloger for $750 to fabricate a new neck?
 

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What the horn really needs is a neck with an additional 1/2 to 5/8 inches so the mouthpiece gets a better purchase on the cork. Has anyone here solved this riddle short of hiring Gloger for $750 to fabricate a new neck?
Just curious....how did you come to that definitive conclusion ?

Because, honestly....based upon what you have described, the horn is sharp as all heck...so, IMHO what the horn might really need is either:

~ a keyheight adjustment to bring the entire horn into a tunable range with a mouthpieice placed 'normally'

or (in a worst-case scenario for you)

~ a small rabbeted extension soldered on to the end of the neck (brass tubing, seam hidden by the neck cork).

Either fix costs far less than a new neck......

Modern mouthpieces do not make a 10M go wonky up and down in all registers. They often make particular notes or registers go wonky, however. If you really are having such an issue all over the horn, it has little to do with the horn-mouthpiece combo in this instance (although probably a large-chamber, small-baffle 'piece will make the issue less extreme).
 

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I put a thicker cork on mine when I had one, to fit a certain mouthpiece.


...there is what a 1936 10m sounds like with the mouthpiece (otto link or drake) in normal position.
Somewhat irrelevant considering the query is in regard to using a modern styled mouthpiece. Even the one pictured in the video however, looks a bit far off the cork.
 

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I think you should ask Les at Sax Oasis. He plays Conn and specializes in them. Perhaps he will chime in if he sees this.
 

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It's not about being "modern" - there are a good many 'pieces made that will work. The issue is chamber size and shank length rather than date of manufacture.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Just curious....how did you come to that definitive conclusion ?

Because, honestly....based upon what you have described, the horn is sharp as all heck...so, IMHO what the horn might really need is either:

~ a keyheight adjustment to bring the entire horn into a tunable range with a mouthpieice placed 'normally'

or (in a worst-case scenario for you)

~ a small rabbeted extension soldered on to the end of the neck (brass tubing, seam hidden by the neck cork).

Either fix costs far less than a new neck......

Modern mouthpieces do not make a 10M go wonky up and down in all registers. They often make particular notes or registers go wonky, however. If you really are having such an issue all over the horn, it has little to do with the horn-mouthpiece combo in this instance (although probably a large-chamber, small-baffle 'piece will make the issue less extreme).

Yes, key height. You're right to suspect that. I had it done over by a very experienced tech in San Francisco, and either 1) he did it wrong, unlikely, or 2) something else needs address. Since the horn plays so well from top to bottom, and since I've heard from other 10M people they've had the same issue, I will certainly be re-visiting the key-height matter. I hear you about a rabbeted extension but am hesitant to alter the vintage horn. So am going to try a new neck, probably a Warburton. At least they'll let me return it if its wonky.

Thank you for your thinking on this. Much appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hhttps://youtu.be/SZ0ayybeOm0

there is what a 1936 10m sounds like with the mouthpiece (otto link or drake) in normal position.
Oh TraneSpotter....you spotted the engine on the railroad alright. I love Bergonzi and I'd not seen that video https://youtu.be/SZ0ayybeOm0

Needless to say I've bookmarked it. Stellar...!

How do you know, however, he's blowing a *1936* 10M? I looked as closely as the video permits and it appears he's (compared to me) way onto the cork, though Grumps differs. I wish I could get an extreme close up. Anyway back to the *1936*....how so?

PS: Thanks a ton for that video....
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi Grumps & TurtleJimmy,

Yeah I had my tech guy put a thicker cork on. Didn't get it. I think JayPDX is on the right trail with key-height
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Bruce...what's a "nino" mouthpiece...?
 

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I have owned dozens of the vintage 10m horns so I will tell I always get the key heights nice and open.
Obviously make sure your tech knows how to balance the horn properly in terms of the key heights.

As for modern pieces on these horns, I play my 10mfan mouthpieces on my 10M, and there is no issue whatsoever with tuning! All 3 of my models work fantastic on my 10m's. From low baffle to high baffle. They go about three quarters of the way down the neck cork and play beautifully in tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Dr G....yes, chamber size.

I had an Oleg Maestro I wanted to try, but someone walked off with it. I have used Phil Barone's Hollywood, Phil Barone's SNY, a bunch of Morgans including the large chamber 9-L, an RPC 115-B, an Otto Link Tone Master, and others before settling on my present Phil-Tone Eclipse 7* with a Marc Jean to hold the ZZ#3 on. Lovely piece and I am still have Future Jonesing over the piece/lig marriage.

The Phil-Tone is not a pea-shooter, but it's maybe not the biggest chamber either....either way, whatever it is, I love the Eclipse/Marc Jean combination passionately. So am trying to make a way to keep it in tune with more than 1/2-cork under it.

I'd love to talk with Jerry Bergonzi....about his 10M setup, but maybe TraneSpotter knows more than he's revealed. hey hey hey.

Grumps....I agree with you about your definition of "modern"
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Oh Bruce, that's what you meant. But how did you put an extension on the shank. That's curious.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
10mfan

Of course you knew, I'd say...."What...?!?!? Three-quarters onto the cork...!?!?!" That tends to confirm JayePDX's supposition over key height. Which of your models you talking about, Merlot?

There are only three pieces in the world I still want to try. Your Merlot is one of them.

Can't afford it this month---a few minutes ago i just ordered a Warburton Copper Neck after doing my pulse test on Warburton, Goodson, and Gloger. I talked with Kirk at Warburton. I talked with Steve Goodson. I had email conversation with Gloger. Wish I could have done all three on just cuz of GAS. But, I feel really good about the people at Warburton, they'll work *with* me. I may be crazy but it won't be the last time I have heard that.

I will post back here about whether Warburton is or is not my holy grail (ha ha). At least, Warburton will let me return it if it's bonkers. I should get it within 10-days.

Sure wish I could find that Oleg...I know, I know, I know...get my key-height looked at (again).
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I think you should ask Les at Sax Oasis. He plays Conn and specializes in them. Perhaps he will chime in if he sees this.
Thanks 1saxman. I was not aware of Les's Conn allegiance. Turns out Grumps may be right. I went back to TraneSpotter's video of Bergonzi, did a screen shot of the close up and it appears he did two things:

1) Wrapped thick cork over the existing cork, then
2) Slid his piece on. At that it appears it's on over the *old* cork underneath by only maybe 5/8-inch
 
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