Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Alto Saxophone / Jimmy Lyons

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Dig Gonsalves
User ID: 1105234
Oct 7th 5:40 PM
A saint sitting right next to Dolphy.

I'm a huge fan of Jimmy Lyons, who came mostly through Ernie Henry. He took that, and some Bird, into the next realm with Cecil. Unreal. A true, soft-spoken master.

What a bonus to see his BYG-Actuel date, "Other Afternoons" reissued!

www.ayler.com will be issuing a 5-cd box set in the future.

Dig Jimmy.
tim price
User ID: 0164614
Oct 7th 10:54 PM
Amen!!! Here, here!! Jimmy was one of the gods.
I've been a fan from the first I ever heard him play.( Unit Structures , by Cecil)
Nobody EVER played w/Cecil like that.NOBODY.
I knew Jimmy ( and Karen Borca) VERY well..I was a student of his when he lived on Andrews Ave in the Bronx.He helped me to apply for grants as well.
I'd spend all day on a Saturday with Jimmy and Karen playing ,writing, and talking music.
Jimmys sax knowledge, was stunning.He'd run younger guys thru the Universal Book by DeVille
till they were as fluent as water from a tap.
Some of Jimmys other guys other than me were ...Mike Hashim,Bobby Zankel etc.Interesting characters all :)
I dug his stuff on HatHut w/Karen.THAT..was real
freedom, via structure.
Jimmy was not only a great teacher to me at that time but he was a friend and great guy.I really miss that guy.He made a HUGE difference in my thoughts.His alto playing was just STELLAR.
He knew...he knew.God bless that man.
David O
User ID: 0289604
Oct 8th 6:35 AM
About time this guys name got mentioned. The thing that always gets me about him is the sheer focus of his lines, which I guess came through the discipline of working with Taylor. With some free players there is always the feeling of randomness, which is no bad thing, but Lyons always seemed to know exactly where he was and where he was going, some acheivement considering he was amidst the maelstrom of Mr Taylor. And his own work is also seriously neglected, especially the duet recordings with Andrew Cyrille. Its a bit of a cliche to say players are unrecognised, but he's there with John Gilmore (with Sun Ra) as players known more for their associations rather than their acheivments. Damn the music press!!
tim price
User ID: 0164614
Oct 8th 9:06 AM
Don't get me on the jazz press , please.lol-
Imagine IF..Jimmy was 30 today like when he
played whats new"...on that live record w/cecil.
What alto player TODAY sounds like that??!?!?!
They'd put Jimmy on Time magazine. LOL-
That stuff on impulse w/Jimmy and Cecil was done ,Jimmy was still in his 20's.a
The press is off bad, worse than ever.

Dig Gonsalves
User ID: 1105234
Oct 8th 10:43 AM
Tim, do you know another Jimmy disciple, Marco Eneidi? Marco came through town with Peter Brotzmann and they left the place a smouldering rubble. Jimmy would be proud.
David O
User ID: 0289604
Oct 8th 10:58 AM
I have the recent Eneidi disc with William Parker and a drummer whose surname is Robinson. Damn fine disc on all parts, and I guess Jimmy would be proud. Yet again, just too many damn players you never get to hear of except by chance. I only started listening to Jemeel Moondoc after someone on this site mentioned him. I'm with Mr Price, down with the music press until they start recommending some decent stuff to listen to (I exempt 'The Wire' magazine from this tirade as they're pretty darn discerning, though its not solely concerned with jazz). If you read any of the polls, you'd think no new players of worth had cropped up in the last 30 years. I mean, Downbeat give Lee Konitz best alto player?!? I like him, but I figure that they ought move on maybe?
Tim Price
User ID: 0164614
Oct 8th 11:06 AM
Eneidi , yea very cool..nice player.
DavidO..thats the first time EVER Konitz won!!!
Ok.Think about THAT. Lee deserved it but I think its 40 years to late.YES? hahhaha-
David O
User ID: 0289604
Oct 8th 11:14 AM
Okay, fair point re. Mr Konitz, but this is just too depressing for words. Do these people ever listen to any records or do they just pick names out of a hat based on who's alive?!?
Dig Gonsalves
User ID: 1105234
Oct 8th 11:37 AM
Check out the magazine "Signal to Noise."
Altoist Jack Wright was just featured. Moondoc and Eneidi have been featured. Hopefully Rob Brown is on deck (though he may have been in an earlier issue).

BTW, how could Downbeat overlook Sonny Simmons then?

There's also a Donald Robinson trio date on CIMP with Lisle Ellis and Eneidi. Worthwhile.
David O
User ID: 0289604
Oct 8th 11:41 AM
'Signal to Noise' isn't to easy to get in the UK. Picked it up once and was pretty impressed, though the CD reviews seemed very out of date. Still, a good read. And Rob Brown, another good name to bounce around. As for Downbeat, they overlook a fair amount of people, so nothing could be a surprise there.
tim price
User ID: 0164614
Oct 8th 11:45 AM
Simmons is IN Paris as we speak.
I have a trio with him on english hor, me on bassoon and Mike Marcus on clarinet.I love Sonnys stuff.
Jazz NEEDS a serious magazine that has writers that know.Most are just reguritating what they THINK is hip.
David O
User ID: 0289604
Oct 8th 12:07 PM
Its odd, because I bought Downbeat for the first time in an age this month because of the Steve Lacy interview, which was fine. My main problem was the reviews section. It reminds me of the footage of jazz programmes in the fifties where white, bespectacled men smoking pipes would look on and nod in approval as the musician, usually black, did their thing. Now its still the former but now they pass judgement on the various musicians and usually say what they should do to improve their playing. Unless these people play themselves, I don't think they're in any position to recommend how a person should play, and even then, it would be unwelcome criticism. Their point is tell me if its any good rather than to continue to perpetuate the image of the jazz snob. I remember one reviewer saying that some baritone saxophonist should use the altissimo more?!?! What does that have to do with anything, this isn't the olympics!
Dig Gonsalves
User ID: 1105234
Oct 9th 11:42 AM
Anybody else know Jimmy? Study with him?
Tim, was Jimmy able to live "comfortably" in NY? I'm curious how he survived economically in the states in his later years. I know he worked in the Postal Service in his younger days (early to mid-Cecil period).
aanz
User ID: 0512724
Oct 16th 1:15 PM
Hey Dig, where do you live? I'm in Oakland, CA, home to Marco Eniedi and alot of other great players. Marco has organized the Glenn Spearman Festival for the past three years and brought Brotzmann, drummer Jackson Krall, Kali Fasteau and Eddie Gale together this year. (Trumpeter Gale, another local, played on Unit Structures). Donald Robinson is in What We Live with Lisle Ellis and Rova Sax Quartet's Larry Ochs. They should be checked out if you haven't already.

If anybody out there is in the SF Bay Area and likes this music, check out the Bay Improvisers Home Page, lots of info, upcoming shows, music samples and more.
Dig Gonsalves
User ID: 9279843
Oct 19th 2:57 AM
aanz, I did live in the Bay Area until '95 and was tuned into that scene actively. The Luggage Store gallery was getting started at the time and I remember seeing Marco for the first time with Spirit on percussion. There was also an "October Revolution" alternative jazz festival at New Langton Arts. Ahh, the memories!

Now living in San Diego area and lucky to get the odd visit. Though it helps that Lisle hangs out down here quite a bit. ROvA, Marco, What We Live, et al, have made the journey a few times.

What do you know about Jim Ryan? (Oakland-based, I heard...)
Dig Gonsalves
User ID: 1105234
Oct 23rd 5:59 PM
Anybody know what mouthpiece Jimmy's using in the photo on "Other Afternoons"?
It's a big, fat, white, HR piece...

Some kind of Brilhart?
tim price
User ID: 0164614
Oct 23rd 6:23 PM
Brilhart and rico 31/2s.
Old days ::smile::
Then after he used a Berg...later on he did loan
a rubber link I had...but went back to the Berg.
His sound was in his head-he tried a Lawton on a Couf I had once and sounded-EXACTLY LIKE HIMSELF.
Man......I miss that guy.
Dig Gonsalves
User ID: 1105234
Oct 23rd 6:39 PM
right on, Tim.
aanz
User ID: 0512724
Oct 25th 5:08 PM
Dig,
I know Jim Ryan pretty well, he lives down the street a bit (Oakland). He plays around alot with some pretty nice groups.

After a fairly quiet summer, the concert season is starting up here. Saw the Wind Trio of Alphaville (jon raskin, phillip greenlief, phil gelb) a couple nights ago with Joelle Leandre, great bass player. Tonite is Mark Helias w/ Tony Malaby & Tom Rainey.

Alot of the regulars seem to have moved to NYC, but there's usually a good show happening. Is Lisle living down there now?
Dig Gonsalves
User ID: 1105234
Oct 25th 5:38 PM
Obviously, the place to be right now, aanz. Lisle should be there to check out Joelle!
(I hope she's not doing the electronica thing now as well...) Last I saw him, he was doing well and had found a loving benefactor. So whether it'll be more electronix or actual bass artistry, it'll be coming from a healthy situation and mindset. He hasn't performed much, but he's shedding, for sure.
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