Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Alto Saxophone / Those with New Aristocrat Altos

DanO
User ID: 8722703
Jun 29th 10:37 AM
Ive just purchased a closet New 'crat" serial # 246XXX.

I plan on using this instrument mostly for classical with a little jazz thrown in from time to time but will be used mostly for classical..

What would be some ideas about a mouthpiece for it.

If this is any help I play a Morgan 7EL on tenor
And a Super Session 'I' on Soprano
These horns are my primary jazz weapons. The cat will be for quartet work and such. Cant see myself improvising in Eb just yet 8)
Ron
User ID: 1146894
Jun 29th 4:42 PM
Selmer Soloist C or D for classical. Guardala Traditional for R&B, and big band leads. The Morgan 7 (not EL and not the classical one) would be an in-between piece.
Ron
User ID: 1146894
Jun 29th 5:04 PM
That would be a Mogan 6M or 7M.
Bootman
User ID: 1676554
Jun 30th 4:02 AM
JodyJazz play very well on these Aristocrats as do the regular Runyon Custom models.
Kevin
User ID: 9753653
Jun 30th 9:34 AM
A vast majority of classical players that play Bueschers use Buescher mpc's. The were made, obviously, to compliment that particular sax and that would be your best bet. And I would only consider open, round chambered mpc's for these vintage horns....
Ron
User ID: 1146894
Jun 30th 4:42 PM
I have an ivory Buescher mouthpiece that was opened to 0.080" tip. It has a very nice sound, and is different from the mouthpieces I've recommended -- all of which I've actually played with my Big B alto. If I could have only one mouthpiece on this horn, it would be the Guardala, but you couldn't easily blend with other altos using it.

The Jody Jazz sounds OKay to my ears, and you can pop in the spoiler for lead.
Roger Aldridge
User ID: 1439244
Jun 30th 7:29 PM
DanO,

Are you sure about the 246xxx serial number being a New 'Crat? My Buescher alto is in that serial number range and it's a True Tone. I was wondering if you transposed the numbers. 264xxx would be a New Crat.
super20dan
User ID: 0255034
Jun 30th 7:53 PM
the new crats dont start untill 26x,xxx
Ron
User ID: 1146894
Jun 30th 7:59 PM
The Aristocrats, including the later Big Bs, have "True Tone" enscribed on them too (e.g., my 329K Big B alto).
DanO
User ID: 8722703
Jun 30th 8:30 PM
Your right Roger it is a 264XXX
Ron
User ID: 1146894
Jun 30th 10:02 PM
Gayle has a Buescher alto 264xxx on her website and calls it a New Aristocrat. Check out the image:

http://www.VintageSax.com

DanO
User ID: 8722703
Jul 1st 1:06 AM
Yep ron thats right..
The new crat is the one designed for bueshure by the great classical player Rachner..spell check
its across between the true tone and the regular aristrcrat..a little more focused and centered than the aristrocrat..key work isnt quite as nice.
the body and bell also were changed. some nice pics at saxpics.com
Bootman
User ID: 1676554
Jul 1st 3:48 AM
DanO,
I have played a near mint freshly overhauled 264K New Aristocrat in silver plate, it was a great horn but it didn't play quite as freely as my 290K silver plate Aristocrat. I have played several of these model 246K plus Buescher altos, they are all exceptionally good, the sweetest one of all was a gold plate 246K which I sold and kept the 290K silver plate. I needed the money at the time, it is a shame because it was one fantastic sax.
DanO
User ID: 8722703
Jul 1st 4:16 AM
Cool bootman. This horn I found while isnt the most desirable crats around will have to do. The price was right. The condition nearly flawless.
Who knows maybe Ill stumble on the perfect crat in the right range I can someday afford. well its off to kentucky for a week of jazz..im stoked!
Roger Aldridge
User ID: 1439244
Jul 1st 5:33 AM
DanO,

I have to replace my computer keyboard and it's your fault. The 264K 'Crat caused me to drool all over it :) Excellent find my friend!

Regarding a more classical-oriented mouthpiece for your Crat, it might be helpful to look through suggestions in the Classical Saxophone section of the Forum. Selmer soloist, Caravan, and Rousseau appear to be favorites. As Kevin mentioned, I've also heard of classical players using vintage Buescher mouthpieces.

I've never played a Caravan or Selmer Soloist so I'm not in a position to say anything one way or another. The only experience I had with a Rousseau was when I tried one on soprano. I didn't care for it that much. The soprano mouthpiece (C6) that Ralph Morgan made for me gave me MUCH better results.

Since you use a Morgan EL on tenor it might make sense to try an M or L on your 'Crat. I asked Ralph once if his L mouthpieces have the same amount of chamber volume as his classical mouthpieces and I understood him to say yes. The difference, then, is mostly in the baffle.

I'm still experimenting between an M and L on my True Tone alto. I'm getting very good intonation with the L. However, it sounds a bit too dark to me on my Buescher. Ralph is sending another L and an M for me to try out. I'll let you know where I come out.
DanO
User ID: 8722703
Jul 1st 12:46 PM
Cool Roger thanks for the feedback..
I think ill try like a 5 facing on an L first.
I have a small natural throat chamber. I can make any horn sound bright because of it. Thats something that seldom gets talked about. Can the physical dementions of a players chamber make it difficult to play any horn in tune? Stay tuned for further developments..
Roger Aldridge
User ID: 1439244
Jul 1st 4:34 PM
DanO,

Now and then I've wondered if I should try a 5L. But, I was worried that it might be a little too narrow. A 6 feels 'bout right to me. About a month ago I tried a 6M and from the very first note my TT soared. What a difference in sound and response! But, the intonation didn't seem to be quite as good as with the 6L. I'm going to give the 6M another try. I really loved the sound. Perhaps I can make the intonation work.

Let us know how the 5L works for you. This could be a really good general use mouthpiece for classical and jazz.

Yes, the characteristics of our throat chamber are a prime ingredient for shaping our individual sound. Earlier this year I came across an article about how Joe Viola helped Charlie Mariano develop his sound. As I understand it, much of it had to do with opening the throat. You're absolutely right. This is something that needs more discussion.

DanO
User ID: 8722703
Jul 1st 11:53 PM
Holding Roger down on the ground. DanO takes out his handy calipers and make some measurements. (of his throat chamber). Geeze what did you think I was measuring anyway? 8)

Using a slide rule and some quick calculation I estimate that Roger has 15% more volume in his throat and mouth chamber than I do.

Should a player with a smaller natural cavity experiance better intonation with a larger mouthpiece chamber or a smaller one.

I have better luck intonationwise with my soprano using smaller chamber pieces. On my tenor I use a large chamber and have excellent intonation on my cannonball...this is getting very confusing..
I know get a bunch of different mouthpieces and try them all out..well folks budget wise that isnt realistic,, So I have to make an educated guess here.