Sure looks alot like the Saxgourmet series. I contacted noteworthy. They are in fact Taiwan horns.
They brought the costs down quite a bit since the initial offering.
If anything like the saxgourmet build, these may be an excellent deal.
Orpheo Signature series are made in the same plant the sax gourmet horns are made. I confirmed it this afternoon. The problem I have with the signature series is that I have found that a large bell makes a sound less bright. I am a bright player. If I were to buy an Orpheus horn, I would buy the Orpheus silver plated or burnished brass series, which SG did design. At least it has a few perks that the big 6 don't have.
I am not a SG pimp, or anti SG. The fact is, I buy product that is first class, and first class only. I currently play on a Series III. It is the best horn I have ever played. I would like to try the Orpheus series, but not the Orpheo Signature series. For example, the Orpheus Burnished Brass Alto is on eBay now for 750.00.
After spending several grand on my horns, It would be an adjustment for me to pay so little. However, they look well made. Jay Beckenstein (not exactly my favorite sax player however) plays on a Burnished Brass Tenor. This tells me the horns play well in tune. However, I am worried such a material as burnished brass would make my sound too dark.
I am considering buying a second alto as a spare. I play so many gigs, it would not hurt to have a spare horn. Especially for the price.
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Re: Orpheo Signature Series
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Little Sax
.....I am worried such a material as burnished brass would make my sound too dark
Nah... I bought a 'burnished brass' Orpheo tenor thro' Noteworthy - great value for money,especially at the price I offered ! The tenor is very bright, even with the mellower #2 neck - the burnishing is just machined cosmetic swirls, not hammered. That's it on the left...
The high G (G3) key, used with the usual harmonic fingerings, gives me the best, rock-solid, altissimo G3 I've ever had in nearly 50 years of playing. I can even live with the 'G-name' on the side of the bell.
Went ahead and put in an offer.. was accepted. So, will let you know what I think when I receive. Great deals to be had. May just have to pick up the alto for a matching set.
:-)
I received information today from what I consider to be a very good source, that the Orpheo Signature Series and the Sax Gourmet horns are NOT made in the same plant. Therefore, ignore the post above. It is WRONG.
You know, I am very frustrated as a consumer at this point. So many people say something, and later I find out it is not true. There are ZERO saxophone stores by me. NONE. Notta, none. Thus, when I want to buy a Series III, or a Saxgourmet, I can't just drive to the music store in my city and just try all the horns from the big 6 (Selmer, Yani, Rampone, Keilworth, Yamaha, Brancher) and other lines that are more innovative. I have to rely on HONEST information from my peers. Because a lot of information from store owners in the end comes out to be false information. Remember, I have spent 4-6k on Altos and Tenors in my lifetime. Thus, if I buy a horn online, I rely on information, and I appreciate only accurate information.
In the end, I am tired of people ripping on SG horns who have never tried them. I am tired of people hyping every mark VI, saying it is the bomb. Every mark VI I have played on has its own personality. Most Series III's play the same, almost exactly the same. Mark VIs, especially ones with serial numbers farther apart, play very differently. I do not know why. Maybe they are more made by hand, I don't know.
I have been a member of this forum for over a year. I have made posts. Many posts show some ignorance on my part. Hey, I do not know everything about how saxes are made. But when I come here to learn, or a read a thread on a certain sax manufacturer, often it gets off topic. When I spend 5k on a sax, typically, it is over the web, and I don't play it first. I can';t just fly to SC to Saxforte or NO for SG whenever I want. I wish a lot of posters would just stick to the subject. Tell us about your experiences with product, how the product plays. Don't give me info on a horn if you do not know it because you haven't played it.
I bought an LA Sax soprano from WWBW who said it had a high G, I get the horn, it doesn't have a high G key, then I have no idea if it is an LA Sax 615 or 650. Then I ask here. WWBW in their defense, said they would take it back. I chose to keep it because it played better than my Yani straight sop.
Then, I call a dealer *(this week) get information, and a couple days later, I get a message from the manufacturer saying the store wasn't honest with me or did not have their facts straight. This is very disappointing. I do love my Series III, and I do enjoy my new spare sax, the LA Sax 750. I feel like buying a couple more saxes, and it seems I need to get good info first, and from now on, I may have to go out of state to try it, due to all the information that is not accurate. When I buy a Series III however, I know what I am getting bacause I have played a Series II for 25 some odd years. Thus, forums need to remember to be honest in today's age. When people buy second or third horns, (or more), they often buy because they want DIFFERENT horns, and want to be informed accurately of their differences BEFORE they buy.
I don't know if they are the same, but I have a silver plated Orpheo Steve Goodson signature series, with high "G" and is one of the best horns I have ever played.
It has a better tone control than the mark VI i tried, it has a medium bright sound, fat lows and very well constructed and design. I'm really happy with it; the only problem is that you can't get them any more unless you buy it used.
Just because the Orpheo Signature may not made in the same factory as the saxgourmet really means nothing. There are many places in Taiwan that make top notch horns. I would suggest you wait until a few of the Orpheo Signatures make thier way into some hands and a few reviews be made before you purchase one.
I should hopefully get one by next weekend.
By all accounts (from those I have spoken with) these are Pro quality .
But I will surely find out more in a week or so.
Two weeks from now on my myspace page I will put up a song "FM" . I will put one professional recorded version with me playing a Series III alto sax, and another version with me playing an LA Sax 750. Same musicians, just two different gigs, one gig from May, one from July, but different horns. How many people (when I have the versions mixed) would be willing to listen to the recordings of the same song, to tell me what they think the "differences" are???
I WILL NOT tell which version of the song has the Series III or the LA Sax until several have given feedback. I will call one song FM 1 and the other FM 2. Would anyone here like to participate in this? Now, I own both horns, thus, since I have no reason to be biased here, as owner of both, both completely paid off (of course, it is far easier to pay off an LA Sax, far cheaper) just want to see what the feedback is, since one horn I paid several grand for, and the other I spent several hundred for.
I will be honest after a few weeks of comparing both horns, in terms of ease of play, on various aspects of the horns. Also, since the Orpheo horns (not the signature orpheo, but the "orpheo horns" http://www.noteworthymusicalinstrume...rpheoalto.html
have the same "G" key, for the most part, the same features as the LA Sax 750, I believe this is a comparable discussion.
Also, please don't post mis-information. What I mean is, if someone wants to discuss the differences between the orpheo and the LA Sax 750, make sure you have your facts straight. Just for the hell of it, I will buy an orpheo horn as well. I just feel like doing this. I will give feedback on that horn when I receive it. I guess I am going to go with the burnished brass, unless I can find a black nickel one. I like the black look, cool. Since my band tends to record several live gigs a year, it won't be long before I do a gig on the burnished brass horn too.
Has anyone tried an orpheo or Steve Goodson model without the pearls? How does that feel? Also, has anyone tried the sax gourmet, which are not pearls, but made of a different material. Forget the name though.
As per my comment on Mark VIs above, my goal was not to offend. I just find that each Mark VI plays totally differently. Late models different from early models, etc. Each horn is far different from more modern horns. Also, I do not like the Reference horns, too dark for me, plastic resonators, etc.
Lastly, I just played for my wife and several friends, they were in a different room, and I played both horns (LA Sax 750) and Series III, with the same mouthpiece (Dukoff D9) and ligature (Saxxas) and same reed (Brancher 2.5).
Everyone could tell a "slight difference" between the two horns. They actually said that I was "brighter" on the LA Sax 750, which is totally odd to me for several reasons. I sound far darker to myself on it, and I sure as heck do not know why. When I hear professional recordings (live or whatever) of me, I can tell it is me, but I just sound slightly different then when I am actually playing. It is wierd, it is like hearing my speaking voice on an answering machine. Well, this is one of the few saturday nights I am not playign till 2am, so I am off to bed. Kind of nice actually. Sorry for the rash of posts. Well, let me know who is interested in this comparison via recordinds. Thanks.
Bob
PS- You can visit my myspace page now. The song "Juice Box Hero" is recorded on a Series III alto. The song "A Little Sax" is on my Series II, which originally came with plastic resonators in the 80s when I got it, but in the 90s I had a repad done to also put metal resos in it. The Series III was a better horn for me, so I sold the Series II. Got good moeny for it, almost covered what I paid for the Series III. The song "My Sweet Melissa" is recorded on an LA Sax 650 or 615 soprano, which ever one doesn't have the high G key. It was a staight chameleon sax.
Thanks Roby Sax and Wogeax. Maybe I shall wait a week then until you get your horn. I don't know, my investments are doing well right now in this crappy economy, and I just feel like burning some money. I probably shouldn't. I have always had just one alto, sop, and tenor. Nice to have at least one spare, with all the playing I do, and when I need a repair, I can't find techs that do things by appointment, haven't since I lived and gigged in NY.
But thanks for the advice. I think it is interesting that someone is doing something innovative on a saxophone. I mean, a Series III is just ergonomically better than a Series II, and the horn is definately slightly brighter. The ergonomic difference alone makes it far more comfy, and worth every dime. And while Selmer tried a high harmonic key, that was more of a pain, and really didn't (for me) make a difference in altissimo. The high G key for me makes a difference on Altissimo higher than E, al the way up to an octave higher than G. Just easier to hit them. While SG says "keep the reeds wet and practice long tones", I prefer to practice overtones. FOr some reason, I hit more overtones off the Altissimo G key. I am so used to different G fingerings I find the G key not good for the G wehn I want to fly chromatically quickly from say front E, F, F# G, to G# to A, etc. But I can use the old normal fingerings for it. But using the G altissimo with alternative altissimo fingerings, I like the G key a lot. It is still a cool innovation. It is something others don't offer, which makes their horn/and his horns an attractive investment, especially for the price tag. Honestly, More for Less is the best marketing hype you can make.
Orpheo Signature series are made in the same plant the sax gourmet horns are made. I confirmed it this afternoon.
That's interesting. How did you confirm it. Did you talk to the folks at Noteworthy? Did they happen to mention which factory that would be?
Just curious.
John
I hate he said / she said conversations, and this forum is on record. Noteworthy told me they were made in the same factory. However, I was told from a very very good source, that information was incorrect. Plus, this can be verified on the internet:
Now, I want to say something positive about noteworthy. While I don't feel they gave me 100% accurate information, they were very accessable by phone, and were very polite, and delivered my LA Sax 750 to me in a very timely manner. I have jammed on the horn for two days now. The only mechanical flaw, was the cork on the bottum of the F# alternate chromatic key came off. I can easily get it back on. Other wise, the horn was in great shape, and I have no doubt that their technicians looked over the horn. I have not leak light tested it, thus I guess I dont know for sure, but the low notes pop right out. Usually, when I take a horn to the repair man, I see that after playign sax for 30 years, I can play a horn with leaks well. However, obviously, I prefer a leak-less horn.
To also answer your question, Notworthy did not name the factory. I don't know if it is due to Asians prefer factory privacy or not. I did not ask. Personally, I agree with Steve Goodsons statement on the above link. What matters most about a horn is if it plays great or not. I will own several horns, but on gigs in the future make sure I play on the best only, and especially for recording sessions. I did get the roughs this morning from my recording session yesterday, and I am delighted. I love recording songs I compose in particular.
Hey guys, the more I play on the 750, the more I love it. That G key rocks. I don't really use it for altissimo G, unless I am using the left hand index finger to play E and F and F# and I want to chromatically go to G. However, what I really like about that Key is that it makes overtones in the altissimo register sing freely. Thus, playing from Altissimo G to the next altissimo G, that key really makes a difference. I love that key! I think I am officially a huge fan of SGs work. The fact is, his horns are really quality. Say what you will, but the 750 is really on par with the Series III that I own. Nice to have two altos, and I love the lacquer. Those horns look nice. I love my matte Series III look too, but I really like my 750 lacquer. I have a dark green/black finish with Gold Keys. Really sweet. Also, I am getting used to the octave key after practicing only on that horn for a few hours.
Bob
Guys, I spoke with Steve Goodson today. I think he is a great guy, and really was very personable, and spent time with me to answer my questions. I will totally be proud to have his name on the side of my saxophones. I love his innovations, his G key, and his extra intonation key on the left hand (by the B and A keys). Great innovations. Incredible. I would totally recommend them. I would recommend them for your GIGGING and RECORDING saxophones too. I will have new recordings up on my new horns in the near future, and I will have the comparison up between horns too as shared above, after the gig and mixing, which of course takes a little time, for those of you who are interested.
Yes, I did receive it.
I havent gotten around to a full blown (no pun intended) check out.
I am an owner of several Taiwan brand horns (barone, maxtone, mauriat). This one picqued my interest merely for the similarities to the saxgourmet horns.
I am no pro by a long shot. But I am able to tell a quality built horn.
This is certainly a Mauriat System 76 style horn with the few Orpheo Upgrades (triple ring hook, copper finish, bell to body brace located closer to D Key)
I cant say as to the similarity to the saxgourmet horn, but if the saxgourmet is a close cousin to the mauriat system 76 than the Orpheo Signature is just as close.
Although more than likely not built in same factory as the saxgourmet horns.
Can't say with any authority where the horn was made, but surely one of the factories that make many of the other Pro Taiwan horns in that region. No one really knows.. :-)
Out off the box it blew very well. Very even scale and super Low End! Slightly brighter than my old Selmer I had. (of course that could depend on your choice of mouthpiece)
It does have a minor leak I think in the upper register (a minor fix).
It arrived undamaged (phew!). Has the generic tk melody, barone samosonite style case -- which I like and prefer)
I will try and add more as I get more time with it. But for the cost of this horn, well worth a look-see for those looking for a well built horn with plenty of pro options and a super low price for a Taiwan horn.
I believe the current price on these are at 1295 if Im not mistaken.
Grab one for around 850 range and you will be quite happy.
Since the Orpheo Signature Series horn doesn't have a High G key I would not be interested. Does it have the speaker key?
I will probably go with a Saxgourmet, and pay cash for it in person in New Orleans, when I go. If I have to pay extra to Mr. Goodson for the "concert" (which is only to try out some horns before buying) then I have to pay extra.
As I stated above, I love the high G key because it makes the altissimo notes above the first Altissimo G (like from the E and to the next G, easier for me.) I like the fact that my first octave of Altissimo is easier. I actually do not use the G key to hit G, but I love that key, and going forward, will only buy horns that have it.
Thank you so much for your initial impressions, and I shall keep an eye for your later impressions.
Guys, I spoke with Steve Goodson today. I think he is a great guy, and really was very personable, and spent time with me to answer my questions. I will totally be proud to have his name on the side of my saxophones. I love his innovations, his G key, and his extra intonation key on the left hand (by the B and A keys). Great innovations. Incredible. I would totally recommend them. I would recommend them for your GIGGING and RECORDING saxophones too. I will have new recordings up on my new horns in the near future, and I will have the comparison up between horns too as shared above, after the gig and mixing, which of course takes a little time, for those of you who are interested.
Glad you were able to speak with SG. I sent him a horn in April for warranty work, (not set up properly ie his own mouthpiece did not fit either neck and the middle B is painfully sharp) and have heard nothing. I thought he had fallen off the face of the earth. But what the heck, if he holds it long enough I won't have to worry about the warranty because it will expire before I can play it. Sound bitter? Darn tooting.
...I played both horns (LA Sax 750) and Series III, with the same mouthpiece (Dukoff D9) and ligature (Saxxas) and same reed (Brancher 2.5).
So, two different horns using exactly the same reed & mouthpiece proves what?
In my experience this seems fantastic anyone would expect of such a comparison that consistency of the extra-horn components should reveal much without a comprehensive comparison with a large variety of other set-ups; since any reed/mouthpiece combination is so uniquely determinant given whichever particular horn is used.
Or else the author must be implying an unusual consistency with these two instruments, either by brand and/or the two instruments themselves...did I miss where this has been noted or implied previously?
If this Selmer Series III and the LA Sax 750 are known as highly comparable then pardon my "French" so to speak; though in fact the discussion seems to imply the LA Sax horn might be more like the Taiwanese instruments elsewhere discussed.
So, I'll post this reasoning my criticism a sound one, and/or with my claim to needed enlightenment.(?) That said I do appreciate the particular "voice" a mouthpiece adds to the saxophone's expression; and how personal and distinctive each mouthpiece's contribution actually becomes.
Though the difference of that given change between horns is such that some mouthpieces can be rendered unrecognizable while others seem to more easily retain their distinct individuality better. Which would likely become a discernible phenomena capable of more exacting description given a larger experience than my own, that necessarily operates in more a subconscious if any parameter.
My current flotilla of altos numbers three, the first a '29 Buescher to replace a heavily damaged Buescher Windsor tenor circa '99 and my first alto in a number of years though now my only Sax based single-reed, conical bore horn;(there is a hand's breadth long conical bore, single-reed which was made the winter of '89-'90 then modified from five to nine tone holes early in ninety-six which over blows the octave which is nearly as loud as a zurhah yet has people imagining an ocarina until heard since made from remains of a resonite Eb clarinet using the keybody tenons that I've epoxied together to join the barrel and bell parts and last publicly performed on at THE TIPTONS workshop October 7th, 2007 <http://www.tiptonssaxquartet.com> then was driven, heavily damaged-awaiting repair; over coming out of the parking lot of MOJO MUSIC March 7th, 2008 that I spaced out and left on my car's roof after locking the keys in my car, following a fourteen hour drive through the night from Eureka moving myself here in probably the fifth of the eight round trips hauling possessions in and on my '91 Ford Festiva...) and primary instrument.(s)
The others are a '51 Buescher from Saxquest sold by someone in Connecticut that had been in a closet since nearly new, and a Yamaha YAS-23 about ten years old which was bought from an ad in THE DAILY ZIP(DAILY OLYMPIAN) while up from Eureka to listen to Bert Wilson's THELONIOUS MONK BIRTHDAY PARTY PERFORMANCE 10/10/04.(now available from Nancy on a two-cd version...)
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Orpheo Signature Series
The tenor is very bright, even with the mellower #2 neck - the burnishing is just machined cosmetic swirls, not hammered. That's it on the left...
Re: Orpheo Signature Series
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