Dear Gordon (NZ)

[Sax_on_legs]

I recently read a thread about a flute manual that you are distributing. Would you be so kind as to send me a copy? My address is:- sax_on_legs@hotmail.com. I've recently borrowed my sister's 211 Yamaha and thought about giving it a blow to see whether I'll double or not - having had tendonitis problems in the past including my left thumb, I may or may not continue depending on whether my body could handle playing the flute.

I also wanted to ask you - is there a site that has some general information about flutes, such as this one for saxophones or saxpics.com? I'm interested how many are in the flute family, what keys they are in and their history. It would be great if you could point me towards some good links. I'm particularly interested in the alto flute, as I am an alto saxophonist so it would make sense to continue with an E flat instrument. Alto flutes are higher than the standard C flutes, right?

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge!!

Yours,

Sax_on_legs

[Jack W.]

I think it may be in the middle of the night in New Zealand as I type, so I'll try to answer some of your questions first, and Gordon can get the rest. :)

The alto flute is pitched in G, and is a fourth lower than the C flute. There is an Eb sopranino flute, but they are very rare and generally sketchy in the intonation department. At least, I have never heard of one that was well made and played in tune. That doesn't mean there is no such thing, just that I've never heard of one.

I have also never heard of an Eb flute with the same transposition as an alto sax, that is a sixth lower.

The major keys of flutes are (of course) the C flute, the alto flute in G, and the bass flute in C an octave lower than the concert C flute. Even lower flutes exist as well; Eva Kingma offers a contrabass flute two octaves lower than the concert C flute. The WW&BW offers them at only US$19k I believe! The main high flute is the concert piccolo in C, an octave higher than the C flute, although Db piccolos also exist.

There are flutes in other keys besides these, but they are very rare.

Good websites about flutes include those by the British flutist John Rayworth:

http://www.fluteweb.net/

... and the Canadian flutist Larry Krantz:

http://www.larrykrantz.com/

I do not recommend concentrating on being used to playing in Eb. Part of doubling IMHO is getting used to playing instruments in other keys. Similar threads have appeared on this forum when (for instance) players used to playing Eb saxes have asked if it is worthwhile to start on Eb clarinet because they're "used to playing in Eb". The majority opinion here (not that majority determines truth of course!) seems to be that the answer is "no". And I agree with the majority opinion that if you wish to learn flute or oboe, you will have to play in C most of the time, and that if you wish to learn clarinet, you will have to play in Bb most of the time.

At the very least, your ear should adjust to playing in any key unless you have absolute pitch, and even then you can learn to adjust on the fly. Besides, even if you find a good Eb flute (unlikely), you will never get to use it in any standard ensemble, and besides the embouchure on the C flute is different enough from that of the Eb flute, that it will take some time to adjust when you do play the C flute.

Speaking of C flutes, that Yamaha of your sister's ought to be an excellent starter instrument. I cannot speak to the tendonitis issues, but it may make holding the flute inconvenient, or perhaps not. I suppose the only way to find out is to try! :)

I do not wish to seem heavy handed or impose my views on anyone here, and heaven knows I am a rank amateur at woodwind doubling, but this is just my observation and humble opinion on the subject. Others' mileage may vary. :)

[Gordon (NZ)]

How astute of you. It is now 4:40 am here, but my sleep patterns are rather unorthodox.

What I offered is far from being a flute manual. A sax player in Hong-kong wanted to double on flute, and corresponded with me by email for a year regarding flutes and flute playing. As a result, with his progress he highly impressed 2 'live' teachers that he eventually found. It really is quite specific re the issues of going from sax to flute. I put the correspondence together, largely unedited, and this is what I offered. In this forum requests for it gathered an uncanny and almost embarrassing momentum. Although I once taught nearly 400 beginners on flute, mostly in classes, I have been way out of touch with current trends (fads?) in flute teaching for decades. My particular approach to flute playing, as with other topics, is rather analytical and based on my (limited) knowledge of a range of sciences. I have sent you a copy.


You may find this a helpful reference site: http://www.flutes.tk/

Flute forums are fragmented, and nowhere as active as this one.

Possible sites other than those mentioned are James Galway's' at
http://superflute.com./index.html

...and the sometimes wild (because it is unregulated and attracts trolls)
http://www.flute.com/messageboard_2002.htm


An alto flute is in the key of G, a fourth BELOW the standard soprano flute. It is a lot more tricky to play (and expensive) than a soprano flute, and your reason for targeting it is completely invalid. There is an Eb flute, but there would be almost none of them in circulation outside museums.

I have never noticed any key being used more often than another on flute. Indeed, because music is often put in keys more suitable for transposing instruments, the flute playing with them can be in other keys. A player needs to be versatile in all keys. Flute players normally play from flute music, which is non-transposing.

[Sax_on_legs]

Dear Gordon,

Thank you very much for sending me the 'manual'. I also appreciate the links.

Yours Sincerely,

Sa_on_legs in London

[Gordon (NZ)]

I don't know if I mentioned this one.

It is a comprehensive list of links related to flute.

http://www.flutes.tk/

[retiredmilitary]

If you still have the info on playing the flute I would love to have a copy of it. My email is. jwnfld@yahoo.com

thank you

[Gordon (NZ)]

You're welcome. Sent. :)

[retiredmilitary]

Hi Gordon,

thanks for emailing the information to me so quick, the information will be a big help, my biggest problem was trying to get the second octave and above.

James

[retiredmilitary]

Gordon I can't believe how much better my notes sound, after trying your method, I realized I had way to much tension in my embechure (spelling), my second and third octave still drops down an octave, but I know I have to work on getting the right amount of air speed to get these notes stable. I will keep following your instruction.

thanks a million :D

[Gordon (NZ)]

:D Glad to help.

[ChasS]

Gordon:
If you would be so kind, please forward a copy to me. Thanks in advance.
email: cshermer@att.net

[Gordon (NZ)]

Done!

[Jebtha]

Gordon - sorry to bug you; I'm sure these "could you send me one, too" posts can get annoying.

But if you have a minute free.. drbacon@hotmail.com please?

Thanks very much for your help. I've been one who claims to double on flute for a long time, but it turns out my flute playing needs a ton of work. Time to start taking this instrument seriously.

[Gordon (NZ)]

No problem. Done.

[electricninja]

Could I have a copy too?

Pretty please? I'll be your bestest friend!!

x1@jasmusic.com

:D

Also, just a question: have you considered posting it online? Or do you prefer to be the gatekeeper for it?

Thanks!

[Gordon (NZ)]

Sent. You're welcome.

I would want a publication with my name associatted with it to be of a much higher standard of presentation if it were that public. It is not a high enough priority for me to refine it.

[matti]

Gordon,
would you please be kind and send your flute text to ykakym@luukku.com . I think it is time to go through my flute basics before I get too fixed to my errors.

Thank you and best regards
Matti

[Merlin]

Gordon - if you don't mind, I'd love to get a copy of your flute info too....

merlinw@allstream.net

[Gordon (NZ)]

Sent.

[Saxaholic]

Gordon,

Make me the 1,000th person! What prize do I win?!

Seriously though, I'd appreciate it. Thanks so much.

WalterNak8@yahoo DOT com

Saxaholic

[Gordon (NZ)]

Prize! Ha!
Document sent.

[Benny]

With all these requests it must be good!! Can I have one too??

saxomaphone30@hotmail.com

[gary]

-HARRI- -ADMIN -

What would you think about putting this up on the home page for all to download. Surely more request will come. Gordon's being really nice but could we give him a break?

[Gordon (NZ)]

Ah Benny! Just because a lot ask, and therfore a lot more ask, that does not mean it is good!

Gary, it's not really a problem. I'm not sure what putting it on the homepage entails, but that sounds like formalising it to a degree that is not warranted for such an unrefined, disorganised, somewhat 'alternative' piece of writing. LIke I said, I'd want it a lot more refined before I put my name to it more publicly that it is at present.

[gary]

O.K. then, LOL! - how about sending me one also. Gratitude guaranteed.

garysapp@hotmail.com

Thanks!

[Gordon (NZ)]

Done!

[Benny]

That is excellent. I wish I'd had someone explain things to me that simply when I was first learning.
thanks heaps!!

[gary]

Gordon, I'm assuming from the opening request on your e-mail that you do not want return e-mail so I'll post here. THANKS!

[Gordon (NZ)]

Thanks Benny & Gary.

Glad to be of some use. Different types of minds need different approaches. I can't comprehend much of what most music teachers say to me, so my mind must operate in different ways - more analytical and less picturing - which may appeal more to certain types.

I don't mind email.

My opening request is that you don't put me on your CONTACTS list. The scenario is simple.... Many viruses grab MY name from YOUR email list and use it as the 'from' address for some junk or virus-ed email, and send it to other people chosen from your list. Then some server sends me email saying that it has rejected my junk email.

Or I could be the name chosen to send it to, and have to intercept the rubbish directly.

Simple statistics says that if I am on the contacts list of 50 friends, I have 100 times less chance of being involved with these hassles than if my name is on 5000 guys' contacts lists.

(Minor edit made to stop name ambiguity)

[stevesklar]

Benny,
Could I have a copy too? please, please, please ?? stevesklar(at)yahoo(dot)com

I've been thinking about picking up the flute again (if you can consider "again" after 20+ years). And since I have no access to the flute players I once had I figure I might as well read up as much as possible.

Thanks

[Benny]

stevesklar,
the post with the flute 'guide' actually came from Gordon. I think you mistook the end of his (Gordon's) last past as if it was from me, but I will forward it to you anyway. Please note I am not stealing Gordon's work. Also take note of Gordon's request not to be added to your email address book. I would appreciate the same thing too.

[Gordon (NZ)]

Thanks, Benny, for highlighting my abiguity. I have altered the post to avoid further confusion.

[stevesklar]

Thanks Benny & Gordon. Sometimes my fingers move faster than my brain .. i guess it's from playing scales all these years.

[sheller]

Gordon,
Would you mind sending a copy to rr287@email.byu.edu? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

[Sax Kat]

Since everyone else is asking for one, I would like one, too. I'm just starting to double on flute, so I would be really, really interested in looking at what you put together. Could you send a copy to oaklandguy(at)yahoo(dt)com? I would be most grateful. Thanks.

Jeff aka Sax Kat

[stevesklar]

I'll forward it to Sax kat for 'ya all.

[Anonymous]

I bet there is some good info in there for me too. No hurry but I'd love a copy when you get a chance.

blaine@sense.net

many thanks

[Gordon (NZ)]

Sent.

[lowguy]

from highest to lowest :
-piccolo in Eb (very rare I think)
-piccolo in Db
-piccolo in C
-flute in (high) F
-flute in (high) Eb
-C standart flute
-G flute (alto)
-bass flute (in C)
-contrabass flute in F (or "F bass flute)
-octocontrabass flute
-an other one, two octaves lower than the bass flute

[larrys]

Gordon, I'd love to have a copy of your thoughts on flute playing. When you get the chance please send the file larrycsmith@mindspring.com.
Thanks, I enjoy reading your posts.

[Gordon (NZ)]

OK

[Chris S]

I'll jump on this wagon also if you don't mind. I've been having trouble getting my upper ocatves on flute for quite some time, and no flute players have been able to help thus far. I'd certainly appreciate it.

Chris S
TheSonAndAll@cs.com

[Gordon (NZ)]

I'll jump on this wagon also if you don't mind. .....TheSonAndAll@cs.com
Sent.

[Grasshopper]

Uh, it would be great if I could receive a copy of this mail too - I don't play, but I've thought about it and I'd be grateful if you wouldn't mind sending me a copy as well. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, Gordon.

[Grasshopper]

forgot to add my email...

sungjooncho@btinternet.com

[Gordon (NZ)]

OK

[Harri Rautiainen]

Gordon's flute lessons are now available as an Adobe .PDF document:

http://www.saxontheweb.net/Resources/FluteLessons.html

Thanks Gordon for making this to happen,
-Harri

[newking70]

Hey Gordon - on a non sax issue how did the All Blacks do this year? :cheers:

[Gordon (NZ)]

Sorry to disappoint you but I have absolutely zero interest in the All Blacks and rugby.

Rightly or wrongly, I associate rugby with a culture of relative ignorance, macho behaviour and attitudes, neglect of the real needs of wives and families, couch-potato-ism and the associated health problems, initiating young men into a booze-based lifestyle.

I regard sport fanaticism, especially rugby, along with the Treaty of Waitangi, as mill-stones around the progress of my country. Thank goodness its stranglehold has less power than it used to when I suffered from it as a kid.

When I ceased school teaching I also ceased having to feign any superficial interest.