Inexpensive Mpc for a C-Melody

[bassclarinet]

Living in "Belly-Button" Iowa there is no place to look at or try Mpc's. I have two for my C-Melody which I do not like (tone etc.) I want something deeper, like my Bass Clarinet. Can I use either an Alto Mpc or a Tenor Mpc on my C-Melody?? How about some pro's & Con's please. Can I keep this under $100?? :roll:

[goodsax]

I have used both alto and tenor mpc's on a c-melody with excellent results. I preferred the tenor because of the lower, mellower tone quality that resulted, but an alto mpc should produce expected overall higher tones with more of an edge.

[bassclarinet]

Thanks Rob,
Any recommendations for a beginner? Embrochure more based on Bass Clarinet, using Walt Grabner's mpc.

[goodsax]

Actually I know next to nothing about bass clarinets, certainly not about which mpc might be best with a c-melody. What worked for me is an old standard Meyer 5M or 6M HR. I've read that Morgans work great on c-mel's. What you should do is go to
http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=cmelody where you will find c-melody sax afficionados ready willing and very able to address your mpc questions.

[Jon B. Bop]

FWIW,
While I was looking for a C-melody horn last year at Roberto's in NYC, who should walk in but Joe Lovano. He saw that I was trying a Conn, and started talking to me about it ,as that's the model that he plays.

He saw that I was using my O. Link tenor mpc, and suggested I try an alto piece. He said in his opinion Alto mpcs. sound better on c-melody horns with a straight neck, where tenor mpcs. sound better on curved neck horns. Sure enough when I tried an alto, the sound improved dramatically.

Thought you might like to know Joe's answer to your question. 8)

[wianno]

bassclarinet,

Why not set up a "favorite search" on eBay for "saxophone +mouthpiece +C +melody" ? I bet you will get e-mails from eBay within a week or two with new postings of used mouthpieces. I'd go for a Buescher or a Conn with table and rails in good condition. My guess is that you should find something in the $50-75 range.

Runyon (http://www.runyonproducts.com/c.mel.html) can be found for about $60 via web retail, Morgan (via http://www.junkdude.com/saxes/ralph_morgan_mouthpieces.htm) is quite expensive and , I believe, Caravan makes C-melody mouthpieces. To get info on Caravan mouthpieces you have to track down the professor and phone his office for literature. I saw the phone number not long ago on this forum but forget where.

You may find it difficult to get your C-melody playing in tune, top to bottom with an alto or tenor mpc. The dimensions are not in agreement with the sax's cone.

I forget who is making reeds for C-melodies. A bass clarinet reed seems to have the right coverage. You'd have to do some experimenting and sanding and filing.

JFD

[mark_m]

Most of the contemporary C-mel pieces take tenor reeds. I did use to use bass clarinet reeds on an older piece though.

[OLDAIR]

Morgan Protone Tenor $30 w/Alexander Superial 2.5 or 3(More edge and projection)
Rico Graftonite Tenor A5 $15 and up w Alexander Superial 2 (Sweeter tone)

Not only cheap but good intonation.
Your mileage may vary.

[bassclarinet]

These you have for sale or are they available online?

[OLDAIR]

You can buy them just about anywhere. Ideally (IMO) the Graftonite should have about 1/4 inch cut off the shaft to give you a little bit of flexibility in tuning. I may have an extra unused Graftonite A5 if for some reason you can't find one. I used to prefer the A5 over the ProTone but lately I'm liking the ProTone better. You would be hard pressed to find a better mouthpiece for the money than the PT and you can always use it on a Tenor.

[singlereed]

www.myatt.co.uk sell two very economical 'Windcraft' mouthpieces for C melody, one plastic (£15) and one hard rubber (£30). They are both a bit closed facing for me (in fact exactly authentic in that regard, they both played exactly the same as my Buescher originals) but their expert in-house refacer can make it however you want for £25 (about $45 US). Prices are as I recall having paid, you might need to check them on the website or by email.

[Roger Aldridge]

There's not a simple answer regarding using an alto or tenor mouthpiece on a c-melody. It's been my experience that a great deal depends upon the specific make, model, and year of your horn. That is, alto or tenor mouthpieces might work reasonably well on SOME c-melodies and, on the other hand, they can have absolutely terrible intonation on other c-melodies. It can be very tricky. When I got my first c-melody I spent quite a bit of time trying different mouthpieces to find one that had both good intonation and a quality of sound that I liked.

It's my personal opinion that the best mouthpiece for a c-melody is an actual c-melody mouthpiece....in the same way that I use a tenor mouthpiece on my tenor, an alto mouthpiece on alto, etc. If you study c-melody mouthpieces you'll find that they typically have a length that's very close to the length of an alto sax mouthpiece BUT the amount of chamber volume in the c-melody mouthpiece is larger than a comparable tenor mouthpiece. Simply put, the c-melody saxophone was designed to be used with a mouthpiece having that specific length and chamber volume. If you use a mouthpiece that has a different length and volume the horn's intonation can be thrown out of wack. This seems like common sense to me.

Never the less, some players are able to get good results with various kinds of mouthpieces on their c-melody. So, it can be a matter of trial & error to find something that works well on your particular horn.

In terms of having a modern c-melody mouthpiece that has the correct design measurements, a beautiful sound, and excellent projection my recommendation is a Ralph Morgan c-melody mouthpiece. It's on the pricey side. But, I found that it's worth it. I tried every c-melody mouthpiece that I could lay my hands on. Morgan gave me the best results on my Conn and Buescher c-melodies.

[Tharruff]

This discussion about using Alto or Tenor mouthpieces on a C-Sax has come up before and I am always amazed to see people who post that they can use anything but a 'C' mouthpiece.

I have an early to mid '20's silver plated Conn C-Sax with the straight tuner style neck.

Once I got it overhauled I tried EVERY Alto and Tenor mouthpiece that I own on it and I couldn't get ANY of them to play even remotely in tune to the point that I could stand to play on them. And I probably have 30 or 40 different mouthpieces of many different brands and types...

The ONLY two that I could even consider to use were both 'C' mouthpieces with the big round chambers and closed off tips. The tone is stuffy and terrible, but at least I can work with the intonation on both of them.

Playing this horn is not enough of a concern with me to buy a Morgan or a Runyon modern 'C' mouthpiece, but if I were to ever want to play this thing in public, I think that is the route I would go.

I believe that other people make the use of Alto and Tenor mouthpieces on C-Sax because so many people have posted about it...but I couldn't do it ???

[Roger Aldridge]

The micro-tuner style neck on Conn c-melodies (introduced around 1920) makes it difficult for longer mouthpieces to play in-tune. This is one reason why some folks suggest using a Selmer short-shank alto mouthpiece...as the shorter mouthpiece is closer in length to a c-melody mouthpiece. Never the less, I've never been able to have good intonation with an alto or tenor mouthpiece on any of my c-melodies.

I can't help wonder about how much lip adjustment some of the guys are doing that use alto or tenor mouthpieces. Several years ago I traded several letters and emails with Scott Robinson about the c-melody. Scott, of course, is a monster player. He uses an old Selmer metal alto mouthpiece (modified by Joe Viola, his saxophone teacher at Berklee) on a 1918 Conn curved neck c-melody. Scott described how his c-melody is not in tune with itself. If I remember correctly, the intonation in the low register is especially problematic. Never the less, one would never quess that in listening to Scott play. His intonation sounds spot on. This is an indication of Scott's mastery of his horn. If another player picked up Scott's c-melody there's a good chance that it would sound pretty funky.

In the first year of having my Conn c-melody I sent the original c-melody mouthpiece that came with the horn to Ralph Morgan for refacing. He opened up the mouthpiece to .090 and it played significantly better than before. This worked pretty well for me. However, once Ralph started making c-melody mouthpieces (as a special order) I found that his mouthpiece was a major improvement over the refaced vintage mouthpiece that I had been using.

[kcp]

This discussion about using Alto or Tenor mouthpieces on a C-Sax has come up before ...

True. But FYI this one is not a new discussion (check the date on the 1st post) We're moving stuff, see: http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=29986

Your advice is always welcome tho :)