Successful MD get together! [Archive]

SteveS

02-08-2004, 11:07 PM

Many thanks to Geo Wright and David Cohen (OnyxSax) for organizing a fun SOTW outing at Loyola College in Baltimore, MD. I didn't count how many players came, but it must have been a dozen or so.

Quite a few interesting horns made it to the get together as well -- A number of Mark VI's and VII's, 10M's, old Bueschers, other Conns, other Selmers, Martins, SML... There was a bass sax and a couple sopraninos as well. There was a lot of opportunity to try out a lot of excellent horns. In fact, the majority of the outing consisted of general breeze shooting and horn swapping.

We had a presentation by Dave Weiner, who spoke about selection of sax pads, resonators and springs. Also, Keith Bradbury (of MojoBari fame) gave a talk about the art of mouthpiece refacing and experimentation.

Unfortunately, we did not have enough time to hold the jam session we had planned. I hope we can work one in another time. Or perhaps we can schedule another outing sometime soon where we can place an emphasis on playing, and sharing tips about playing, practicing, soloing, etc. If we can bring in a clinician, that would be great too. If not, I think there would still be enough experience in the room to share some ideas.

Judging by the good turnout, I think the Loyola location is a winner. Geo, can we get it again some time?

Sax players are great colleagues. I hope we can all hook up again soon.

All the best,
Steve Scheinberg (SteveS)

OnyxSax

02-09-2004, 02:33 AM

Considering that our first Get Together was four of us in my basement (Bear, John O., Howard and myself), we've come a long way. This was definitely one of the most enjoyable Get Togethers we've had. It was the best in terms of human and horn attendance. There was about 20 of us with over 50 horns. What was remarkable was how many virtually complete lines of horns were represented, such as the following:

Selmer Mark VI: all ranges from Baritone to Sopranino (yes, a Mark VI sopranino) were represented, including the very rare Low A alto. A total of five Mark VI tenors were there and four Mark VI altos.

Conn: Baritone to Sopranino (that's two sopraninos in the same room!), including 3 10Ms from different eras: a 1930s RTH model, a 1950s non-RTH model, and a 1960s era 10M. Also four Conn Baris: a New Wonder Series I, a Chu, an early 12M and a Taiwanese Conn (14M).

Buescher: Bass to Soprano (George Wright owned the bass, all I can say is WOW!)

Other notable horns was the Martin Magna formerly owned by Bootman, a number of post-Mark VI Selmers in all shapes and sizes, including the Reference 54, an SBA alto, a pair of Yanis, a Super 20 & Couf Tenor, an SML alto, a Buffet alto, a Guardala alto, Prestini soprano and my lowly WW&BW soprano, that no one tried :( Im sure I missed some.

But the horns were only part of the story. The best part was the people. It's really great to be in a room full of people who truly understand and enjoy talking saxophones as much as playing them.

Many thanks to George Wright for securing the location and the food! I think this location is a winner. We'll schedule another one for later in the year.

SteveS

02-09-2004, 02:52 AM

Hi David,

I wish I would have remembered to try the low-A Mark VI alto. I actually owned one of them -- Bought it new in 1972 for about $490. Sold it in 1996. Never thought much of mine. It would have been cool to see if that one was better.

Most surprising horn there was your Chu tenor. I've heard it before, but this was ly first time playing it. Really rocks!

Bill08690

02-09-2004, 03:37 AM

Thanks to everyone for a great afternoon of fun playing some of the best saxophones on the planet. I enjoyed trying all the different horns and not having to worry about buying one! Some of the axes were clearly museum quality.

The MK VIs lived up to their sonic expectations as well as some of the other vintage horns like the nice King Super 20 with silver neck and pearl touches. It's hard for me to understand how these great horns fell out of favor.

Finally, I greatly appreciated the nice comments everyone had for my equipment as well. Special thanks to Bootman who put me onto the early Buescher tenors.

Looking forward to the next gathering….

Bill

Jough

02-09-2004, 04:57 AM

I also had a great time. I did not try many horns, but Steves Mark VI and the King Super 20 were amazing. I was happy leaving with what I had to begin with though. Kudos to Dave and George for putting together another great event.

I did miss the jam session though. It would have been fun playing with all the talent in that room.

If anyone is interested I posted the mouthpieces that I have for sale in the appropriate area of SOTW.

Hope to see you all very soon, preferably on a gig.

twowheels

02-09-2004, 12:53 PM

Dave (OnyxSax) and George (geo@loyla.edu), I'll add my thanks for pulling this together! Was great to put faces to all those SOTW names, and probably pretty scary for some of you to see what "cycleboy" looked like. :shock:

I especially enjoyed trying all the horns (SteveS, that Mark VI is one UGLY mutha but it BARKS!). Dave, LOVED the Chu bari and tenor; that Chu tenor just SPEAKS to me, the fullest-sounding tenor I think I've heard. And Keith's (MojoBari) talk about mouthpieces was very enlightening, thanks to Keith for coming down and joining us.

And since Keith (MojoBari) made fun of my SOTW name I'm in the process of changing it...hope you're proud of yourself Keith, I'm very sensitive! :D

Missed jamming too, so we may need to add a couple more hours next time. And like Jough, I'll posting some extra mouthpieces too (but not before I show them to you first, Jough).

Anyway, it was great to meet everyone! Hope we can do it again soon.

KC

P.S. Was good to see "grumps" too, miss his posts on SOTW.

JMac

02-09-2004, 06:23 PM

As one of the returning adult (well, physically at least) players who attended, I can't begin to say how invaluable it was, nor can I thank Dave and Dr. George enough for putting it all together! I picked up a used student horn (Selmer USA As-300) two weeks ago after a 2-plus decade layoff. I was tempted not to go because I don't have a) a "worthy" horn b)chops or c) breath support yet. My reason for attending was to pick some brains, get references for good local techs, and to meet some folks with a shared interest. Every one of those goals was surpassed by far!

The clinics put on by Dave Weiner and MojoBari were fabulous. What a great guy MojoBari is to take the time to travel as far as he did! The horn and tale-swapping sessions were a much needed clinic for me as well. I was able to see how many different 'sounds' could come out of the same horn depending on who was playing, or through a simple change in the mouthpiece. I was able to hear great players have a different sound by changing horns, mouthpieces, and even necks. I could compare a Selmer Mk VI tenor with silver plated Nyaks (sp?) to one with a standard set of pads. I was able to put real live sounds with such 'tonal' terms as centered, bright, dark, stuffy, full, etc. I got more ear-training in a couple of hours than I could have gotten in several months or years.

Of course, the best part of it was the people! I could not have been made to feel more welcome. I wasn't even planning on pulling out my lowly student horn, but SteveS wanted to give it a try. That guy was 'in the zone'. He coulda put a mouthpiece on a paper towel roll and make it sound good! He was a little surprised (pleasantly) at the overall quality and sound for a student horn, and confirmed that I was having trouble in the bottom end from some slight leakage. It was also reassuring to see so many who have returned to playing - I guess we all like to know where not alone sometimes.

The horns were fabulous too. I came home with a severe case of sax envy!! Thank goodness I'm cash-strapped (?), or I probably would have gone home with [I think it was] Jough's Conn 6m Alto. Of course, Gayle's [vintagesax] refurbishing of Dave's Chu Berry Tenor and Bari were just stunning. That's also the only term I can use for the engraving job on Dr. G's Beuscher Bass -by Jason DuMars. One other item that didn't get mentioned earlier was the beautiful Conn C-melody. Was that a restoration? By who? Amazing to hear the difference on the horn with alto, tenor, and c-mel mpcs!

Thank you again to all - it was great fun! Next time I will be picking up and playing the horns, without regard to my ability or perceived lack thereof. It was great to put faces with on-line handles, but I forgot to ask, where does cycleboy come from? Maybe BikerDude now? I don't think you should change it, but then again, I picked a name after watching too many Dragnet episodes er sumthin.! BeuscherBabe is a handle that definitely fits, and a class act to boot! I guess I should clarify that I am referring to her beautiful collection of Beuscher horns! Now I'll have to say 'Go marching Ravens!'

buescherbabe

02-09-2004, 11:39 PM

Wow, thanks for the nice complements. Remember, "Just the Sax Man," if you want to build your chops and get back into reading and playing, what better way than to come out on March 3rd and at least join the Ravens band for parade season. Howard County Fairgrounds, 7 pm. The time commitment isn't as intense as during football season. Todd Clontz at Rosso's will be glad to help get you started or you can e-mail me at ppfftt@hotmail.com.

As far as the get-together Sunday, I'd have to say my favorite horn was the 1935 (?) Buescher tenor sax brought by (someone help me out here). Sorry, I'm not good with remembering names. I'm certainly no horn aficionado, but I thought it sounded great and played so easily throughout the entire range of the instrument.

I tried to cram my baritone mpc onto the bass sax just so I could say I've played one, but it was no go.

Great meeting Screech for the first time. Hopefully next time I can bring my King George friend (also a sax player). And Grumps, I may just head out to Rams Head to see your group play.

twowheels

02-10-2004, 03:29 AM

"BikerDude"...kind of has a ring to it! "Cycleboy" comes from my penchant for two wheels with a motor attached to one of them, the BIGGER the BETTER! 8)

MojoBari

02-11-2004, 05:40 PM

"twowheels" works! One day you'll get over your emotional scars and thank me... or I'll get to the part of the 12-step program where I appologize to all I have wronged. Until then I'll be in denial.

I really liked the location and facility. Thanks for letting me speak to try out my clinic chops for the first time. I had a few more hands-on demos planned, but we were short on time. The jam didn't go off anyhow.

twowheels

02-11-2004, 08:41 PM

"twowheels" works! One day you'll get over your emotional scars and thank me... or I'll get to the part of the 12-step program where I appologize to all I have wronged. Until then I'll be in denial.

Be careful....I have a tattoo! :twisted:

Again, enjoyed your presentation on mouthpieces and hope we can talk you into coming down again.

Bill08690

02-12-2004, 01:15 AM

Hello BeuscherBabe-

Thanks for the nice comments on the '35 Bushcer Aristocrat tenor. I think a lot of players got a kick out that horn, as I do too.

Thinking back to your Soprano, the problem I had might have been touching the Eb key when going for low C. The touches on that horn are small and crowded in some cases so perhaps the player might touch a pearl unintentionally. Your sop is nice and I wish there was a small room to experience the tone more carefully.

The 991 was also a surprise as I have tried them before and didn't get as good tone from the others......

I really enjoyed myself trying all the different [and expensive] horns....

SteveS

02-12-2004, 05:29 AM

Greetings once again, all...

Well, "Just the Sax," glad you had the opportunity to find out what fun it is to hang out with other sax players. Welcome back to playing! Get that Selmer horn patched up a bit, and you'll be all set.

The local community colleges have jazz bands that meet during evening hours, so once you feel like you're ready to play a bit, you might try to find a spot in one of them. After that -- who knows? :)

If you have any questions, you can drop me an e-mail if you'd like. (Address is in my profile.)

I look forward to the next one!

Steve S

John_P

02-12-2004, 05:12 PM

The event was a blast. My thanks to David for setting it up and George for getting the excellent facility.

One of the most fun aspects was watching some of you try out horns. Everytime I looked around, SteveS was running off to a corner with a different axe hooked to his neck.

OnyxSax

02-13-2004, 02:12 AM

Looking back with the benefit of hindsight, I'm sorry I asked MojoBari to cut the presentation short, presumably to have a jam session which never occured. Once we we finished Mojo's presentation, it just seemed to me like everyone was having way too much fun going from horn to horn to pull the jam session off, so I let things ride.

We've had some strictly structured Get Togethers that usually revolve around a clinician, and we've also had some totally informal ones. Overall, I liked the semi-structured format of this past Get Together. The one downside to a "semi-structured" Get Together was that I was flying somewhat by the seat of my pants. For the most part, I think I made some decent calls. If I could change anything, I think I would have let Mojo do his full presentation.

Bear

02-15-2004, 11:45 AM

Wow that was fun! I took about 20 some pics, I'll cull them down to three or four if nobody minds and post them.

OnyxSax

02-17-2004, 02:58 AM

I guess it's time to start thinking about the next one :D

Jough

02-17-2004, 03:13 AM

Do you want me to talk to Phil Rovner about a clinic for the next one?

SteveS

02-17-2004, 04:06 AM

Hi John_P,

Yeah, I felt like a kid in a toy store! heh.... Thanks to all those who were kind enough to let me have a small sample.

I wonder if horn tryouts (or as we say, "wife swapping") is a uniquely "saxophone" thing. Somehow, I just can't imagine the cats in the Baltimore Symphony cello section passing their axes around saying, "Here, dude. Check THIS out."

Steve S

twowheels

02-17-2004, 12:48 PM

I wonder if horn tryouts (or as we say, "wife swapping") is a uniquely "saxophone" thing. Somehow, I just can't imagine the cats in the Baltimore Symphony cello section passing their axes around saying, "Here, dude. Check THIS out."

Steve S

Heh...I want to try out that violin valued at $3 Million ( that's right...not $30K, or $300K, but $3-friggin'-Million!) recently left on a train by an artist from NYC who was a guest violinist for the Baltimore Symphony. I don't play violin, don't know HOW to play violin but I'd sure like to see what a $3 Million instrument looks and feels like! :shock:

(And yes...he got the violin back if anyone was wondering.)

Geez, makes those 5-digit Mark VI's look like a steal! Even that Conn Chu tenor in gold plate for sale on Saxquest for $3200.

JMac

02-18-2004, 04:05 PM

Thanks to all for your words of encouragement! I definitely plan on joining an organized band along the lines of BB and SS's suggestions. By unfortunate timing, however, I just returned to the public accounting arena, and am receiving the hazing of my first 'busy season' in a decade :( . To top it off, one of our auditors quit, and I've been drafted to cover the shortage (shoulda lied and said I've never done audit) :roll: !

As a result - I'm being shipped out to Hagerstown for a multi week audit engagement, followed by tax season, and then cost reports (for nursing homes). No vacation and few free weekends until June. I hate to commit to things and then leave people hanging, so I'm going to wait to see how things shake out b4 I commit. Guess that means I'll miss mardi gras at the ramshead, which I was really looking forward to Grump!

On a lighter note - I forgot to mention another fabulous tenor - the LeBlanc. Great sound, a real beauty, and a neat study in 'elegance in simplicity of design'.

Finally - for any Bari/Bass fans who like classical music, I'd like to recommend a listen to Jay Easton's CD "So Low - Music for Large Saxophones". His Bari arrangements on Serenade Basque, English Folk Songs, Septième solo de concert, and Dark Flows the River are something to behold. I was also surprised at how 'musicallly' [for lack of a better term] he plays the bass, contra-bass, and sub-contrabass saxes. He has a website with MP3s, etc. - jayeastondotcom - replacing the dot with the appropriate punctuation.

Really looking forward to the next get-together, maybe some more of the non-Maryland members will be able to make it!

ps twowheels is a cool handle for one cool dude. Maybe I'll change my handle to tie to a non-sax hobby. Racer-X, Speed Racer, SCCA guy, or Pinto Boy :shock: ? I'll take votes or any (g-rated) suggestions!

JMac

02-18-2004, 05:31 PM

Apologies for earlier post. Confused Dr. G with george@loyola.

OnyxSax

02-19-2004, 06:34 PM

Hagerstown! Don't forget to set your watch back 30 years. :P

JMac

02-20-2004, 08:36 PM

The engagement partner told me to bring an abacus too. I would take a sundial, but I doubt the weather would cooperate! Thank goodness all my friends who live in the area have a good sense of humor, so I'm trusting their neghbors will too and realize I'm just kidding. After all, how could I begin to point fingers when I hang around with folks who race Pintos in West (By God) Virginia!

OnyxSax

02-21-2004, 03:31 AM

I just hope another race car doesn't hit the Pinto in the rear. That would be a mess. Maybe you have a fire suppression system installed in it?

I presume you're talking about Summit Point where you race your Pinto. I have a buddy who has raced his Miata up there. There's a guy over in Rockville who collects and restores vintage race cars and takes them up to Summit Point as well, he has his own cable access show, too. I guess we could start a whole thread on vintage race cars versus vintage saxophones.

They must do pretty good business up at Summit Point. The owner of flies a P-51 Mustang regularly. I've seen it a several local air shows. It takes a lot of bread to keep an old warbird like a P-51 in the air.

JMac

03-01-2004, 04:06 PM

Yes OnyxSax - Summit Point is the place! Two tracks out there now, with a 3rd being added. It is doing pretty well, has it's own driver training courses, is used every weekend of the season -either by us (the WDCR-SCCA), endurance karts (Woodbridge Kart Club), various car clubs (Porsche, BMWCCA, etc.), vintage races, and even (for TWOWHEELS) motorcycles (WERA)! Motorweek (PBS-Md.) does all of their summertime track shots on the smaller Jeferson Circuit. Our race weekends usually have between 220 and 325 cars in ten different races with up to 5 classes or categories in a single race group.

Don't actually own a Pinto myself, but an owner has given me free use of one for a driver's school weekend as a wedding present. Most classes, including the Pintos, must have roll cages, fire supression systems, and racing fuel cells. I do have a pretty good video shot of a Pinto getting rear ended at racing speed with no ill effects!! The other classes in our race are some 'real' vintage cars - like A-H Sprites, MG midgets, Datsun 510s and 1600s, Triumphs, Lotus 7s, and occaisonally a Morgan. For some reason -newcomers get a little nervous racing around the Pintos?!?!?!

I don't think the P-51 actually belongs to Bob Scott, the track owner. I believe it is part of the 'Group 44' collection associated with Bob Tulius from nearby Winchester, VA. Group 44 is best known for racing Jaguars from the '60s to the late '80s. They branched out into restoring warbirds at some point. I've had the pleasure of seeing some of them at shows such as the 'Wings of Eagles' show when it was based in Genesseo, NY. Usually, they fly over during our race weekends if the weather is nice - oftentimes in a T-1 trainer. Your idea of the tread is very true! When reading the threads on vintage saxes I've thought all I need to do is replace the saxophone brand with a car model and it sounds like the 'bench racing' part of the weekend!

OnyxSax

03-01-2004, 11:47 PM

Bob Tullius does own the P-51. It's funny because I heard from more than one source that he owned Summit Point.

Anyway, back to saxophones...one of the deals that was discussed at the Get Together came to fruition. My Buffet alto has a new home with John O., with the proceeds from that purchase, I am turning around and adding Jough's silver Conn 6M to my Conn collection. That horn, and a soprano down at VintageSax that I am about to acquire will bring me up to 10 saxophones -- 7 of them Conns, 5 of them silver horns:

I'd sell off the WW&BW horn if I could actually get anything for it :P

The Buescher C Mel is also on the block. It's just collecting dust in my basement.

JMac

03-02-2004, 06:47 PM

Well, OnyxSax.. I think I spotted a Conn which would fit into your growing family. USA horns has a 1941 Conn Bass posted on their website. It is also in auction on e-bay. The USA Horn site description is as follows...

"Conn Bass Saxophone

Serial #: 298,XXX
Used Instrument
This bass has the original lacquer. Where some repair work has been done over the years, some spot lacquering has been done. This model is rare because it features a high F key. Very few were made this way. The bass has rolled tone holes and the body is straight, except for minor dings. There are fresh pads throughout with plastic boosters and plenty of life in them. The original neck is very straight. The keys are nickel plated. Manufactured in 1941. Case included. Mouthpiece available. "

the e-bay thread is

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=usa-vintage-horn&include=0

I was thinking, if I sell my car and replace it with a scooter, then I could afford to.... wait, what would I carry it in then?

I was also wondering what your thoughts are on the sound and feel of "The Martin" Baris vs. the Chu & 12M?

twowheels

03-03-2004, 03:22 AM

I was thinking, if I sell my car and replace it with a scooter, then I could afford to.... wait, what would I carry it in then?

That's why you need instrument cases with BACKSTRAPS on them! Heh...get a Walt Johnson low-A bari case and strap that on while riding a motorcycle, you're SURE to be noticed on the road then!

Actually I traveled once with my soprano in it's (Bam-manufactured) Selmer lightweight case and it made it just fine.

But you and Onyxsax have hit on another passion of mine...aviation! I'd love to see a restored P-51. The ONLY reason I do software instead of flying is because my eyesight kept me out of military aviation. My father flew B-24's on WW2 and my brother was an F-4 jockey in Nam. I've always regretted not being able to fly for a living...always enjoy seeing the Blue Angels do their thing in Annapolis for Naval Academy graduation.

Hey "Just the Sax", what horn did you just get from Kessler?

OnyxSax

03-03-2004, 03:59 AM

I'd love to add a Conn Bass sax to the family, but I don't think I want to give up one of my cars to do it. I'm still hoping to find that elusive $200 bass sax at a garage sale :lol:

Of course, if I get the bass sax, I'll have to get a matching sopranino as well.

Speaking of airplanes, Geo used to fly F-8 Crusaders for the Navy. Also, you can see Bob Tullius' P-51 at the Frederick Airshow every August. In October, the Collings Foundation guys bring their B-17 and B-24 into the area. Last October, they flew them out of Gaithersburg. I was half-asleep from the gigging the night before when I head a strange sound "Radial Engines" went through my mind. As I pulled open the shades, there was a B-17 coming right over my house. Now THAT's a away to wake up in the morning. Wow :shock:

SteveS

03-03-2004, 05:26 AM

David,

Is the new owner of your Buffet (john O) the same guy who has that SML alto?

JMac

03-03-2004, 02:40 PM

Well, twowheels, just to make you jealous, I got a chance to climb into the pilot's seat of a restored P-51 at that Genesseo airshow! Granted, it was on the ground and for a short photo-op only, but the smile on my face....
It had the reserve tank taken out and replaced with a passenger seat- if only I had enough to afford the 30 minute rides the pilot was offering!

I also got to board a B-17 from the belly. Too many other experiences to list, but each took my respect for the people who built, serviced, and of course flew those machines to a whole new level. Loved the sound of the radial engines, but consider myself luckiest to hear one of the (then) only two flying AVRO Lancasters crank up all four Rolls-Royce Merlin engines and take off from the grass field! Also lucky to see what was then, the largest gathering of P-51s and B-17s at an airshow. Those fliying in from out west were held up by a storm and ended up flying in together in formation The largest included 3 B-17s, a B-24, two P-51s and a couple of T-1s. Sent chills down my spine then, and still does thinking about it more than a decade later.

BACK TO HORNS! If only I were in good enough shape to carry a Bass Sax on my back!

I bought one of those (seemingly) "despised" Taiwanese horns from Dave Kessler. An Antigua Winds 520 Alto in black chrome. It is a copy of the Selmer (Paris) Super 80. The layout is a lot more comfortable for my hands than is the Selmer (USA) AS300. Took delivery on 2/11 and had some trouble playing in tune, particularly the B-C trill key. Dave was great in helping me trouble shoot to find the problem, and was willing to take the horn back (in the pristine condition in which he shipped it to me) and apply the purchase price to any other horn I wanted to buy from him despite that fact that it was past the stated trial period. There was no need. The issue was a visibly tiny speck of the black chrome finish on the tenon (? the part of the crook that goes into the body of the sax) that was just thick enough to cause a leak. Once removed, the only remaining intonation problems seem to be caused by my still underdeveloped embuchoure!

I brought it to Hagerstown with me and have kept it in the tunk of my car when I go to the client (I AM Mr. Paranoid). It has seen temperature variations from the low teens to the 70's (and above when being played) with none of the ill effects I've read about other Taiwanese / Chinese horns. No 'pearls' or felts coming off. I'm very pleased so far, and plan on keeping it as a backup and MARCHING RAVENS sax when I step up to a nice vintage horn. Although I guess the Cannonball Black Raven would be more fitting for the marching band!

Speeking of vintage horns. OnyxSax - I was wondering how the Silvertones (Conn Stencil for Sears) compare to the actual Conns? My curiosity was piqued by the one shown on CyberSax
http://www.cybersax.com/4Sale/Saxophones/Altos/Saxophones_Alto.html
I was also curious if anyone compared the Martin Magna to the Conn Baritone's, or if anyone has any general comments on the Conn sound vs. the Martin sound in Bari's.

OnyxSax

03-03-2004, 06:08 PM

Steve S: Yes, John O, who owns the SML alto, is now the proud owner of the Buffet.

As far as comparing the Conns to the Martin. I was not overly impressed with the Magna, but then again, I did not spend an incredible amount of time on the horn either. It felt very heavy, both in terms of physical weight and mechanism action compared to to the Conns. I played another Martin bari years ago and recall that the action was very heavy as well.

I did spend considerable time bouncing between the Chu and 12M baris trying to find some difference. If there was a difference it was so slight to almost be negligible.

I'm not so sure on the stencils on whether they were copies of the "upper line" horns, or the entry level horns. I know a couple of guys who play stencils who swear by them. Going stencil is a pretty inexpensive way to get into the vintage sax game, but only if you want to sit on the horns for a long time. Stencils are not appreciating anywhere near the rate of the name brand horns that they are based on.

OnyxSax

03-03-2004, 06:13 PM

I just checked the link. My opinion is that the horn is overpriced. You can get a very, very nice "name" brand Conn for that kind of money.

JMac

03-04-2004, 04:39 PM

I was curious why a stencil was going for more than the brand name at other sites. With the growth of e-bay and the cost of labor these days, it must be tough to find worthy horns at a reasonable price that can be rebuilt and sold at a profit?

I saw in another string on later model Conn 10Ms that even their prices are creeping up, and some who've played them side-by-side feel that the quality is not as far off the horns of the '30s to mid '50s as others have suggested. In this 'new paradigm' (ooh I hate that term) would $1,300 to $1,500 be anywhere near reasonable for a Silver Matte finish gold wash bell 10M 'Naked Lady' from '57 or '58 that has been "rebuilt, re-padded, and set up" by a reputable firm? How about buying the 'previously used as a doorstop' horn for $300 and having that refurbished a la the job Gayle did on your Chus? Would that be more reasonable, and / or worth the headache?

Sorry to keep asking so many questions - but I guess I caught vintage horn fever (or sax-envy) at the get-together. I hope to branch out to Tenor and Bari eventually and need to develop a game plan (darned accountant types can't do nothin' without a plan).

Thanks for your very respected opinion!

OnyxSax

03-04-2004, 06:23 PM

The price for the 1957 10M does not seem too unreasonable, especially if it is in decent condition. As far as the doorstop horn, you'd have to check the condition. A full restoration is going to run you $1300...which puts you in $1600 on a horn that may not be worth what you have sunk into it.

The advantage to the restoration path is that you can have the horn customized to your specs before the plating goes on. For instance, the straphook on my Chu was moved, I had a 10M bis pearl put on the horn and had the pads of my choosing put in the horn. It all looks perfectly normal on my horn.

In my case, I bought a horn that I thought was in better condition than it was. I was facing an overhaul, which would put me "upside down" on the horn, so I decided to go with the full-restoration. At least in that instance, I was breakeven or better.

The Conn bari was a project that I always wanted to have done. It made very good economic sense, as Chu bari prices skyrocketed, but it was also a sentimental decision as I wanted the bari to be restored...it deserved to be restored.

JMac

03-04-2004, 06:54 PM

Thank you for the advice! I am curious which pads you chose and why? I remember hearing SteveS, TwoWheels and Grump swapping Mark VIs, one with Nayoks and one with the traditional Selmer pads, and being amazed at what a difference it made in sound! Did you find that a particular type of pad would enhance the Conn Tone or add something that you felt was missing? Do you feel that a Conn with 'Selmer Style' (plastic domed resos) would be of a lesser value than one with Conn Res-O-Pads? What about the music-medic type kangaroo with Nayoks?

I would promise not to ask anymore questions, but I guess two weeks of auditing is turning me into the 'Grand Inquisitor' -sorry.

I didn't get to see the Bari before the restoration, but the result is simply stunning. Beautiful sound and great to look at. Maybe my wife will say that about me someday (for now I just scare the cats)?

OnyxSax

03-04-2004, 11:49 PM

The Chu Tenor has the Selmer-style resos. My current Conn straight soprano also has the Selmer-style resos, and the one that I am about to purchase, I specified the installation of the Selmer-style resos. I like the warmer sound of the nylon resos. While this is not the "traditional" pad & reso found on Conns, I don't think it has any effect on the value. I really have no experience with Noyeks or the other more exotic pads and resos.

My Conn Bari has the Conn resos, and so does my Conn Curved. For the bari, I like the extra cut of the metal resos, especially considering how modest my mouthpiece setup is (HR Berg Larsen 105/1).

The jury is out on the Conn Curved sop and the effect of metal resos. I don't have anything to compare it to except the straights and that really isn't a fair assessment.

I'm going to try to dig up a "before" picture of my Conn bari to give you an idea of what I started with. Some of the MD guys like Bear, John O. and Steve S? saw the horn before it's restoration.