Cheap German system clarinet?

[paulwl]

I was messing about with a 13 key/5 ring Conn Albert clarinet awhile back and finding it murder on my right hand. I got to wondering if one of the latter-day German system horns might be any better in that department.

In a curious mood, I surfed over to eBay.de and searched "Klarinette." I turned up student model 22 key/6 ring German system horns priced around 200 Euros. The brand name is "Roy Benson," which turns up as a muy cheapo brand of brasses, flutes, and Boehm clarinets. These are sold in many countries – but not the German clarinet.

My questions are whether anyone here has run across one of these horns, and whether they're any better/worse than the typical Far East throwaway product. I'd just be using it for experimentation and practice because I'm curious about the "not-so-simple system" (specifically its possibilities in chamber jazz).

I notice most of the eBay sellers will not ship outside Europe, a few not even outside Germany. Just as well?

Danke im voraus (= TIA)...

[alexh]

Paulwl,

I can't imagine that € 200 is a reasonable price for a half decent German clarinet, unless you are very lucky.

IMO, the really low-end products (e.g. from Czech republic) are mostly unplayable.

Here is a Yamaha clarinet for € 590 on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23296&item=3775595 076&rd=1

Good medium level brands are Yamaha and Schreiber, among others.

It holds for clarinets even more than for saxes that you can get good instruments at fair prices if you look for used ones- if you try them before buying.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Good luck,
Alexh

[Merlin]

I've seen some Amati German system clarinets here in Toronto for about $600 CDN brand new.

Let me know if you're interested Paul, and I'll play test some for you.

[Tully]

I'd defnintely be interested. Thanks a lot!

[paulwl]

Hey gang: I finally did get a German Amati last year (ACL 342) and it's a very fine horn for the money ($500 & change from WW&BW). I don't use it often, after all - it was mostly an experiment - and would consider selling it. It's virtually new...

[Tully]

How bad is the right hand spread? Also, are the fingerings generally simpler (or more sax-like) than a Boehm system, or pretty much the same?

[Dave Dolson]

Tully: I can't say anything about the Amati, but every simple-system clarinet I've played (I've owned several over the years, including an Eb Albert-System clarinet) had a definite right-hand finger spread to them - enough that it became uncomfortable after a short while. Plus, the slight variations in fingerings (the forked Bb, the saxophone-like high C) were just enough to really screw up my playing.

I went back to Boehm and never looked back. I know a few Albert players and they do fantastic on the simple-system clarinets, but I'm not that talented. They are a struggle for me. DAVE

[alexh]

From my perspective, the German system clarinets' fingerings are much more intuitive for sax players- most of all, you don't have to deal with these tricky left-hand-right-hand-pinky combinations...

For professional clarinetists, both the German and Boehm system have their pros and cons.

[SAXISMYAXE]

Some of my favorite Jazz clarinetists in the history of the instrument played Albert system clarinets, and I love their technique and tone. However, my personal experiences with this system led me to abandon it in favor of the Boehm system for the very same reasons described in the other posts.

[Dave Dolson]

Mike: You are right on the money about older jazz clarinetists . . . Sidney Bechet being maybe the best of the bunch. Johnny Dodds, Darnell Howard, Jimmie Noone, Jimmy Dorsey, George Lewis are among many great Albert players.

Currently, Evan Christopher, Peter Meijers and Walter Sereth come to mind as fine Albert-System jazzers. DAVE

[Tully]

Paulwl, how is the hand position on your Amati? The slightly-more-intuitive fingerings are what draw me to the ALbert system, but I'd hate to lay down the cash for one only to find that I can't really hold it.

[paulwl]

The ACL342 is really pretty hand-friendly as simple/German/Alberts go. I found it much easier to adapt to than my 1921 Conn - you can actually seal the right hand and keep it sealed while still learning the scales and fingerings :) ...As far as sax-like fingerings, yes, it has some, but the key thing is that there are fewer alternate fingerings than on a Boehm clarinet, and those that do work are often somewhat more awkward to use. It's a long story, but basically the Boehms work better in flat keys and the s/G/A in sharps.

[Dave Dolson]

Tully: "Slightly more intuitive" is VERY slight. The only similarity is the L2 fingering for F/C. The forked Bb/F (R1 and R3) was enough for me to throw in the towel. That one is definitely not intuitive to saxophone. DAVE

[paulwl]

Funny, with me it's the "other" Bb/F fingering. The one where you have to add the side key to A/E. I found myself in too many situations (such as playing fast stuff in Bb or Gmi) when neither it nor the forked fingering was truly workable.

German jazz players, BTW, overwhelmingly play Boehms (or Böhms as they call 'em over there).

[super20dan]

i am with you paul -thats the fingering that trows me off -it just isnt natural! the right hand fork fingerings i can sort of handle.

[Merlin]

It'd be interesting to come up with a hybrid Oehler/Boehm system.

Keep the upper joint of the Oehler, use a Boehm lower joint. Maybe add the rollers and sax-like roller keys, but use the Bb/F first finger that Boehm has.

It'd be easily done, and would make a clarinet as close to sax fingering as possible.

[Dave Dolson]

Yeah, Paulwl, I completely forgot about that side Bb fingering. Oy! DAVE

[super20dan]

merlin -thats a great idea.there is a oboe w/sax fingerings .one is one ebay now -and the jackels are going nuts for it! i think a sax friendly clarinet would sell.