Winter NAMM 2004 Report

[DaveKessler]

Got back from the Winter NAMM show in Anaheim late Sunday and took a day to catch up on back work before finding time to write this.

So heres my report:

Asian Invasion
Let me say... The Chinese are FAST learners. The level of improvement in 1 year was unbelievably HUGE. For instance, last year, there wasnt a single Chinese tenor that played even half way decent. This year, between the 20+ Chinese tenors we played, only 1 wasnt a decent horn... and we found one that was a Great student horn (more on that one later).

Heck, we even found a wood Chinese made Bassoon that played in tune and REALLY well... but was still a little uncomfortable.

We even found an alto that is an appearant copy (or at least designed like) an Yanagisawa A991. This horn was more then exceptionally good. It outplayed many Taiwanese made horns out there. So needless to say, we are going to import this as our private label "Solist" student alto. They had a tenor as well but it wasnt the equivalent Yani based model. It played great as well but they do have a Yani based model that was only a little more. So we ordered a sample of 10 of each. We will have to report on those once they come in.

Guys, its here. The day of the disposable musical instrument is now. They have gone the way of the TV, microwave and every other basic electronic component. When it breaks too bad, it is cheaper to replace it then repair it.

Selmer Reference 54 Alto
Man these are great horns. I have a couple in stock now. Sadly, from what I saw, there was Very LITTLE interest in them at the show. I think that 90% of the dealers and players there were more interested in lower priced items then the high end.

We ended up taking one of the show Reference 54 altos home with us and it looks like it was hardly played and after wiping off the fingerprints (the few that there were), you couldnt tell that it was at the show.

B&S Medusa
Wow. That sums up the alto. Wow. Big improvement over the previous series (2001). The new Medusa tenor is the same horn as the 2001 series but with different engraving.

The alto was by far one of the best there is and at a Very affordable price range. Brand new, I would sell a Medusa alto for around $2350.00 in gold lacquer.

LA Sax also had their "Chicago Series" alto there. It is made by B&S after close inspection (stamped Made in Germany) and played very well... but was WAY TOO MUCH MONEY. It was about $800 MORE then the Medusa. Sick really.

Other Side Notes
Didnt see any really huge name players there this year. This was probably the lowest professional presence I have seen in recent memory. I did see a notorious repair person that will remain nameless promoting a certain sax. But I wont go into that here.

Also, very low priced cases coming out of Taiwan that were fantastic! We are going to order some of them for sample as well. But we are talking about a High impact ABS contoured case with an outside accessory pocket (like an SKB Pro Series) for about $50 - $60 consumer cost.

LeBlanc was surprisingly small at the show. Had very FEW horns there. Didnt even have a Single Yanagisawa soprano at the show. Sad really.

Overall, it was the same ol same ol NAMM show. It is always fun to see people you only see 1-2 times a year. Its very interesting to watch the Chinese progress at the rate they did. I give it 5 years MAX before all student instruments (including the major name brands) are made in Asia. Heck, Conn-Selmer, Inc. is already starting that trend.

Be glad to answer any questions if you like. Post here or e-mail me at music@kesslermusic.com

[Gandalfe]

Excellent report Dave. Please tell us when the low-priced contour cases are available. I'll need three, one alto, one tenor, and one bari. :D

[Morry]

Dave, what can you on a black nickel B&S Medusa tenor?

[Mike Ruhl]

Thanks for the update, Dave.

[KEN K]

I am coming to the end of my career repairing horns and I am glad I can say that and not that I an just starting. When people can get a new horn for the price of a overhaul repair repair techs have a problem. I don't know what cheap horns will do to the profession.

I had two repair customers come in today and they each had a sub-standard cheap horn that were new and did not play.Neither one was anything I was going to work on. I told them they need to buy a quality horn. They both left. I made nothing on the repair.I lost time talking to them about the horns. They were my only customers today.

I would not know how to advise a person that want to start learning to be a repair tech today.

[JL]

KEN K, so I guess the vintage market isn't big enough to keep repair techs in business? Very sad, if true. And sadder still to see saxs go the way of cheap, disposable items. I hope that's not really the case, but who knows?

[pknight]

Serious players are going to want quality pro-level instruments no matter what happens to the price. If the Asians can produce inexpensive pro-quality instruments that these serious players would buy, then saxes may indeed become "disposable." However, if we are talking primarily about producing very-low-cost student instruments of good quality, then the price pressure may be limited to the student market.

The old Chinese curse seems doubly appropriate in this case:

"May you live in interesting times."

[KEN K]

I have all the work that I can do however I have been around for a while. I am thinking about the future . Most repairs do mostly student work and that is what pays the bills. Now if you are a top guy and you do pro work that is a different story. How do you become a top guy? You start on student work and work up. I think really good repair techs are going to be hard to find in the future.

[Dave Dolson]

KEN K: Do you play tuba, too? If so, I think we worked together on the S.S. Lane Victory a couple of years ago. If you are that guy, I had the brace of silver TT saxophones in the band.

Anyway, I did not attend NAMM (thanks, Dave Kessler, for the report), but my experience with the cheaper Asian saxophones has not beem good. Yes, I bought a new Antigua sop from Dave Kessler, and yes, I play it more than my other sops (on gigs, too), and yes, it was relatively cheap (under $1K), but I don't think complete overhauls have yet reached the $1K level - have they?!

Still, I realize that many students (read: parents) are buying these really cheap horns and they will soon need repairs, but probably not complete overhauls. It has been a while since I had a horn overhauled, but I seem to be making regular visits to my favorite repair-tech (Rhueben Allen, who is a lot closer to me than is Ken K) for touch-ups on my new Yanagisawas and numerous vintage saxophones. In fact, I'm planning on taking him my A992 for some pad-sealing today.

And from what I've been told, a repairperson can make more money from small repairs than from complete overhauls (a time-related issue, as I've heard).

I am not a repair-person (it takes me three nails to drive one straight, if you get what I mean) and I'd guess that repairpeople will still be able to make a living in the future. All saxophones, regardless of quality, require regular attention. Good luck, repair-techs! DAVE

[DaveKessler]

Ken K,

We too are a big repair shop and have had to address the same issue. This is how we look at it now.

When a Chinese horn comes in that wasnt bought from us, we initially charge a "Minimum Setup" since 99% of these horns are not set up all that well. On a clarinet or flute, thats $40. Sax is $80. We then proceed to tell the customer that we cant warranty repairs on these horns because they do not meet a certain quality level.

This helps us in 2 ways. One, we keep the repair customer and in most cases do VERY well with them. Two, we keep the customer because the only other repair center in town works only on their own product (Yamaha), and dont do it very well at that.

Now thankfully, the quality is improving. But it also comes down to whether the dealer wants to go through the hassle of finding the good horns and importing them and the needed parts for future repairs.

It isnt easy but this is where the student market is going... so we have to adapt.

[KEN K]

Sorry Dave I dont play tuba.

[Dave Dolson]

KEN K: Well, then I guess you're not the guy I was thinking of!! DAVE

[AMASAX]

DaveKessler - thx for the update, have one question:

* you referred to Selmer/Conn going the way of the Chinese/asian import...

can you give details - do they still make Selmer/USA horns in
Elkhart, or is ALL of Selmer/Elkhart's stuff made overseas??

thx

[DaveKessler]

DaveKessler - thx for the update, have one question:

* you referred to Selmer/Conn going the way of the Chinese/asian import...

can you give details - do they still make Selmer/USA horns in
Elkhart, or is ALL of Selmer/Elkhart's stuff made overseas??

thx

Thanks for asking, I knew I should have put more info on that.

They currently are Still Making USA student horns under the following names:

Armstrong
Artley
Bach
Conn
Emerson
King
Selmer

Then they have Taiwanese made horns under the following names:

Bach Aristocrat
King Tempo
Conn Director
Selmer Aristocrat

Then the Chinese instruments SHOULD be labelled:

Prelude "designed by Bach"
Prelude "designed by Selmer"

So far, these are the only names that they are putting on them. For the most part, they still make all the USA made product minus a few models that are being discontinued.

In their dealer catalog, they are specific on the USA made product by listing it as "Bach USA" or "King USA". So far, there are no models under the Armstrong, Artley or Emerson name in the asian made instruments.

[Neil]

Actually, I believe there is an Emerson flute that is being made in China now. I don't remember the model number, but we had one in our shop that the Conn-Selmer rep. left for us to check out. Seemed to be a typical Chinese made instrument.

[DaveKessler]

Actually, I believe there is an Emerson flute that is being made in China now. I don't remember the model number, but we had one in our shop that the Conn-Selmer rep. left for us to check out. Seemed to be a typical Chinese made instrument.

The Chinese flute that they have shown me was Prelude by Selmer. I agree that it wasnt all that great. The piccolo was surprising.

[Neil]

I'm pretty sure it was an Emerson. The metal looked different and it had a fairly bright, thin sound. The case was different as well, had a shoulder strap attached to it.

[Morry]

I've been told that even Powell is outsourcing some stuff to China. Supposedly they are offering a student flute that has their famed Boston headjoint, with a Chinese made body.

[DaveKessler]

I've been told that even Powell is outsourcing some stuff to China. Supposedly they are offering a student flute that has their famed Boston headjoint, with a Chinese made body.

Morry,

You are somewhat correct. The Actual Powell flutes are still all USA made. They have a sub-brand called Sonare Winds. They have 3 models under this name. All 3 models have a Powell Signature Series handcut silver headjoint.

2 of the models, the bodies are made in Beijing China under the control of Powell.

The other model is made in Taiwan under the control of Powell.

We have been carrying them for about 5 months now. They have Quickly become my best selling flutes. The least expensive model, the 5000, has a silver plated body, open hole, low B foot with the Powell Signature head. This is a flute that I sell at $995.00 and it outplays Everything in its price range.

It catches a lot of people by surprise when I tell them after they have already played it that the body is made in China. They all remark that the key action is superior to the solid silver Armstrong & Gemeinhardt flutes that they try it up against and that the Sonare flat out outplays them.

[Morry]

My local retailer friend has also said that it is his best, and best selling student flute.

[zadu]

Interesting report Dave, especially your comment about the advance in China's instrument quality over just the past one year period. I guess that just because one is able to make instruments for a Sam's club kind of price point, that doesn't mean that they all have to be that way. Just a few years ago I hadn't much good to say about some of these imports, but am no longer prejudicially negative about them. Now we are starting young students out on horns that are extremely ergonomically advanced over what was available in the "student" range 15-20 years ago. It seems like intonation and eveness of tone has improved too. Also a good option for a budget concious doubler, I guess that if a horn is sturdy and can be played in tune it may not much matter where it was made.

I'm kind of curious though about just exactly what you mean about the bassoon that played well and in tune, but was "Still A Little Uncomfortable"!
Malformed touchpieces?, Lack of rollers?, Handrest positioned too low?, Bad Vibes?
What's the scoop :?:

[DaveKessler]

zadu,

Primarily, the bassoon's grip didnt seem designed for a modern hand. Its key placement was basically not laid out ergonomically correct... kind of like older student saxophones...

That should be easily fixed though and we gave them suggestions, all of which they seemed very eager to listen to and actually take notes on.

[Jack W.]

The Actual Powell flutes are still all USA made. They have a sub-brand called Sonare Winds.... We have been carrying them for about 5 months now. They have Quickly become my best selling flutes. The least expensive model, the 5000, has a silver plated body, open hole, low B foot with the Powell Signature head. This is a flute that I sell at $995.00 and it outplays Everything in its price range.

I found one of these at one of my local music stores yesterday. I assume the one I saw would be the next model up. The specs were silver body tube (with presumably plated keywork), B foot, offset G, open holes, and a Powell Signature headjoint.

Almost the first thing I noticed was that the barrel of the body joint is clearly stamped MADE IN BEIJING, PRC. I found this very refreshing as I'm really tired of MADE BY GERMAN [or FRENCH] ENGINEERING. As I said to the salesman, it's not like those of us who do our research don't know when something's made in China!

The construction of the flute "seemed" solid to me, but I will use tentative language here since I have never worked on flutes and can't really tell whether the construction IS solid, as opposed to just "seeming" it. I can only say that some thought "seemed" to go into the design of the keywork, and I could detect no slop. I also noticed that the keywork was not the same as on my Dimedici 1011RBS, which has the same specs except for having an inline G mechanism (which explains a few of the differences but not all) and pointed key arms. I did think some of the corks/felts on the Sonare were too thick, particularly on the F#-to-Bb linkage, but since the pads all "seemed" to seal and I could play low B easily, perhaps it doesn't matter.

The headjoint cut wouldn't have been my choice as I require more resistance than this one offered. Also I'm one of those weirdos that actually prefers an inline G mechanism. But the flute did play well from top to bottom, with good intonation and evenness across the register breaks. I just like to see more of a dynamic range, for which again I require more resistance, but that's just me and your mileage may vary. The tone was bright but serviceable, and I felt I would have no problem projecting in an ensemble situation with this flute.

I didn't look at the price but I assume that this flute would cost in the $1500 range, to compete with the Dimedici 1000-series and similar flutes. My general impression was positive and I walked away thinking that perhaps Powell was smart to get into the under $2000 market.

[DaveKessler]

Good review.

Yes, you played a model 6000 which I sell at $1450.00

There is one model higher, the model 7000 which is $1995.00 that is made in Taiwan (like the diMedici) and has the pointed key arms (like the diMedici.

The 7000 is a much bigger and brighter sounding flute.

You are correct that the Signature Head isnt as resistant as the standard diMedici models but it was designed that way. The Signature head was desgined to go with flutes more in the price range of students and therefore shouldnt be as resistant.

So far, our experience has been wonderful with them. No problems to date.

[zadu]

Thanks for the explanation re: the bassoon, Dave.
I've thought that my Linton should be modernized many times!( lol, it's really probably me who should be modernized though).

[DaveKessler]

Just an update, that one Bassoon company has a new model that I should be getting a sample of in about 2 weeks or so. Supposedly, they claim that the overall hand placement and mechanism "feel" has been improved. We will see!

[Jack W.]

... particularly on the F#-to-Bb linkage....

F-to-Bb linkage. At least I hope so or several third octave notes wouldn't exist. Sorry to butt in but it was bothering me and I couldn't edit my post again! :)

Now where were we, bassoons? 8)