Please Help--Identifying Chord Changes

[Mel]

Hi. First of all I'm going to say that I'm new to this whole improv thing, so any (and all) help is appreciated.

I'm soloing for this song, and I was wondering how you can identify all the chord changes by just hearing/reading the melody. (I only have the tenor sax score.) On the other hand, I'm also not sure I know how to apply the chord changes and guide tones to my solo. All advice is appreciated! Thanks.

[egoulet]

Unless you've already got many years under your belt of hearing changes, you cannot identify changes from just the melody. If you had 5, 10 or 20+ yrs on piano or guitar (chord-related instruments) and you really understood chords and changes, fundamental harmonies of scales, etc then you might stand a chance at hearing melody and knowing the changes. You should get the changes to the song you are working on and then learn scales and arpeggios that apply, that would be a good start. Stick with the melody, stay near the melody in the beginning til you know where you're going. Then you can branch out. btw, what's the song?

These are the first steps of a long journey, enjoy!

[Mel]

Thanks for the reply, egoulet.

After some searching, I have found the chord changes for the piece I am working on--"Autumn Leaves" music by Joseph Kosma, arr. by Peter Blair. It's written in G-major, but I am not sure which E-minor. The chord changes are as follows:

A-7 | D7 | GMaj7 | CMaj7 |
F#-7(b5) | B7 | E-7 | E-7 |

I understand that the piece alternates from G-major to E-minor, but I'm not sure about:
1.) Which E-minor scale is it, and how can I tell, and
2.) How can I reflect the chord progressions in my solo? I try to play the notes from the chord, and I work in a few arpeggios, but I am still not sure that my solo based on the chord progression.

Coming up with ideas is not an issue right now, I just want to know how I can base my solo on chord progressions so that an experienced player can listen and go, "Oh! That's a II-V-I-IV or so on..."

Thanks!

[Mel]

To add on to my previous post, I also try to work the guide tones into my improv, but it still doesn't have the flavor and conflict/resolution that the melody has. So how can I change this and add some flavor?

In terms of chords, I have had 8-9 years of classical piano experience, so maybe you can try explaining how I can identify the progressions in my solo. :lol: I have a recording where the rhythm section is playing the chord progression (well-equipped! :wink: ), and I have no trouble recognizing that. But I get confused when I'm trying to find the progression in the melody and in my own soloing.

Thanks again!

[kcp]

Agreed. It takes many years of experience in order to acheive this. Not just playing experience but also transcribing. If you can sing it, you can write it. So you can start-out by transcribing simple melodies that you know and then get into more difficult ones as you progress. I also suggest that you always buy music that contains the melody AND the chords on top. Eventually, what you could do is use these to write a bass line and a 2 or 3 part voicing. Then, with time and experience you'll be able eventually to tell the chords based from the melody only. This is difficult stuff, though it get easier the more you do it. But is something I wish I would have started doing earlyer.

Welcome aboard :D

[larry]

This is going to be incredibly foreshortened, but one way to improvise an interesting melodic line through the changes is to look for common notes between the chords.
A-7 | D7 | GMaj7 | CMaj7 |
F#-7(b5) | B7 | E-7 | E-7 |
For instance - here you have 2 4-bar phrases and the last two bars of each phrase have G-B-D-E in common (assuming that you use 2nds and 6ths), so you can try to create some parallel patterns to take advantage of that.

In the same way that G7 and E-7 are nearly the same chord - the first two bars of the song (A-7/D7) contain pretty much the same key notes (A-C-E-F#)

Also, try to take advantage of the descending pattern you've got going on: A-(D)-G-(C)-F#-(B)-E. If you emphasize that downward motion (A-G-F#-E) it'll hint back to the original melody.

Does that help or just confuse things?

[Gandalfe]

Working with an instructor who specializes in improvation is the way to go. My current instructor just figures these solo's out on the fly. But he played with major big bands for years and he has a masters in music. I don't have the chops or the time to work this out on my own, so I am learning about chord progression, memorizing the keys, and picking up some vocabulary (growls, turn-around, and the like) so that I can do a creditable job soloing. It will take years, but like the man above sez, learning can be half the fun.

[gary]

Mel - one trap beginners fall into with this tune is the fourth chord. Taken just by itself, it looks like a tonic-type chord, but it isn't. It's the IV chord of G, so when you are looking for notes to play on that chord, stay in G; that means you're playing a F# not an F.

You can use the G scale for the first four bars. Then for the next four (the minor cadence) a short cut would be to play the harmonic minor scale of the target chord (E minor) over all four bars.

My suggestion is that, even though you're now playing only two scales over eight bars, is to land on the various chord tones so that the harmony doesn't sound static in your melodic line.

In other words, even though you can play a G scale over the C Maj7 chord, don't be emphasizing the notes from the G chord, but notes from the C chord.

[Mel]

Wow, thanks for all the tips.

one way to improvise an interesting melodic line through the changes is to look for common notes between the chords.

That is a very interesting way to look at it larry, I never considered it that way before. I tried it, and after a few hours of practicing and recording today (instead of perusing the forum :wink: ), I think that there is definitely more direction in my melody.

If you emphasize that downward motion (A-G-F#-E) it'll hint back to the original melody.

I can imagine how a downward phrase can serve as a cadence, but I'm not exactly sure how make it "hint back to the original melody." :oops: Maybe you could elaborate a bit please?

Gary, I've been trying to put in more notes from the chord as you suggested, but I'm curious: which notes would you use from the harmonic minor? When I played the harmonic minor to see which notes comprise it, I noticed that it had a very peculiar feel to it, almost as if it didn't truly fit. (This also occurs when I try to find the minor scale for some other charts.)

Also, if there are any brave souls interested in doing a 16-bar improv with the chord changes above for Autumn Leaves, I would be very interested in hearing a recording to see the possibilities. :lol: If you need, I'll try my best to provide the rhythm section accompaniment.