If someone where to give you one of the two...

[G_WannaBe]

...which one would you take - Selmer Super Action 80 II soprano or Selmer Mark VI soprano?

Thanks!

[Morry]

I'm not sure. Which would bring me the best trade-in on a Keilwerth? ;-)

[Dave Dolson]

I'm not trying to be nasty, but this appears to be yet another comparison test. Comparisons like this cannot be done objectively. If you are actually being offered one of these two models, give us that info - and the details. Otherwise . . . DAVE

[Mike Ruhl]

I'd take the Mark VI, sell it on ebay for a considerable profit, then buy a new Yanagisawa.

[G_WannaBe]

Okay, I guess this can't be as simple as I thought. A local store has a used SA80II that I played and liked. I have not played a Mark VI. I was just wondering, for those of you who played both, which one did you like better? Sound, intonation and feel? Sounds like neither.

He also is a Yanagisawa dealer, but out of S901 and S991. So I can't try those.

[Hurling Frootmig]

The VI soprano doesn't have the reputation of the rest of the VI's. The keywork of the VI soprano is vintage. The intonation is going to be much nicer on the Series II. The Series II is going to be much more affordable and a better horn - IMHO.

[Dave Dolson]

G_Wannabe: Thanks for the clarification.

I've owned and played MkVI sops. I've also tested SA80II sopranos (and once owned a Serie III sop).

Hurling was spot-on about the VI's keywork and questionable intonation (plus the ones I've owned/played would not speak with authority on the high notes - hi C and above).

Give-aways are one thing, buying is another. I wouldn't buy either one unless 1) the price was REALLY low, or 2) one of them played better than anything I've ever played before (and that's going a long way). If the price was REALLY low, you may be able to turn a profit on it.

Otherwise, I can think of several other models I'd prefer, including Buescher TTs, S991/2, Rampone & Cazzani (straight, tipped, or curved), and the new Antigua. I know many posters urge playing a horn first, but I've purchased three Yanagisawa sops, a R&C tipped-bell and traded for a TT, sight-unseen and all were great players.

Risky maybe, but I'd bet the ones I bought/traded sight-unseen would be more satisfying than either of those Selmers. And, while I played the Antigua first, (actually four Antiguas) you probably could buy one of those sight-unseen and do well by the price/value equation. DAVE

[G_WannaBe]

Great!!

Thanks Dave,

That was just what I was looking for.

[G_WannaBe]

Thanks Hurling!

[OnyxSax]

The later Mark VIs (after production of Mark VI alto & tenors had ceased) are not bad. You could argue that these were "transitional" models. Selmer added a "bulge" to the neck to help out playability and intonation issues. The keywork adopted the more aggressive spring rates of the Super Action 80s, and these horns came with high F# keys.

The palm key position and lack of a frontal F do harken back to the days of the Modele 22, which essentially is the same horn. However, Oleg does make kits for the Mark VI soprano to address the key placement weaknesses. With these modifications, the later Mark VI is a much more competitive horn.

I owned a 296,xxx Mark VI. It was a "hard luck" horn that always seem to end up in the wrong place at the wrong time, and took some pretty hard knocks. (My tenor was operating under the same conditions, and never got a single scratch). I traded it away after I acquired a Conn Straight soprano. The tone on the Conn was better. I ended up trading the Mark VI for a Conn Curved. I still debate the merits of that trade.

To answer your question, I would choose the Mark VI, provided it had the aforementioned Oleg modifications.

[jd]

im not a soprano player at all(im a tenor/alto player ) but i did have a few sopranos over the years. i had a conn curved soprano and i could not for the life of me get it even close to playing in tune. what kind of mouthpiece works with those older 20s conn curved sopranos? i wound up ebaying it and only got 775.00 for it. then i had a mark 6 soprano and really never gave it much time. i had trouble with intonation on it too. the only soprao i ever could play and sound ok was a yamaha 62 that i trailed like 15 years ago or more. i thought it was really easy to play and get a good sound out of.if i was to take up soprano again which soprano do you guys think plays easily in tune? (for someone who just wants to fool with one ) im not sure if i want to put in the time to be great at soprano but i do like the soprano sound. when in tune!)yani?new yamahas? new selmers ?kielwerths? thanks

[Morry]

My new Keilwerth SX90II soprano is a tremendous player. I heartily recommend it. Unfortunately, it'll be the hardest of the big brands to find used.

[jd]

thanks morry. ive tried thier tenor and alto models and i think they are really great horns. im going to see if i can find one to try locally.

[RS]

I'm not a soprano player either (mostly bari) but I enjoy playing the little horns in my home. I have checked out the new Selmers (Series III), Yamaha Custom, and Yanagisawa curved models 901 and 992. All of these horns have good intonation and play well. I find the curved Yanis to be the most comfortable to play. Like a little scaled down alto. The new curved model Yani in bronze (SC-992) is an amazing little horn with a great sound.

[OnyxSax]

jd - I play a hard rubber Otto Link 5* on my 165,xxx Conn Soprano. It's definitely a good match for the horn. One mouthpiece that does NOT work are the square chambered Selmers.

[jd]

thats the exact mpc that came with the conn curved. a old selmer square chambered piece. no wonder! thanks

[Paul Coats]

In 1972 I purchased a new 199,xxx Mk VI soprano. It has all the faults mentioned above, and no, it did not come up to the high standards of the Mk VI alto, tenor, and bari. I played it for 25 years, and finally sold it. I can assure you the Series II is far superior in keywork, response, and intonation.

[Dave Dolson]

My 109xxx Conn Bb straight sop plays well with Selmer S-80 (square-chambered) pieces. I have two S-80s with the barrels cut short so they fit on vintage sop necks. The regular S-80s' barrels are too long to shove on the neck far enough to come to pitch. But the shorter S-80s are right on target for intonation. DAVE

[OnyxSax]

That's interesting Dave about the S-80s. How did you get the moutpieces cut down?

What I like about the HR Link is that it is probably fairly close to the kind of moutpiece available when these horns were designed. I actually play a vintage Conn moutpiece with the 26k curved soprano. It feels a lot like a Yamaha 4C.

[Dave Dolson]

Onyxsax: Years ago when I was playing S-80 G and J's, I asked a local repairtech in Kalispell, MT (I was living in Whitefish at the time) about the possibility of cutting down the barrels so they'd shove on far enough on my Buescher TT sop (the high octave vent pip/rib interfered with the bottom of the barrel). He said he'd give it a go.

When he returned them, they were nicely shortened and the ends were machined smoothly and rounded somewhat. They looked like factory-made short S-80's albeit without the extreme taper of the regular S-80s. In comparison to the new Super Sessions (which play even better on all of my sops, and yes, I use both the S-80s and SS pieces), the shortened S-80's are the same length as the Super Sessions.

I've owned several vintage sop pieces (Buescher, Conn, Woodwind) and yes, they played for me even worse than do the stock pieces delivered with Yamaha and Yanagisawa sops. I don't know how those original jazzers (Bechet, Buster Bailey, etc.) got that full sound from their set-ups (of course, I don't use or have really hard reeds - maybe that's the trick). DAVE

[3saxes]

My first soprano was a LeBlanc Vito about 25 years ago. It served its purpose as a good first shot at soprano. About 10 years later I upgraded to an SA80. I gave the Vito to my flutist sister for a second instrument, and hated that decision for years. I could never play anything over high D reliably and wasn't aware of all of the advancements in mouthpieces at that time. After my Mark VI Alto was damaged being jammed into a trunk on a road trip, I visited a local music store for repairs and brought the SA80 soprano along to have it checked out. The salesman told me there was nothing wrong with it, but I sold it on ebay and bought a Serie III. Amazingly, I could play the entire register and a few altissimo notes.

Subsequently I sold my VI and bought a full compliment of Serie III's, Soprano, Alto and Tenor (3Saxes) and after myalto fell apart in my hands, one of the techs sold me on Couf/Keilwerth, although only Keilwerth was available at time, so I purchased an SX90II and struggled with the high register again above high D, then after joining SOTW, heard many great reviews about Yanagisawa and purchased a S9930.

Love at first sight and of course, no problem with the high registers. Now I am a Yanagisawa advocate, and play both the S9930 and just received the brand new SC9937. They are a match made in heaven. I went with the curvy because of tendonitis in my right wrist. It's been a week so far and no pain whatsoever!!!!

I also still have a Keilwerth SX90R Alto/Tenor and Yanagisawa A9937/T9937. (In different cities - so I don't have to travel with them)

Don't know if this helps the thread, but it felt good to tell the story!

Selmer :~( Yanagisawa :~)

[Ol Danl]

OnyxSax mentioned the bulge added to the neck of the later Mark VI's. Why was that not a sufficient change to the horn to give it a change of model number? Anyone know about when that bulge appeared -- what serial number? I know the 138k (1967) I have doesn't have it. I guess it is a bit of a struggle to play in tune -- especially when I'm not playing it a lot (like now).

[Dave Dolson]

I once owned a MKVI soprano, purchased new around 1978 or 1980 as I recall. It had the step-neck design . . . and it had poor intonation. DAVE

[G_WannaBe]

I went and played the SA80II again, only this time I took my horn. I have a WWBW house brand soprano. They look exactly alike, feel exactly alike, and unfortunately they sound exactly alike. Although the SA80II has alot better intonation, I couldn't justify the price tag.

The quest goes on!!! He still didn't have any Yanagisawas in stock, so I guess I will have to wait a little while longer to try those out.

Thanks guys!

[G_WannaBe]

As it always is

[Lenny]

I've tried a number of Mark VI soprano's- some of them had lousy intonation and some were incredibly wonderful instruments. Try before you buy. They vary enormously.

[dolphyo]

i own a super action two since 1987 and love it. i've played plenty of mark vi's and didn't like any especially with the stock scroll shank. never in tune. my only gripe with the ss action is the right hand key placement could be a lot better.

[1saxman]

I wouldn't keep either one, but I'd take the Mk VI because I could get more for it. Then I would start hunting an exotic soprano like a silver Yana. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Selmer player and always have been, but not the soprano.

[Lenny]

Well guys all I can tell you is today I visited my repairman who had a local SFran player's Mark VI sop for sale ( he found himself a silver VI to replace it.) This thing had the most beautiful liquid warm rich sound. It was beautiful, and the intonation seemed fine though I didn't spend time with it. $3200 was more than I had though.

[G_WannaBe]

Well Guys and Gals,

As the story goes on, I finally settled on a new sop. I picked up a Mark VI the other day. I got it cheaper than the used SA80II. I finally got to try the Yana S901 also. I liked it alot. The action on those things is awesome. I just liked the Mark VI a lot better.

The Mark VI has great action also, and personally I like the keywork. The left pinky table sets up great for me. I have pretty big hands, so it always frustrated me when I had to "reach" back to finger low C# on the modern table. It wasn't very comfortable for me. The palm keys are a little weird, but I am pretty much used to them now.

My WWBW house brand sop had terrible intonation. It would leave me so frustrated when practicing, that I would just quit all together and go watch TV. I hated that. Well, the Mark VI has great intonation with a big, huge, fat centered tone. It is so exciting to play a great instument. I got home from work the other day and started playing at around 5:30PM, I knew I had been playing a long time, when I looked up I noticed it was 1:00AM. I just can't play enough now.

Good luck to all and thanks for all the suggestions!

[Perfect Pitch]

Hey congratulations!!! You are now the owner of a fabulous piece of history directly linkable back to Adolphe Sax. My 328xxx sop has served me well with a Yani 8* metal piece for some years. There are saxes with easier intonation but at least this baby has substance!
Happy blowing 8)

[G_WannaBe]

Thanks Perfect Pitch!

There may be saxes with easier intonation, but there are a hell of a lot more that are harder. Believe me, I own one that is now a lamp.

[OnyxSax]

Congrats on the acquisition. You may want to look into the Oleg modifications to bring the horn up to "modern" standards. Then you get the best of both worlds -- the sound of a vintage soprano with the keyword advantages of a modern one.

[G_WannaBe]

Yep, I already have. I have the F key and the right palms on the way. Right palms are pretty high up there.