Can a Sop get a "clarinetish" sound?

[Jon B. Bop]

I'm a late bloomer who's been working at learning the tenor for the past 2 years, and I'm toying with the idea of getting a soprano.

In reality, I'd love to play the clarinet, but I tried it early on and came to the conclusion that it is impossible. :x (you folks who play it are my heros!)

So, my question is, is there a soprano, or a set up, that will give the horn a sound closer to that of a clarinet? For use in New Orleans jazz, or dixieland.

Before you start yelling at me, I know these are two different instruments, but I have no experience in this, so I'm wondering if it is possible.

Thanks for your input.

[Dr G]

Mmmmmmm, no. Not to my ears - of the many sop sounds I've experienced, none has been faintly reminiscent of a clarinet.

[Morry]

Can a Sop get a "clarinetish" sound?

If you're not careful. :-)

[geo@loyola.edu]

According to Benade (Horns, Strings, and Harmony, pp. 230ff), the answer is no. He says, "... conical-bore instruments contain all ingredients that are whole-number multiples of the played frequency, while the cylindrical-bore clarinet in its most characteristic register (the low one) emits sounds in which only the odd multiples of the fundamental are noticeable."

[Jon B. Bop]

OK, maybe I'm asking the wrong question.

How about this;

Anybody have experience playing or hearing a soprano in a setting that might traditionally be handled by clarinet. Specifically New orleans style jazz.

Didn't Sidney Bechet?

[danm]

I play some clarinet pieces in our big band. It never sounds like a clarinet but I wouldn't want it to. I like the sound of a soprano better, I just do not have the same octave range on the soprano that the clarinet has. I think it will do well with New orleans style jazz. TGFS=Thank God For Soprano!

[paulwl]

Anybody have experience playing or hearing a soprano in a setting that might traditionally be handled by clarinet. Specifically New orleans style jazz.

Didn't Sidney Bechet?
Yes. Of course he played clarinet too, and importantly, he didn't try to make them sound alike – except for an incredibly intense, wide vibrato.

As far as the soprano itself, no, I can't quite imagine it sounding like a clarinet. Even at its darkest and mellowest (curved 20s horn, factory setup) it has a more altolike, sometimes almost flutelike, quality.

Sopranos work best in Dixieland when the player can put some funky, bluesy spirit thru the horn. Bechet would wail, and growl, and purr, and arpeggio out a fast background riff like Jimmie Noone's clarinet, and soar up above the lead like Armstrong's trumpet on top of the band.

[Dave Dolson]

Jon B. Bop: I've played soprano for about 48 years now, and it is ALL traditional jazz. Bechet is a hero to me, as are several current sop/clarinet folks in trad jazz (Bob Wilber, Stan McDonald, Walter Sereth and George Probert to name four).

I am primarily a soprano player in the high reed chair with the Golden Eagle Jazz Band (a laid-back, four-beat New Orleans' style jazz band in SoCal) these days, but I use clarinet and alto in the band. There are a few tunes on which I use clarinet but mostly it is sop or alto.

Amen, paulwl, Bechet was maybe the best of the traditional clarinetists, along with Jimmy Noone and Johnny Dodds (Noone and Dodds being primarily clarinetists, but Bechet played clarinet a lot - his recordings on clarinet are terrific - EGYPTIAN FANTASY is one). Yet, his soprano filled the high reed role even in his early days (1920's) with Clarence Williams (and Louis Armstrong).

Feel free to use that soprano in the clarinet chair. DAVE

[Jon B. Bop]

Thank you guys for your input.

If I'm going to go out now and purchase a horn, would any particular one be better for playing in this style? Any other suggestions re: best horn to buy would be appreciated. (any price range is OK)

Thanks again

[Dave Dolson]

Jon: I use all of my sopranos (but not at the same gig). For instance, last Sunday at Steamers Cafe in Fullerton, CA (with the Golden Eagles), I had my straight Antigua (model 590LQ) and my curved Yanagisawa (SC902 with straight neck) on stage. I moved between those two mainly to test how each horn played in that venue. In the past, I've used my Buescher TTs, Conn, and Yanagisawa S992. It depends upon which one I want to use on any given gig.

I count myself among the trad-jazz purists, yet I don't insist on using a vintage instrument (which, I'll admit, is certainly authentic in my kind of music). But it has been my experience that most soprano saxophones with good scales will serve my purposes . . . and do it well.

As for recommendations, any of the Big Four (Yana, Yamaha, Selmer or JK) are good choices, and pricey. I prefer Yanagisawas, but that's just me. If you want to consider a lower price, the new Antigua is terrific. Finally, if you insist on being authentic, contact Gayle at vintagesax.com (or one of the other vintage-saxophone dealers who frequent this site) and obtain a good vintage soprano from her (them). A good vintage sop can be had for a little more than a new Antigua. However, any that I mentioned (and many others) will work for trad jazz. DAVE

[Lenny]

I've been somewhat after the same thing because I'm playing Klezmer music. It will never really sound like a clarinet but I try to go for a rounder sounding mouthpiece. Just try em all. I like the vandoran S15 but that's a pretty closed piece.

[Jon B. Bop]

Thank you all for your input.

FYI, I've ordered a Buescher TT from Gayle, which should arrive any day.
I'm excited about getting to work on it. I'm anticipating a challenge to play it well, but what the heck.

Thanks again.
Jon

[Jack W.]

I will defer to the others on using a soprano sax to play klezmer music etc., since I have no experience there. However, I did at one point wonder the same thing about getting a soprano sax to sound like a clarinet. I'm nearly positive that you could find a post from me on the "old forum" archives where I asked what mpc I could use to get it to sound like a "loud bright clarinet".

The answers were all that I couldn't do it, and that if I wanted to sound like a clarinet, I had no choice but to learn the clarinet. I must admit that everyone was right. Soon I had to learn the clarinet anyway in order to play in pit orchestras, I was more or less dragged kicking and screaming (figuring that alto and soprano sax were hard enough for Flute Boy to play acceptably), but it was worth the effort to become somewhat functional on clarinet. What a sound! When I can get it to behave, that is. :shock:

If you have the opportunity to learn clarinet, or it becomes desirable for some reason, I'd say to face up to it and do it. Yes, the redundant pinky keys are tricky (I still never use the LH F/C key if I can at all avoid it), and the registration in twelfths will drive you batty (unless you've spent some time on alto recorder), but these keywork issues can be surmounted and I think the sound will get you in the end. :)

On another topic, you will love the TT soprano. I had one from Gayle also that was a killer horn, which I only sold because against all odds I found a soprano that I liked even better (Pan American, Conn stencil). Gayle really knows her stuff and will treat you right.

On yet another topic, I see you're from my old stomping ground as I'm a displaced New Jersey boy. I hope you pronounce it correctly, with two Gs: "Lawng Gisland". :D

[1saxman]

You can get a 'clarinetesque' sound on a soprano, partricularly a curved or semi-curved (with the curved neck). The trick is to play it like you want it to sound. You have to think clarinet. No matter what you do, it's going to sound like a soprano in the lower notes, so you'll have better luck in the high ranges. I had a gig last year with Larry Raspberry, and he has a tune that starts with a Dixieland flavor. There was a clarinet ad lib at the head of the tune on the record, and I covered it on soprano (semi-curved). It went over big with the crowd and Larry. I was playing a metal Otto Link 8* at the time, but now play a Guardala 'Liebman'. The Guardala managed to take all the 'duckiness' out of my WW&BW horn, and it would've sounded even more like a licorice stick if I'd had it for that show. Normally, I don't like the clarinet sound and avoid it like the plague, but it can be done.

[Straightsax]

Have to agree with 1Saxman. Among the groups, two have a clarinet in them. In the upper register and beyond with a dark mouthpiece and classical reed, it's almost imperceptable. Not so in the first register, the sax is a lot brighter. When playing the same note, one can't tell which instrument is which. On the other hand, if one is using a step baffle like a Dukoff, ya ain't gonna sound like a clarinet till the cows come home. It's in the setup and the embouchure.

However, there is nothing like the real thing, if that's what one wants.

As always, Peace.

Chris.

[OnyxSax]

I find that my 1925 Conn can get a much darker, rounder tone, than say my Mark VI soprano could. The tone of the Conn, particularly for klezmer music, seems to be more than appropriate and only the strictest of "purists" comment that the soprano is "not a traditional klezmer instrument".

[Lenny]

I do notice the register issue. In the lower register it is clearly a different sound. It's been commented to me that it sounds more like a violin or a cross between a violin and a clarinet. In the upper register it is much harder to tell the difference against a clarinet. But also I'm using a black JK with a dark mouthpiece for a round sound. Many other mouthpieces and/or horns seem to have an edgier sound.
Even a Mark VI is rounder than the modern horns to my ears. I wish I could get my hands around those vintage horns.

[OnyxSax]

I imagine your hands are too big to get around a vintage horn. It's funny. I have smallish hands and have some trouble working the upper stack of a Conn Tenor (either Chu or 10M) comfortable, However, the Conn straight fits my hands like a glove, I know the playing position has been called "cramped" by those with larger hands.

[TenorSax]

Well, my original instrument was clarinet, and then I switched to the saxophone, so I say yes, if you work at it, but this could be just because I'm originaly a clarinet player. I know most if not all of yall disagree with me, but I think it can, not exactly like it, but pretty close, coming from a clarinet/sax player

[Lenny]

Jon,
Another thing you can try is a clarinet reed. It will work on most soprano mouthpieces, no intonation issues that I know of. It tends to give you a very centered & less edgy reedy sound though not as loud. I used to use them because I liked the sound though when I changed to my current mpc I preferred the sop reed.

[Jon B. Bop]

Thank you all for your thoughtful and helpful responses.

As an update, I purchased a Buescher TT which arrived a couple of weeks ago.

Some initial reactions;

I've got a lot of work ahead of me in terms of embouchure/tone, and getting comfortable with the keys(particularly the left hand).

When I can get a reasonable tone, I love the "sax" quality of it. 'Clarinetish' sound may become an after-thought.

My arms sure get tired holding it up! :roll:

Once again I'm in awe of those of you who really play one of these things well.

Jon

[1saxman]

Okay, who might that be? LOL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: