From sax to flute

[jonnyc]

Hi, This is a ramble, not really a question!
Last year I bought a flute from the repairer I use. It's probably not a great flute, but its well maintained anyway!
I bought a flute book to work from and I couldn't get anywhere with it at all, so I paid for lessons. After about 10 lessons and practice, I couldn't get anywhere at all.
I have now started to just do all I can to get a nice , non fluffy sound out of it and have found that I am making much more progress this way. I cancelled the lessons and put the books away.
I can't get much of a sound below low D, and I cant get anything other than a full volume note from top D, but I'm guessing that will come in time.

[bpimentel]

I can't get much of a sound below low D, and I cant get anything other than a full volume note from top D, but I'm guessing that will come in time.

That sounds like embouchure issues--probably too large of an aperture. I struggled with the same thing as a beginning flutist until I got a teacher who was willing to really work with me on tone production (instead of just assigning lessons out of a method book).

For what it's worth, my advice is to try another teacher before you solidify any bad habits. Good luck!

Bret Pimentel

[Big Al]

Flute is a very humbling instrument---

There are many threads here that summarized, say that in order to be good at flute doubling, you really have to spend time learning the instrument. (i.e. there are no shortcuts)

Make it your primary instrument to practice for a while--- instead of picking up that sax and re-hashing old practice habits, practice the flute.

I've found that even while browsing here at SOTW and the web in general, I can hold the flute with the left hand up to my mouth and just play and try to get good tone.

Take your flute with you in your car, if you get caught in traffic, take the headjoint out and just blow into it and try to get a good tone. If you have to wait for your wife whilst she runs into the store for just "a minute", blow into the headjoint. Just keep trying to build those chops and getting used to it.

Also, Gordon(NZ) on this forum has an email that he has sent out to all of us frustrated flute players that helps explain the beast---look down further in this section and get his email so that he can send one off to you.

[paulwl]

Just don't expect the frustration to go away soon. It's part of the learning process for this instrument.

[Gordon (NZ)]

.....if you get caught in traffic, take the headjoint out and just blow into it and try to get a good tone.

Ah! Finally I know a good reason for driving on the left side of the road. One can play the WHOLE flute at the traffic lights - if one does not have a passenger.

[gary]

="Gordon NZ: Finally...a good reason for driving on the left side of the road.

One can play the WHOLE flute at the traffic lights...

:lol: Good one! a VERY good one!! :lol:

[Big Al]

Gordon

Hope you didn't mind the recommendation for your paper---I've had it for just under a month and my playing has really improved---after 4 years in the wilderness, I've heard steady improvement.

I have also been playing flute more regularly (read daily), even though it sucks to suck on something after being somewhat successful on sax and clarinet.

It's definately not an automatic double---the fingers go but breath support and phrasing is a whole different animal.

Must go blow---

[Gordon (NZ)]

No problem.

[Big Al]

Gordon (and any other flute aficionado)

When blowing into just the headjoint, what note should you get? I can get 4 different notes (2 with the end open --- an a and high a both a little flat--- and 2 with my thumb over the end --- low a and middle e both a little flat on the tuner)?

Also, after a long practice session, what part of the flute embouchure should feel fatigued (if any)? I can tell immediately when I run out of gas on clarinet and sax, but I don't feel the pain or the development on the flute.

thanks in advance for any replies

[bpimentel]

Big Al,

Here are my answers to your questions. I will be interested to see what anyone else has to say.

When blowing into just the headjoint, what note should you get?

An A, more or less in tune, without your thumb over the end.


Also, after a long practice session, what part of the flute embouchure should feel fatigued (if any)?

No part of the embouchure should be fatigued after a typical practice session. The flute embouchure is extremely relaxed in terms of muscular effort. If your lips or cheeks are getting tired, you are working too hard!

Any other opinions?

Bret Pimentel

[Jack W.]

Now you all got me wondering! I just had to run and get my three headjoints and try it out. (I have two flutes, one with an extra headjoint.)

[in response to:]When blowing into just the headjoint, what note should you get?

An A, more or less in tune, without your thumb over the end.

Actually I'm getting right between a G# and an A, using an embouchure that I judge would get me a nice clear note in the second octave at a comfortable mf level. I can't bring it up to an A without rolling the headjoint out. Of course I think no two headjoints are created equal either, yet these three ought to be very different also, as I wasn't expecting to get the same note from all three of them.... (One is the original headjoint to a 1970 Powell, another is a handmade one by Dana Sheridan, and another is the machine-made stock one to go with my Dimedici 1000-series.)

Covering the end with your thumb or the palm of your hand, should make the note drop down an octave (probably exactly -- Gordon will know more about this). This is governed by the laws of acoustics, which are not uninteresting but I'm no expert on them. I have read Benade's "Horns, Strings, and Harmony", but not in a while.

I'd be interested in third and eleventh opinions. Gordon? Bootman?

No part of the embouchure should be fatigued after a typical practice session. The flute embouchure is extremely relaxed in terms of muscular effort. If your lips or cheeks are getting tired, you are working too hard!

Amen.

Blow those flutes! :)

And don't get your thumb stuck in your headjoint! :o

[Gordon (NZ)]

I've never bothered with checking the pitch. For me:

End blocked, lower note, typical embouchure: About half way between Bb and A. But I can easily lip up to Bb without sacrificing tone or volume, or down to a quiet A.

End blocked, higher note, typical embouchure: E, but about 1/3 semitone sharp, which I can easily lip down to E or up to F, without sacrificing volume or tone.

End blocked, even higher note, typical embouchure: C#, about 1/3 semitone sharp

End unblocked, lower note, typical embouchure: A but about 1/5 semitone flat, which I can easily lip down to G# or up to A, without sacrificing volume or tone.

End unblocked, higher note, typical embouchure: Slightly sharp A.

This seems to me to have little relevance, seeing the notes are so flexible. A flute player needs much flexibility to compensate for dramatic pitch changes that occur with volume unless compensations are made.

"Covering the end with your thumb or the palm of your hand, should make the note drop down an octave (probably exactly -- Gordon will know more about this). " Basically true but there are many complicating factors such as those involving the section of tube to the left of the embouchure hole, and the effective wave length extending beyond the end of an open tube, so I would make no assumptions here. (I am no expert on acoustics.)

[Big Al]

Well I finally decided to get a flute lesson to see where I stand (in other words, should I give it up) and much to my surprise, the teacher said I'm doing okay...the only thing she frowned upon me doing that I learned off this site was using the trill key to assist hitting the high E3. Guess that's a big no-no in the flute world---so besides breaking that little habit, I have to just stay the course and continue practicing (go figure).

She did give me a break when I would occasionally slip in the 123 x2x fingering for f#, says its pretty common from those of us who come over to the flute from the dark side...

So, I guess its time to continue to blowin and tryin' not to suck...