Any UK or European C-Melody enthusiasts ?

[cmelodysax]

I'd be interested on hearing from you. I've started restoring a few (imported from the States) to playing condition, and I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else this side of the Atlantic who shares my enthusiasm. For C-Clarinets as well....
Withour wishing to breach forum protocol, I will be posting the odd one or two in the 'Marketplace' and on ebay. Keeping the very best for myself - of course. :D
Regards, Alan.

[paulwl]

Hmm.

I think of the C melody saxophone as an essentially American phenomenon: the only sax created more or less for commercial reasons. Those reasons being the sax popularity boom post-WW1 and the attendant craze for home and amateur playing.

Then again, like so much pop culture, they're now historical arcana - and the love of that is an essentially European phenomenon. So...

[singlereed]

I've brought a couple of Bueschers over from the US, both were near mint, one of them had gold plated keys. I found the sound was too restrained, was neither fish nor fowl, and the playing position was uncomfortable. When I needed cash for more conventional horns, I am afraid I sold each one on. At a profit I am pleased to say.

I do have a C clarinet, an old Buisson that I have owned for about 25 years. Its a lovely wooden clarinet, has quite plain nickel keys but is incredibly powerful sounding. These were a French brand imported by Dallas Arbiter I believe, I have also seen the occasional oboe and Bb clarinet with the same name. I used to use it quite a lot, more recently my daughter used it to start learning clarinet as it is that bit smaller than a Bb.

[cmelodysax]

Paulwl - thanks for your thoughts, not quite sure if you're patronising me or putting me down... Altho' C-Melodies are 'an essentially American phenomenon' , don't forget a lot of Americans were originally 'essentially European' :)
------
Singlereed - maybe I'm just lucky (being short, C-Mels, on the whole, feel comfortable) I also play Martin Tenor & Alto when needed, but have always wished for 'something which gives me the best of both saxes' - preferably without having to switch my ear from Eb to Bb !
In their original forms your reservations about most C-Mels are valid, but I play a newer Conn C-Mel, action as good as anything of that age, new pads with small reflectors, and using either modern (70's) ebonite Link or Berg Larsen. Rico or LaVoz reeds complete the picture.
It plays the whole range, lush, jazz-funk, blues, and can produce a 'clean' tone if needed.
Only compromise is that I've abandoned the straight micro-tuner' neck, and use a curved silver (I think Buescher) neck to give me that little bit of resistance to push against - no pitch problems whatsoever.
(However I will grudgingly admit that some of the C-Mels are more suited to collectors, rather than being used as 'working' horns)
I can now produce C-Mel, C-Clari and flute -all in C - and read off the same music as keyboards, guitar et. al. I can even get them to call out the chords to me without thinking ' what's that for Eb / Bb ?'
Bliss.... :D

[Roger Aldridge]

Tinminer,

I live on the western side of the pond. But, I wanted to send my regards and best wishes to you. I'm a huge fan of the c-melody and C clarinet. It's always a pleasure to find a kindred spirit on the Forum!

If you haven't already, please check out the C clarinet made by Patricola. I purchased a new one last year from International Music Suppliers and I've been entirely happy with it. There's one interesting thing about this clarinet. It's actually designed for Bb clarinet mouthpieces. When I talked with Ralph Morgan about it he scratched his head and said that it could be possible. When the clarinet arrived I first tried it out with my Morgan C clarinet mouthpiece. The results were so-so. I then tried the clarinet with a Bb Morgan mouthpiece and that did the trick -- the sound, response, and intonation were superb.

Speaking of scratching one's head.....

I'm scratching my head about Paul's comment about the c-melody being "The only sax created more or less for commercial reasons". We know that the c-melody was designed years before the post-WWI "home music craze". It's my understanding that it was originally conceived by Sax to be part of an orchestrial family of saxophones in C and F. If memory serves, I think that Paul posted a message not too long ago about a 1905 c-melody being sold on ebay. I hope that I got that right!

The point that I'm trying to make is that the c-melody came first as an instrument. Then, after a period of some years, marketing people came up with the playing music at home angle as a way to sell a lot of c-melodies. Personally, I don't see this as a reason to think of the c-melody in any less respectful ways than other saxophones. It wasn't the c-melody's fault that it was treated in this shabby commercial manner! :roll:

While I have a great love for my other saxophones, there is something about the c-melody that really appeals to me. Thus, when I come home from work and reach into the closet for one of my horns to practice it's most often the c-melody that comes out.

Best wishes to you!

[cmelodysax]

Thanks Roger, I've actually been an avid reader (and occasional contributer) to the 'C-Melody forum' for some time, using my real name (Alan Tucker) -So you are already well known to me.

On the subject of C clarinets, for a while I've been battling with an old Besson/Buffet (Albert/ Mueller) HP-C, which becomes almost LP with a standard Bb mouthpiece. Imagine then, my happiness, when I pick up on ebay in the UK, for well under $200, this little beauty - this is pasted from an query I put on the Clarinet (sneezy) forum -

(quote)'having just acquired this really nice wood Boehm C Clarinet (LP), which has no markings other than 'G Deschamps' & 'Paris' - has anyone else ever come across this maker.
It's quite a quality clarinet, intonation/pitch fine with standard Bb mouthpieces, amazingly full 'woody' sound for a 'C', but no serial numbers anywhere. Dates possibly early 1900's.
Internet searches reveal several 'Deschamps', mostly clarinettists and a composer, any info gratefully received. Thanks. (unquote)

It is just amazingly nice - I'm sure instruments have souls, it feels as tho' it's coming alive again when I play it. This one came from a house clearance (estate sale) in the tip of Scotland. and the Scots don't waste money on rubbish. :D The seller even sent me, as a free after-bonus, a box of pads + reed cutter. Nice things do (sometimes) happen on Ebay !

Regards, Alan.

[paulwl]

First, Alan...I'm sorry if I came across as a putter-downer. I guess I just tend to put things (and people, sometimes) into pigeonholes, probably because so many people do it themselves without even knowing it. (nationally, musically, socially...) I feel talking about those differences, because sometimes you can get over them that way.

And Roger...I guess the C-melody wasn't "created" for commercial reasons, but had it not been for them, there would be hardly any after Sax' instruments. It's like television - it had been around for years before anyone gave a damn about it.

C'mon gang! Group hug in the key of C! I kees you! Let's play a trio... :lol:

[cmelodysax]

Paul - if you'd waited another few hours you could have read my apology to you, guess I was feeling a tad defensive that day.
Now that any commercial or peer pressure is off me I can explore the horns that (I'll readily admit) I've been dismissive of in the past.
Ten years ago I couldn't have foreseen me admitting that with modern pads, mpc, and reeds the Conn C-Mel I use could come anywhere near my Martin or Keilwerth tenors. Even harmonics are reasonable, taking a while to find some (as with any 'new' horn) tho'.
By the way, I'm not putting Martin, Buescher or any of the others down ( I have a few of those as projects 'limping' along simulaneously) in favour of Conn, it's just that I got used to using the aux-front-F for high notes, so I've limited my choice a tad.
Appreciate the feedback - what would life be like if we all agreed with each other ? No reasons to go down to the pub to discuss it further. :wink:

[OldBadger]

Tinminer asked a while ago if there were any more of us in the UK. I have just moved to the next county - Devon - to Tinminer and would be grateful for any information about local events, stockists etc.

Why pick the C-melody sax ? In my case, I was influenced by what Lester Young said about it, by what other people said about his tenor sound (lighter than most) . . . and also by having played a quirky brass instrument in earlier days.

Until I got macular degeneration, I played the tenor horn (alto horn in the USA) in a brass band. This is the smallest of the raincatcher horns (and did feature in Lester Young's father's band, I see). This is bigger than the flugel and smaller than the euphonium - much like the C-mel lies between the alto and tenor saxes. So, I thought it was the one for me.

If that sounds like a silly set of reasons to fancy an instrument, I would agree. However, we have to make sensible decisions all the time in daily life, and it can be refreshing to let your guard down, now and again.

OldBadger

[cmelodysax]

Hello OldBadger - I often wondered why American marching bands have forward-facing bells on most of their horns, always thought it was more for sound projection, but I guess on a bad day a euphonium could collect a couple of gallons !
If you'd like to email me off-list at tinminer@btinternet.com I'd be happy to talk.
Regards, Alan.

P.S. there is a very useful C-Melody forum at -
http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=cmelody
- where other UK C-Mel players also contribute.

[stitch]

Hi all, I'm another UK c-mel owner. I bought a minty Buescher last year from the States (as well as the original it also came with a Bill Street m/p that seems to be sized for alto reeds rather than tenor), though as my precious practice time is spent on tenor, it doesn't come out of its case much. A few months ago I snagged a Conn stencil (Grand Opera) on eBay ($40!!!) which needs a total overhaul - I know next to nothing, so it will be my practice horn, and the other week in a rush of blood to the head I rather rashly (and probably at too high a price - you'll notice I'm not boasting about this bargain - I guess they cancel each other out....) I got a straight neck Conn, which has yet to arrive. It's going to need work too, so my practice on the stencil will be of great value. The main problem (apart from lack of knowledge) is finding the time to do it.

I do intend to play the c-mel more, as a guitar playing friend wants to get together to jam a bit, and it saves me having to transpose stuff.

As an aside, I posted a question in the Pads and Resonators section that I hoped you may have the answer to, tinminer: I noticed that Windcraft sells a complete set of Conn c-mel resopads, and I was wondering if you know if they fit stencils as well as 'proper' Conns.

[cmelodysax]

Stitch (Hello) - I don't know the answer as to whether Conn c-mel resopads for e.g. a straight-neck Conn will fit their stencils, logic says 'hopefully', but then none of the necks for 3xConns & 2xConn stencils I have will really interchange properly without ptfe tape, so I can only say 'possibly'........ Could be worth a laugh to ask Windcraft, but they'll probably say 'measure the cups' at best. I seem to remember them selling a set C-Mel Buescher snap-ins a while back, I see the Conn Reso's are there now as well, interesting that they recognise a market for C-Mel bits.

I have the same problem as you - time - as most of the bits I buy from the States will eventually end on ebay to supplement the luxury of early retirement to Dorset, so I need to focus on that. Still, it allows me to find the perfect horn, which I have now - a bare brass Martin C-Mel, to go with my Martin tenor and alto - but which needs a total overhaul and some bodywork & soldering.

Like you, I paid far too much for some (in the early days), but a few bargains balance the equation. Such is life, hopefully.

Regards, Alan.

[stitch]

Thanks Alan; yeah, I thought I'd probably get that sort of response from Windcraft too. Mind you, now that I'm getting the straight neck Conn I'll probably need a 'proper' set anyway, so I can find out for myself (always a silver lining....!)

[cmelodysax]

Stitch - I'm going to have to buy a set of Conn snap-ins in the near future, I've a silver straight-neck which is just wasting without a repad, and for £20'ish it seems like a good deal. Maybe I'll strip down the Conn stencil at the same time and see if they also fit that.

If it's any help, my other couple of working Conn straight-necks (lacquer) have been repadded with standard tan pads, one with just rivets, the other with small metal resonators on most of the pads. The sax with resonators is totally different to the 'rivets only' - it's brighter, more responsive, less 'plummy'.

In fact that sax is the 'best so far' - but I've had to use the curved neck from the Conn stencil because I just felt wrong with the straight neck.
Coming back to the 'snap-ins', the only concern I have is that if a couple of the pads are wrong (did Conn really keep the same sizes throughout their entire production?) - have I got to get the odd sizes from The States....? That's when it gets messy.

Guess for the price of one set I need to try it........ Regards, ALan.

[stitch]

Stitch - I'm going to have to buy a set of Conn snap-ins in the near future.

You can get Conn snap-ins? I like the sound of that, does that mean no gluing?

[cmelodysax]

Stitch - I've always assumed (never used them because haven't been able to easily get them in the UK ) that Conn Res-O-Pads just snap in because of a built in metal washer that makes them a snug fit without glue.

I quote from Stacey's 'saga of a first time restorer' (I'm sure he won't mind being quoted) -

(quote)"I've learned that minor regulation of the adhesiveless Conn Reso-pads is not bad at all, provided the tonehole and the key mechanism are in good shape. With just the edge of a butter knife, one can get the half a millimeter here and there that makes all the difference in many cases. "
(unquote)

So there you go, now you know all that I know about Res-O-Pads, and Windcraft advertise a C-Melody set in the UK for £22-50 at
http://www.windcraft.co.uk/windcraft/index.html
( Repair Materials, Saxophones, Pads-Set-C Melody )

Got to be worth a try. Who's going to be first, me or you ?

- Regards, Alan.

[Stacey]

Yep - Conn Reso-Pads are designed such that they can be held in by the pressure of a metal ring embedded in the pad, against the inner edge of the cup. I've almost completely repadded a 1919 curved-neck Conn C-mel using these, and they work reasonably well. My caution to you is that some of them fit EXTREMELY snugly, especially smaller keys like the left hand keys. Some of the larger keys, like the right hand D, E, F keys, fit very nicely, and require only modest pressure to get them to snap into place.

Oddly, on my horn, one key - the side Bb - did not fit ANY size of Conn Reso-pad: one was too small, and the next size up was far too large (regardless of the pressure exerted). So much for totally repadding a horn without any adhesive...

I had to install several of the smaller pads by placing them on my granite countertop, putting the key over that (after remnving the key from the horn, obviously), pressing with all my might, and saying a silent prayer that I wouldn't destroy my horn. Fortunately, my prayers were answered.

The other side effect of all this forcing and praying is that you end up worsening any leaks that might have already existed around the pads, because brass bends so easily. Thus, you get to do lots of gentle key bending to correct what you did to the poor horn during pad installation.

The end of the road is finally in sight for me now, I think.

Having said all of this, I don't know that I'd go the Reso-Pad route again. I suspect I'd just choose from among all of the pad/resonator combinations out there, measure carefully, and get a good heat gun and shellac.

Use my advice at your own risk - I'm still a pitiful novice at all of this (for now... :twisted: )

But I'm writing a Business Plan for an Entrepreneurship class... LOL

[Stacey]

Wow - I was being quoted whilst writing my previous post...

PLEASE don't pay much attantion to my early "Saga" comments - I HAD NO IDEA WHAT I WAS DOING!!! I've since become MUCH better educated, and I regret that my early posts may lead you to believe any poor schmuck (like me) can do quality sax overhauls with little or no training.

I WAS CLUELESS! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT SAGA!

:roll:

[cmelodysax]

Thanks Stacey - if the Atlantic turns 'blue' you'll know it's a small amount of cussing from the UK. I can't believe that 1920's manufacturing tolerance (or indeed keeping the absolute same cup sizes throughout the entire production cycle of the C-Mel) will allow one 'set' to fit all the cups on all the horns. Maybe I'm just an old cynic.....

Kind Regards, - Alan.

(I just quickly edited out a reference to the saga, in deference to your comments. But please be aware we all have a steep learning curve. As a retired computer engineer, I frequently had to 'make it up as I went along" - reading the manuals was always a last resort, if time was available... I seem to have migrated that philosophy to fixing my horns.)

[stitch]

I WAS CLUELESS! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT SAGA!


Oh...... I was going to use that as my 'how to' guide... :?

[Stacey]

You go right ahead, stitch...

Best of luck to you! :twisted:

[saximum]

I have been regularly going to the predominant saxophone seller in Finland, and the saxophones that I see flying offthe shelves the quickest are the C-Melodies.

I have two of them, a Buescher True Tone and a Conn.
The Conn is interesting, because it has a mechanical tuner on
the neck, the neck is straight, and the tone holes are rolled.
(I am not sure rolled tone holes have that much merit, but I
suppose they are not prone to rattling as much when the key
is closed)

I play in various worship bands, in front of various sized audiences.
I play by ear, and I mostly improvise riffs. However, I can and do read music. I don't transpose from C very well when playing Eb alto, but it is much easier with a Bb soprano or Tenor. Now I am eager to try a C-Melody for this very reason.

William