sounds bad when I am playing

[Hike]

I am an adult novice player. I've played for a year or so a tenor saxophone.Still now it sounds bad, the first 15 min are OK after that the sax is making squeesing sound specially when I am tongueing. I try to be very relaxed but I HATE it when it's doing that sound. I have a teacher but I'm afraid he tries to get rid of me when I'm not learnig. What could be wrong. I took the sax to repair shop and they told there is nothing wrong whit it. I use 2 1/2 or 3 reeds and T27 mp.
Hike

[colibri]

Try a harder reed. If that doesn't help, try another mouthpiece. Try a new ligature. Try another brand of reeds. Get your horn checked. Make sure your gear works before you blame yourself for the squeaking.

[Jon B. Bop]

And get a new teacher!

[Hike]

And get a new teacher!
It is me or the horn - not the teacher. At this age I have listened the good
sax music for decades and I can not produce the same sound.
My teacher says that is my problem - my age! If I was a kid I'd hapily play
and play and the bad sound would bother him and all people around but not me.
But thank's for your comment.
HIlkka

[Hike]

Try a harder reed. If that doesn't help, try another mouthpiece. Try a new ligature. Try another brand of reeds. Get your horn checked. Make sure your gear works before you blame yourself for the squeaking.

The harder reed helps - I know it because I started with 1 1/5 and if
now I use 2 1/5 or 3. But that route is short - one day I cannot get harder reed, there isn't one. It also helps if I take a new reed, the first 15 min. I sound good even in my own ears. But then ... I think my horn is fine, I just haven't figured out something really important. My teacher says the problem is in my toungueing I am doing it wrong and the pressure of the air. And the more he tries to advice me, I get more tensed and I sound even worse.
Thank's for your comment.

[Jon B. Bop]

Hike,

I didn't mean get a new teacher to improve your sound, I meant it because you said that he "tries to get rid of you" when you don't learn!
What a lousy attitude for a teacher.

The fact that he thinks your age is your problem confirms my notion.

Wanting to sound like one of the greats is a noble ambition. Find someone who will embrace that goal, and work constructively with you to reach it, rather then fault you for wanting it.

[sw3119]

Hike,

have you tried fibracell reeds.

I know some people don't like synthetic reeds but one benefit
is there consistency. I used to waist a lot of time trying to get
the right reed, only to have it crap out after a few hours of playing.

I don't know what the T27mpc is but maybe you should try getting
something like a selmer C* or some other middle of the road mpc.

if you can get a decent sound to work with, you can spend more
time working on your embrasure, playing long tones, breath control, etc...

[Bill Mecca]

do a search on this forum for tone production, and check out Paul Coats' articles, accessible from the main page.

I would second the harder reed, it sounds like as the reed moistens after playing a bit it's too soft for you.

Relax your embouchure, and work on long tones. Good tone is extremely dependant upon good air support. there is one post in particular from Sue Terry, or maybe it's an article, anyway she discusses overtones and undertones, listening to your sound playing long tones, making slight adjustments to get it where you want it to be, with a tuner.

You are correct to be concerned about tone, that is the first thing I hear when I listen to another horn player, tone, intonation, and timing, then at the bottom of the list is all the fancy licks they can play.

Loooooooonnnnnnggggggg Tones. ;-)

[Kosma]

Hike, It sounds to me like your embouchure is getting tired after about 15 minutes. When this happens the tendency is to bite harder to compensate for the tired muscles. Then your sound gets thin and squeaks happen because of the reed being pinched off too much (by biting harder). If you are also out of breath at this point, the problem will be compounded by lack of breath support.

If 15 minutes is your limit, try for 16 minutes today, 17 tomorrow, and so on. If breath support is a problem, do some type of exercise. Anything to get you out of breath. (If you don't already) You should notice a difference in only a few days. Good luck!

[clem]

I second what Kosma says. I sometimes get this problem not after 15 min but maybe during the 3rd set on a gig. I think there are several causes:

1 Reed too stiff

2 Reed too soft, starts closing up, which encourages me to blow harder to overcome the resistance, and I wear out. Solution? Change reeds.

3 If it happens every time I play, I would check the horn for leaks. I may have a pad that seals fine when it's dry, but absorbs moisture after playing a little while and swells.

4 Try another mouthpiece with with a wider tip opening. Some mouthpieces are just easier to blow than others.

[Hike]

Hike,

I didn't mean get a new teacher to improve your sound, I meant it because you said that he "tries to get rid of you" when you don't learn!
What a lousy attitude for a teacher.

The fact that he thinks your age is your problem confirms my notion.

Wanting to sound like one of the greats is a noble ambition. Find someone who will embrace that goal, and work constructively with you to reach it, rather then fault you for wanting it.

Yes, I got the point. Thank's for couraging me!

[Hike]

Hike,

have you tried fibracell reeds.

I know some people don't like synthetic reeds but one benefit
is there consistency. I used to waist a lot of time trying to get
the right reed, only to have it crap out after a few hours of playing.

I don't know what the T27mpc is but maybe you should try getting
something like a selmer C* or some other middle of the road mpc.

if you can get a decent sound to work with, you can spend more
time working on your embrasure, playing long tones, breath control, etc...

No I haven't tried fibracell reeds. Next time I'll ask for them and test.
Yesterday I tried to change mp, it was called Vandoren swing. My sound was rather weak, it took big efforts for me to blow hard enough. But the sound was good. You are right about getting the sound first, and then trying to fix embrasure. I have heard many people saying play long notes. I haven't relly done that because I didn't understand why it is better to paly long notes. I still don't but since that comes up again and again from now on I wil play long notes.
Thank's for your advices

[Hike]

do a search on this forum for tone production, and check out Paul Coats' articles, accessible from the main page.

I would second the harder reed, it sounds like as the reed moistens after playing a bit it's too soft for you.

Relax your embouchure, and work on long tones. Good tone is extremely dependant upon good air support. there is one post in particular from Sue Terry, or maybe it's an article, anyway she discusses overtones and undertones, listening to your sound playing long tones, making slight adjustments to get it where you want it to be, with a tuner.

You are correct to be concerned about tone, that is the first thing I hear when I listen to another horn player, tone, intonation, and timing, then at the bottom of the list is all the fancy licks they can play.

Loooooooonnnnnnggggggg Tones. ;-)


Hi, I took a printout of your advices and try to find the articles. Yes from now on I will try those long tones. I have heard that advice earlier also but since I didn't understand why I have forgotten that advice. But from now on I am concentrating on those when producing the sound.
Thousands of thank's ! Hilkka

[Hike]

Hike, It sounds to me like your embouchure is getting tired after about 15 minutes. When this happens the tendency is to bite harder to compensate for the tired muscles. Then your sound gets thin and squeaks happen because of the reed being pinched off too much (by biting harder). If you are also out of breath at this point, the problem will be compounded by lack of breath support.

If 15 minutes is your limit, try for 16 minutes today, 17 tomorrow, and so on. If breath support is a problem, do some type of exercise. Anything to get you out of breath. (If you don't already) You should notice a difference in only a few days. Good luck!

Actually this is what I thought myself! My face is all tired after 40 min. playing. 45 min is maximum my mounth can play. But I have got also other good advices which I will try. I am like Alice in wonderland. I have been able to ask ALL stupid questions I wound't ask any "real saxophonist" face to face. And I have got advices. Thank's!

[Hike]

I second what Kosma says. I sometimes get this problem not after 15 min but maybe during the 3rd set on a gig. I think there are several causes:

1 Reed too stiff

2 Reed too soft, starts closing up, which encourages me to blow harder to overcome the resistance, and I wear out. Solution? Change reeds.

3 If it happens every time I play, I would check the horn for leaks. I may have a pad that seals fine when it's dry, but absorbs moisture after playing a little while and swells.

4 Try another mouthpiece with with a wider tip opening. Some mouthpieces are just easier to blow than others.

Thank's. You sound really clever. I think the mp is maybe not best for me. I once tried to buy a new and they gave me "hundred" mp of which I could not choose anyone. Fist they were all rather expencive just to buy for try, and I could tell what I wanted. So I did not buy anything. All your advices are good. Thank you.

[averageschmoe]

you mentioned tonguing as an issue, if you would, please describe your approach to articulation (where and with what part of the tongue are you trying to strike the reed?).

[Hike]

you mentioned tonguing as an issue, if you would, please describe your approach to articulation (where and with what part of the tongue are you trying to strike the reed?).

I know I have done the tonguing wrong. I didn't touhh the topp of the reed. And actually I don't like tonguing at all because it makes the notes separate (not in legato) and the music sounds stupid. Now I have tried to tongui on the topp of the reed, I still can hear a "whishle" when tonguing and the notes are separate. I dont know how to do so it would not kill the sound totally. Maybe my tongue is too slow.

-hike-

[averageschmoe]

the way i've been taught is to anchor the tip of my tongue under my lower lip. i strike the reed gently with the middle area of the tongue, striking the reed where it meets the mouthpiece. i have found that this allows me to play with the least amount of distortion of my embouchure/airstream and with the least amount of movement from my tongue.

articulation is a very important aspect to playing musically. like a painter we must be able to use every color possible to express an idea. you should start out practicing articulating eighth-notes (semi-quavers) at a moderate tempo (70-80 beats per minute) both staccato and legato (staccato - very seperated; legato - very connected) in front of a mirror, the idea is to negate all movement you see in your face. you want to listen very closely to yourself and determine whether or not each articulation is even and defined. practice this for about five minutes or so to begin, the muscles will not be used to the actions required of them and there will be some discomfort.

[Gordon (NZ)]

the way i've been taught is to anchor the tip of my tongue under my lower lip. ....

I don't think that is a very standard way of tonguing.
I used to use it for flute, and it took years to later correct it.

Surely the tip of the tongue is capable of moving a lot faster than can an area of the tongue further back while the tip is stationery.

[averageschmoe]

you'd be surprised. anchor tonguing (or french tonguing) is the method encouraged by larry teal in "the art of saxophone" as well as by henry lindeman when he still taught, not to mention marcel mule and daniel deffayet. i know that for me, and many people i know, that i can articulate with much less of a tongue move with the tip anchored. the back of the tongue is made to stay anchored keeping the oral cavity the same shape.