Jupiter Bass Flute

[MojoBari]

I've had the pleasure to toot on a new Jupiter Bass Flute for several days on loan from the local music store. I do own an alto flute, but I've never played a bass flute for more than a minute in the past. So most of my cmments will pertain to my 1st bass flute experiance more than the Jupiter.

The Jupiter can be purchased for $1750 or so. Much less than any other bass flute. It takes a while to zero in on a passable embouchure. I was decent in 20 minutes, but much better after an hour. I think the low regiter is easy. E2 wants to crack the most, so if you work on that note to lock in the best embouchure, the rest of the low 2 octaves play easy. Some alternate fingerings are needed for the best response and intonation in the 3rd register, but you shouldn't be up there much on a bass flute anyhow.

The Jupiter is keyed to low C and does not have any trill keys. C-D break trills can be made with the RH pinky. B3 can be made to speak without the trill.

It takes a while to set up the curved headjoint for the best ergonomics. Once you get it balanced, it is quite comfortable. The center of gravity seems like it nearly centered between your chin and left hand. Just some to the right.

I can not justify purchasing a bass flute. I gots kids to put through college. But if I did have an occassional need for one, its nice to know I wont have to pay $3000 or more for one.

[Jack W.]

Thanks for the review, I'm sure a lot of us were wondering about these new horns. Until now my understanding was that the state of the art in affordable bass flutes was the Emerson Robert Dick model, for around $3000. Of course these do have the trill keys and are available to low B also, but the Jupiter still sounds like a viable alternative.

I have also spent a total of maybe 3 minutes on a bass flute in my whole life, so I will not comment further. I can't justify a bass flute purchase either anyway. But that Kingma contrabass flute at the WW&BW, now! 8) And it's only $19000! :shock:

[Merlin]

Wow, you're lucky mojo!

I haven't even seen one of the basses up here yet. I've plenty of experience on the deMedici series C flute, and I've played the altos as well.

[Bootman]

I definitely recommend Bass Flutes, far too much fun to play. Thanks for the revue on the Jupiter Bass. It willbe fun to play one against my Ogilve model.

[MojoBari]

I'll also add the observation that the embouchure hole is nearly square with 4 rounded corners.

[Bootman]

Any chance of a pic?

[Ivy]

Thanks for the review MojoBari. Were you able to go from low D to C with no problems after a little practice? Did you check the intonation on the 2 lower octaves? I'm interested in this model because of the price. Thanx.Ivy

[MojoBari]

I'll work on the pic and some intonation stats.

Low D to low C plays easily. I had trouble getting used to the placement and angle of the low C key. It is a farther reach than my Gemm Alto flute.

[MojoBari]

http://www.jupiterflutes.com/alto_bass.html

[MojoBari]

I checked it with a tuner. There is a tendency to play the low notes flat and the higher ones sharp. This is true on all flutes but you need to learn a new embouchure for an alto or bass flute. So I did make sure that I could lip up the low notes and relax some to bring down the high notes (I'm talking just a C3). So I think it is possible to play the Jupiter bass more in tune than I was doing before I turned on the tuner to check it out. I'm pretty sure my intonation is off some due to this being my 1st bass experiance, not because the Jupiter is bad. I had similar issues when I first got my alto flute.

[Dr_sax]

I got an Armstrong bass flute pretty cheap 2 years ago and love it. I don´t use it often but when it´s alot of fun.

[MojoBari]

Got a digital camera from Santa. No more borrowing. Here are some bass pics. BTW I played the bass in church Xmas Eve. Makes it more tempting to get one...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/410925/Flutes.jpg

Can you name all the flutes in the pic?

[bruce bailey]

I have a flute shop in Miami and as far as bass flutes go, you really don't have the vast numbers of used ones available (as opposed to saxes). You can't go wrong with any of the US ones like Artley, Emerson or Armstrong. I have found that the asian ones tend to have some issues with keywork durability with the exception of the Yamaha which is about the best of the low priced (yeah, right) ones. I sold a used Armstrong a few years ago for around $1,400 and have a fancy Emerson for $2,200 so you should be able to find them in your area for similar prices. As a doubler I have never been able to justify the massive expense of a bass vs. an alto but to each his own. Ther have been altos on ebay going for $1,000-2,000.

[flutepixie]

*PARDON MY IGNORANCE*, but...

What are the last two of the 'flute-like' sizes? IS one of the flutes an Eb da'more? is there a tenor flute there?

[MRC01]

I've had that same Jupiter bass for about a year now and have many hours and several performances on it. Originally I tested it against the Emerson:
http://mclements.net/Mike/mrc-flutereview-bass.html
I also played an old vintage bass, I think a Rudall Carte but not sure. None of the 3 was best in all areas, but I liked the Jupiter best overall.

One reason intonation on a bass is more difficult is because the head taper is so short - it doesn't taper through the curve, as this would be very expensive to machine. Incidentally, I wonder whether the Kingma does... for the price it certainly *should* :shock:

Anyway, the Jupiter bass is easy to play, has great intonation, decent tone, consistent voicing through its range, and so far has survived many rehearsals and several gigs without any problems. It's at least as good as basses that cost twice as much.

[bruce bailey]

The diMedici is a good one if you need the trill keys but the Jupiter is good enough. WHo needs trills on a bass anyway? I have a customer with a Kingma and it is a disappointment. Plays nice when it is working. Solder work is not top line and gets out of adjustment easily. Not worth $10K. Maybe if you were a top line studio player, but not for most. Get the Jupiter. Maybe some of the ones from China will prove to be good. There are some on ebya for around $1200.

[RS]

I'll take a shot at answering Mojo's puzzle: (top to bottom) bass flute, alto flute, Bb flute, C flute, and Eb flute (and a silver and a wood piccolo on the left). Am I right and the bottom flute is indeed an Eb flute? I've been lusting for an Eb flute for some time now but they just don't seem to be available these days.

[Chris Peryagh]

I've just been looking at the DiMedici bass flute on Jupiter's site - pretty impressive beast, and it has pearl touches (real or plastic?) and an E mech.

http://www.jupiterflutes.com/jbi_instrumentDetails.aspx?cId=19&lId=5&sId=1&pId=93

I just noticed it has engraved pad cups as well!

[bruce bailey]

The pad cups do have some engraving but it is rather thin and cheapens the looks IMO. It is a better flute than the Jupiter but I would consider prices. I would be happy with the Jupiter from the ones I have played.
As far as Eb flutes, they HAVE become hard to find but ebay has them usually in the $750 range. I just sold a Gemeinhardt for that amount. There were a few from Haynes. The Armstrong or Emerson seem to be the better ones.

[Randall]

Any of you bass flute players ever play a Kotato bass flute? If so, how would the Jupiter measure up to that?

I A/B'd a Kotato with a Yamaha, Armstrong, Gemeindhart (sp?) and a very old German bass once, and the Kotato was light years ahead of those. So much in fact, that I couldn't even begin to consider them.

I have come to expect good things from Jupiter, so I am curious. The price certainly is right!

[JButky]

I A/B'd a Kotato with a Yamaha, Armstrong, Gemeindhart (sp?) and a very old German bass once, and the Kotato was light years ahead of those.

Yes, the Kotato is light years ahead of these other brands....and so is the price.
But It's about the best one out there...The second best I've ever played was this one:

Rudall Bass (http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/goferjoe/rcbass.htm)

Joe B (Can't afford either...)

[Randall]

Beautiful flute!
The Kotato goes for close to 10K US....way beyond my means.

[Bootman]

Randy,
Have you tried an Artley Ogilve model Bass? These are well worth a look at too. Solid silver head, no trill keys, very good in all registers with a lovely rich tone. Playign bass flute does wonders for you air supply.

[Randall]

Hey Boot,
No, I haven't. I would like to give it a toot, though! If you want to send it on up....;)
I found that my regular flute playing built up my lung power a great deal, along with the bass sax! :D

[Bootman]

Randy, Chat off line. The new Bass sax is going great guns, just finished replating some areas of wear and tear in the silver plate. Those Caswell brush on kits work wonderfully well. They work great on mpcs too.

[MojoBari]

I did not know this thread was active again.
I'll take a shot at answering Mojo's puzzle: (top to bottom) bass flute, alto flute, Bb flute, C flute, and Eb flute (and a silver and a wood piccolo on the left). Am I right and the bottom flute is indeed an Eb flute? I've been lusting for an Eb flute for some time now but they just don't seem to be available these days.Correct, except the metal picc is a plated Bundy Db picc. Probably Army issue.

Half of these are my wife's, but we share. She is in a civil war band that sometimes is missing an Eb or Bb lead trumpet. So she can cover it with the Bb and Eb flutes. Sight transposing is not her thing.

I actually got the Jupiter bass as a gift from the wife a year or two ago. I played it in church a few times. I really should break it out some more.

[bruce bailey]

Mojo - Sorry to hear you live with a flute player. All of the women I have lived with are flutists and maybe that is why I am crazy. I deal with flute players everyday and when there is a flute convention everyone asks why I don't take a vacation and attend. My idea of a vacation is when ALL of the flute players leave town and I stay!!!
Still, I love 'em all.

[kymarto]

At least it's not oboe players...

Toby

[MRC01]

The pad cups do have some engraving but it is rather thin and cheapens the looks IMO. It is a better flute than the Jupiter but I would consider prices. I would be happy with the Jupiter from the ones I have played.
I currently have the DiMedici (Jupiter 1123) bass on trial, comparing it with my trusty old Jupiter 523. I must say I expected more of a difference.

I'm pretty happy with my 523 but I was looking for something with a faster response time in the bottom octave and a little more resonance on certain notes. The 1123 has both, and it has a nice edge to the tone, and it's a little more solidly built. But the differences are small enough I'm not sure it's worth twice the price. I might be better off sticking with my 523 for now and eventually going for a bigger upgrade (like a Kotato).

More details on the comparison:
http://mclements.net/Mike/mrc-flutereview-bass1123.html

Since I only have a few more days to decide whether to keep the 1123, I've been playing both back and forth at least a couple of hours a day. I usually know within 10 minute whether I like a flute better but in this case I still am undecided. There is no doubt that 1123 is a better bass flute, but how much better? What could *really* help me is to know how much of a difference there is between the DeMedici and a real pro bass flute like the Kotato. If the DeMedici is close to on par with a Kotato, then I'd keep it. If not, then I'd send it back, keep my 523 and eventually some time down the road I might get a Kotato.

[Michael Ward]

I played a Yamaha for a while then I tried a friend's Kingma which was much superior . I now have my own with a head I picked from twenty or so. It has a very big sound, very even response, Cooper scale, good bottom end and can cut. I was knocked out by Robert Dicks recordings on a Kingma bass ( Machine Gun and Syrinx)and Mathias Zigler. I was fortunate to be able to buy Eva's show bass which just had a certain something although I let a head go that was magical and was sold. I also had it repadded with new Kingma pads. Whilst at the workshop I tried an amazing contra and an alto that was the best alto I've ever played. Unbelievable tone and projection.
The great thing about Kingma also is that the flute is custom fitted to your hands which can be a problem for the larger flutes.

[MRC01]

I am realizing that the next step up from this Jupiter is likely an Altus, Kotato or Kingma, the cheapest of which (Altus) is more than twice the price. From what I've played so far the Jupiter has an incredible bottom octave and I would expect none of them to be stronger in that department. So I would expect a pro bass flute to be the equal of the Jupiter in bottom octave - perhaps a more "luscius" bottom register but probably not a stronger one. With the pro having superior voicing and smoothness of midrange and top register. So far the people I've spoken with so far have confirmed this.

Given all that I'm planning to stick with this 1123. It is a bit nicer than my 523, and after all the bass flutes I've played (Rudall Carte, Flutemakers Guild, Emerson and both Jupiters) and advice I've considered from people whose opinions I respect, it seems to be the best bass flute I will ever get for under 6 or 7 grand, and being an amateur musician I can't justify spending that kind of money on a single flute.

Thanks all for the input - it's great to have resources like this.

[Michael Ward]

You probably already know that the Altus bass and altos are made by Jupiter with the headjoint having input from Altus.

[MRC01]

You probably already know that the Altus bass and altos are made by Jupiter with the headjoint having imput from Altus.
Yep. I've read and been told by those in the biz that Jupiter and Altus have the same scale (and it's a very good scale - excellent intonation), while the Altus has a different headjoint. The Altus probably has a "better" action too, though the 1123's action has no obvious problems - it's smooth, quiet and robust.

Given that, it seems the only BIG upgrade from the Jupiter 1123 would be a Kotato or Kingma both of which are around 3 times its price. That makes it an easy decision. :)

The only thing that made the decision hard is the 523 is a such a helluva good flute for the money. It's about 90% the flute the 1123 is for 2/3 the price.

BTW, if anyone wants a great playing 523, let me know - the price is right! :D If not then it's coming soon to an eBay near you...

[bruce bailey]

E-mail me with the price at baileyflutes AT juno DOT com.

[Tibbiecow]

I'm going to guess that the silver piccolo pictured is a Db piccolo.
DANG, I didn't read page 2 before I posted.

[blondemusicgurl]

I've played on many bass flutes, but I am so in love with the bass flute I ended up getting. I have a copper Yamaha bass flute, and it's a kind of beautiful flaw, because It's the only yamaha bass I've ever... not hated... lol. It's wonderful and it projects easily and better than most bass flutes that I've played. I bought the bass flute used from my flute teacher (who is an international classical flute artist), and she gave me a dang good deal on it... I don't know the retail value. But I so love the sound.

[Bootman]

My artley T.S Ogilve is up for sale. Check out the For sale section!

[MRC01]

My artley T.S Ogilve is up for sale. Check out the For sale section!
Say it isn't so! Such a unique flute deserves a good home. I can understand the idea of letting it fund other flutes you might use more often, but it's always difficult to part with such a unique instrument.

As for the original subject of this thread, my recent bass flute swap drove home a point that I had previously only accepted on a theoretical basis. An instrument's sound to the listener may be significantly different from what it sounds like to the player. The Jupiter 1123 sounds only slightly different from the 523 to me playing it, but listeners have told me it sounds significantly different and recordings I've made show the same. That's something for anyone to consider when comparing instruments.