NPR All Things Considered: Taiwanese Saxophones [Archive]

jbtsax

02-25-2008, 10:32 PM

I think Taiwanese saxophones have hit the "pros" already considering the fact that the New Century Saxophone Quartet, Pete Christlieb, Gerald Albright, and many other name players all play Cannonball Saxophones. Cannonball Artists (http://www.cannonballmusic.com/artists.php)

John

Mark5047

02-25-2008, 10:40 PM

And this article only covers one small area of Taiwan. There are other cities that produce quality instruments as well. Interesting article - thanks for posting it.

Gandalfe

02-25-2008, 11:01 PM

I caught the tail end of the broadcast and heard, "This town of 50,000 people made 40,000 alto saxes last year." Unfortunately the sound track that accompanied the news piece was less than stellar with what sounded to my ears to be an intonationally challenged player. 8-)

whaler

02-25-2008, 11:53 PM

magical pig

02-26-2008, 12:10 AM

Here's Mr. Christlieb on his Cannonball; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we6NPpxoiQE

I'm not sure he plays the Cannonball on this video. It looks like a Selmer SBA or BA to me.

Victor.

soybean

02-26-2008, 12:39 AM

Quote: "Their (taiwanese) strategy is to stake out a middle ground between top brands like France's Selmer, or Yamaha of Japan, and the cheap mainland Chinese instruments."

This sentence would effectively answer about 3000 questions posted at SOTW.

whaler

02-26-2008, 12:40 AM

I'm not sure he plays the Cannonball on this video. It looks like a Selmer SBA or BA to me.

Victor.

That was what we call sarcasm. Guys at this level don't play those POS horns.
I guess the way it works is that Cannonball pays him some money, sends him a horn, puts his name on an ad, and it sits in his garage while he plays the horn he's played for 40 years.

ChuBerry47

02-26-2008, 12:46 AM

POS Horns? My teacher performed in over 10 countries with his cannonball soprano, which needless to say, he bought with his own money....

It seems like your comment is once again ill founded. I have had no problem with Cannonball. Maybe you should stop worrying about names, making arrogant comments, and keep practicing. I think my teacher knows a good sax considering he has played in over 50 countries, and can pretty much buy any sax he wants....

I really don't like smart mouths, and considering I have never heard about you, I think you have no room to talk....

magical pig

02-26-2008, 01:08 AM

Oh boy, things are getting nasty again!! :boxing:

ZephyrSax

02-26-2008, 01:11 AM

Taiwanese saxophones have major potential in the future, and even now, some are vastly superior to others. Let's let our personal playing experiences dictate our opinions. The country of origin is becoming less and less of an issue...look how much China makes now.

silverselmer

02-26-2008, 01:16 AM

bottom line is that most of the people who play cannonballs regularly are not making a living off of their playing. i've seen christlieb twice in the last year using a selmer.

ZephyrSax

02-26-2008, 01:16 AM

Gerald Albright, however, uses his regularly. I don't think it matters what he plays, so long as it works for him.

Desax

02-26-2008, 01:44 AM

I heard the entire NPR broadcast FWIW. I think one of the key issues made that was relevant was the statement made in regards to loss of business to China. Some Selmers for example made in Taiwann are better than some made here, or am I wrong, I think they quit making them here, not sure. Point is, China wants to get into the act and with cheap, and the cheap Taiwan horns (if not just pieces) are being contracted out to china, shipped back to Taiwan for further work, etc. These adds you see on EBAY though that say, "Family good invest, you make very good invest"!!!! Very rare culture purchase????A purple sax??? Someone help me before I hurt myself!!

CSharp

02-26-2008, 02:38 AM

Guys at this level don't play those POS horns.

With all due respect, dig this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSm7LpfXHfE&feature=related

or maybe this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aH-lz1Yhvk&feature=related

Bottom line is when I listen to an album, I'm not thinking about what they're playing on...just diggin' the music. There are goods and bads in all makes, models and years. PERIOD.

Forget about what others think and go with what works for you.

ChuBerry47

02-26-2008, 02:40 AM

Amen Brotha!!!!

Mark5047

02-26-2008, 02:57 AM

With all due respect, dig this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSm7LpfXHfE&feature=related

or maybe this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aH-lz1Yhvk&feature=related

Bottom line is when I listen to an album, I'm not thinking about what they're playing on...just diggin' the music. There are goods and bads in all makes, models and years. PERIOD.

Forget about what others think and go with what works for you.
In the second clip what kind of horn is he playing? I didnt know Cannonball made a while horn......

CSharp

02-26-2008, 03:15 AM

Looks like an LA Sax but I'm not sure....but I think it's safe to say its probably a taiwanese horn.

ZephyrSax

02-26-2008, 03:22 AM

Actually, the white one is Gerald's white Selmer Series II. The tenor is his Cannonball, and you can see his Cannonball Gerald Albright series alto in some of his other clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuZY0A5r9nQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62oclLVhsFA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZMXYXaxNKU

Three of my favourites. ;) The solos are amazing in these. Enjoy the altissimo.

CSharp

02-26-2008, 03:28 AM

Wow - my bad. I can't recall ever seeing a white selmer.

jbtsax

02-26-2008, 03:30 AM

That was what we call sarcasm. Guys at this level don't play those POS horns. I guess the way it works is that Cannonball pays him some money, sends him a horn, puts his name on an ad, and it sits in his garage while he plays the horn he's played for 40 years.
Yo Whaler. You are way out of line. First of all check this link to see who plays these "POS" horns exclusively. New Century Quartet (http://www.newcenturysax.com/cannonball.htm) I saw them in person two weeks ago and their Cannonball saxes were in their hands not in the closet. Another thing when they were in Utah, each member of the quartet stopped at the Cannonball main facility and purchased a new model Cannonball after spending most of the day trying different horns. Yes purchased! Unlike other manufacturers and distributors, Cannonball does not give away their instruments in return for endorsements. These are facts that I know from personal experience with the Cannonball owners. It is not my opinion.

It could very well be that Pete Christlieb made that video recording before he switched to a Cannonball tenor. He is coming to Provo, Utah to be guest soloist with the BYU Jazz Ensemble. I will report back if he is playing one so you can be better informed.

John

Bloo Dog

02-26-2008, 03:54 AM

whaler

02-26-2008, 12:20 PM

Yo Whaler. You are way out of line. First of all check this link to see who plays these "POS" horns exclusively. New Century Quartet (http://www.newcenturysax.com/cannonball.htm) I saw them in person two weeks ago and their Cannonball saxes were in their hands not in the closet. Another thing when they were in Utah, each member of the quartet stopped at the Cannonball main facility and purchased a new model Cannonball after spending most of the day trying different horns. Yes purchased! Unlike other manufacturers and distributors, Cannonball does not give away their instruments in return for endorsements. These are facts that I know from personal experience with the Cannonball owners. It is not my opinion.

It could very well be that Pete Christlieb made that video recording before he switched to a Cannonball tenor. He is coming to Provo, Utah to be guest soloist with the BYU Jazz Ensemble. I will report back if he is playing one so you can be better informed.

John
I would think that if he has a deal with Cannonball, as the other guys do, he more than likely won't thumb his nose at the Cannonball rep by not playing their horn when he is performing in their "home state".
Could it be that Cannonball is sponsoring his appearance at BYU?
I understand that guys get defensive when they have to justify playing these kinds of horns. Good horns are expensive.

Desax

02-26-2008, 02:27 PM

CSHARP, Gerald Albright is a great player. Love his music and style. I think the context of the thread was loss of business in Taiwan to China. Fact is, Taiwan years ago started jobbing out parts to China, (Japan does also) ships them back for the finer workings. China said, hey why just pieces, we can do it all. So it will be interesting to see, say in 8-10 years what or who climbs to the top, who falls. In the mean time, has anyone ordered one of these pink or purple sax's and do they work???

jbtsax

02-26-2008, 02:34 PM

I understand that guys get defensive when they have to justify playing these kinds of horns. Good horns are expensive.
Unbelievable. :scratch:

John

Ryan427

02-29-2008, 10:37 PM

Actually, the white one is Gerald's white Selmer Series II. The tenor is his Cannonball, and you can see his Cannonball Gerald Albright series alto in some of his other clips:

Confirmed :thumbrig:

I was walking down the boardwalk in Oceanside two weeks ago and saw a guy with a Selmer tenor just like that: white lacquer body, gold lacquer keys. It was a Super 80. He said he special ordered from Selmer that way.

Poor thing was the worse for wear, though. I guess all the salt in the air will tear the horn apart over the years.

BarrySachs

03-01-2008, 01:36 AM

BTW, I'm the soprano player in the theme for "All Things Considered".
Recorded in 1995 in DC.

hakukani

03-01-2008, 02:01 AM

BTW, I'm the soprano player in the theme for "All Things Considered".
Recorded in 1995 in DC.

Sorry, it was in Morning Edition, not All Things Considered.

I listen to both almost every school day on my 1 hour commute.

BarrySachs

03-01-2008, 03:07 PM

Sorry, it was in Morning Edition, not All Things Considered.

I listen to both almost every school day on my 1 hour commute.

Yeah, I listen to NPR all the time, although I don't usualy get up until Morning Edition is over. I get to hear my own saxophone playing on ATC everyday! It just goes to show you that nothing leads to anything in the music business.;)

bubblegirlsax

03-01-2008, 03:23 PM

China-made products aren't always a bad thing. For example, when I bought my jewelry from there, I found the items much cheaper. I bought 100 silver-plate rings for $20, when the same ring products were selling at Amazon $20 each. With the Internet I think the Chinese factories are beginning to sell direct and are able to make more money for their workers and please the public with better prices.

Let's say normally that pack of 100 rings would sell for $10 wholesale, they'd get very little profit. Whereas, selling to the public for $20 doubles their earnings but actually impresses their retail customer. The same may be happening with some of these saxophones. Maybe some are based on the stencils of expensive companies because they were involved in that brand's make anyway? In reviews around we are certainly seeing good performers in the "cheap Chinese" market.

At the same time, can you blame companies who turn to Chinese manufacture when the public are demanding a reduction in environmental pollution? It's like we want products to be made in the US, UK, Australia, etc (our own country), but then say we don't want to burn so much fossil fuel, and insurance and wages are in controversy.

Pete Thomas

03-01-2008, 03:47 PM

I understand that guys get defensive when they have to justify playing these kinds of horns. Good horns are expensive.

That statement is a little out of date. The horns currently coming from Taiwan and China are now extremely high quality. I sometimes use them for professional recording sessions out of preference, not due to endorsements (though endorsement deals have been offered).

I for one am happy that good saxophones can be bought very inexpensively, it opens up the whole world of saxophone playing to people who otherwise could not afford a good instrument.

"You get what you pay for" - pure marketing hype.

Gandalfe

03-01-2008, 10:00 PM

More and more people are starting to get clued into this Pete. I suspect old experience die hard. Trying new things in the industry will result in learning a lot, educating me to new opportunities, and making my enjoyment of music an ever enriching experience.

As the section leader for a 15+ sax/clarinet section, I am constantly lending my instruments to key players with instruments in the shop. I lend my Antigua Winds and Kessler Customs the most and have heard nothing but superlatives about them. I luv it when a guy playing a Mark VI sax sez, if you ever want to sell that instrument (yes a Taiwanese instrument) I'd like first dibs.

When we think in absolutes, we can tend to limit ourselves. And in school any question with the words 'never' or 'always' was usually wrong. 8-)

Gandalfe

03-01-2008, 10:05 PM

BTW, I'm the soprano player in the theme for "All Things Considered". Recorded in 1995 in DC.That is just too cool. I'll have to pay attention now. 8-)

BlueTrane2028

04-01-2008, 06:29 PM

My "Olds" (who knows who made it, probably Taiwan) soprano is on par with a new Selmer Paris soprano, if not a little better. That's the general agreement among my saxophone playing friends who I let borrow it from time to time, because they prefer my sax to the college's new Series III.

acti0n_jacks0n

07-17-2008, 09:31 PM

So what has been pointed out here? Taiwanese horns are NOT crap. They actually have a threshold of quality that they adhere to. The Chinese.. can't say the same for them. If you are purchasing these horns over the internet, be SURE you aren't being folded into the Chinese market. The cultures are nearly identical.. China still considers the rogue island a part of its country. Just be 110% of what you are buying over the internet.. or if you can't be.. next time you are in Hollywood pop your head inside Laksar Reese's store and try one out for yourself :)

Here is a very rough quality chart for your horn buying needs

Chinese horns -> Student name brand horns -> Most Taiwanese horns/Intermediate horns from everybody else -> The few exceptional Taiwanese horns -> Pro horns from everybody else

Of course that is a very rough sketch, because there are the few cases when your YTS-61's keys start falling off for no apparent reason (first time I saw my friend cry ever, I might add) or when that Cannonball, dare I say it? BLASTS the competition into oblivion :)

Just food for thought.

DixieSax

07-17-2008, 10:01 PM

I would agree that the Taiwanese and Chinese horns are getting better by leaps and bounds. The problem is that they have a bad image to overcome from the years of absolute trash instruments that came from that part of the world, and a bad reputation doesn't go away overnight.

Likewise, most modern Selmers don't live up to the MK VI standard, but the reputation sells a lot of them. I think that if people could put aside their biases and try horns with a completely open mind, a lot more people would end up happy with their gear.

MartinMusicMan

07-17-2008, 10:20 PM

I understand that guys get defensive when they have to justify playing these kinds of horns. Good horns are expensive.I understand that guys get defensive when they have to justify how much they paid for their expensive horns when there are horns that are just as good for a third the cost.

My Phil Barone tenor is a pro quality, well-built horn. I got it as a backup for my Martin Music Man. I'm gigging with the Barone and the Martin is resting quietly in its case.

GaithersburgReeds

07-18-2008, 01:17 AM

BTW, I'm the soprano player in the theme for "All Things Considered".
Recorded in 1995 in DC.

Was that the Washington Saxophone Quartet? Do you still play with them?

michaelbaird

07-18-2008, 01:44 AM

I love those NPR sax clips. They are great and a joy to listen to.

07-18-2008, 02:38 AM

Quoting the article... "The Taiwanese government and the private sector are furiously investing in research and development, quality control and marketing."

I'd like to see the U.S government invest in Conn and bring back the 10M.

In Elkhart.

58tenor

08-07-2008, 06:15 AM

Some wouldn't know a turd from a Baby Ruth. Best to stay out of the pool, then. POS? What a display of ignorance.

Kelpie

10-04-2008, 01:29 AM