R1 Jazz compared to YAS 82Z

[Saxman71680]

By chance, has anyone here done a side by side comparison of the R1 Jazz line and the YAS 82Z? And also am I correct in saying that the plating that the R/C company does on their instruments (ie: Gold/Silver heavy plating) is NOT lacquered? Just curious to hear what people have to say.

[sycc]

I just purchased a R1 sopranino finished in 24K vintage gold plate. The vintage gold plate is 24K and is not lacquered. The flash gold plate is lacquered I believe.

[sycc]

Here's your Rampone available finishes!!!http://saxforte.com/saxophones/materials_and_finishes/Rampone___Cazzani_Finishes/rampone___cazzani_finishes.html

[sycc]

The only Yamaha Z I played was a tenor at Sam Ash. A/Bing a Yamaha against a Rampone will be difficult as Sax Forte is the only dealer of Rampone. It would have to be done at Sax Forte in SC or by a individual that owns both Rampones and Yamahas. Maybe used examples could be compared if by dumb luck a store that was a Yamaha dealer had a used Rampone or is a used sax dealer has both.

[Dave Dolson]

I owned a Yamaha Z alto (lacquered brass) and then an R&C R1 silverplated alto. The Z was the best one I'd come across (I'd been searching and testing them, lacquered and UNlacquered, none of which knocked my socks off until I came upon the one I bought).

Even then, the Z was just mildly interesting and I didn't really like it in the end. I sold it. Why did I buy it? A fellow SOTW poster needed to move it on and I took it off his hands. Nice enough horn (better than the others I'd tried), just no cigar.

I'd owned three R&C's (tipped-bell sop, 'nino, and then the silver alto). All were better than any Yamaha I'd tried or owned.

Of all of those saxophones, I liked the R1 alto the best. Still, I have a closet full of really good altos and I sold the R&C alto.

As far as lacquer over the plating, I'm not sure EVEN after reading the link that sycc provided. Still, I'd guess that the R&C horns weren't lacquered. Their gold-plate and silver plate was nicely done and did not tarnish as long as I owned the R1.

But the presence or absence of lacquer is a non-issue for me - makes no difference except to the maintenance one needs to do on unlacquered silver to keep it from tarnishing. The R&C didn't tarnish, but it came to me with 3M strips in the case, so maybe that was the reason. DAVE

[bkiser]

I have owned both. I A/B'd them for several weeks and kept the 82Z, even knowing that I would take a bath on the sale of the Rampone. Now, dont get me wrong, the Rampone was a nice horn. The intonation was better than the 82Z. For big band gigs, the R&C couldnt be touched. It could easily cut through a large section without breaking a sweat, and it was always a big, somewhat spread out sound. Its response and ergos were lacking compared to the 82Z. Mostly, I found that it just wasnt as flexible. What it could do, it did REALLY well. I just needed more of an all-around horn. I got a regular gig playing more modern stuff....fusion, r&r, etc. and I fought with the R&C in trying to split tones, squeal, and make other offensive sounds. The 82Z will whisper or scream and requires less thought of the horn, once the intonation tendencies are learned.

My polished gold-plate R&C was not lacquered. It was gorgeous. But, in the end, it was just too "locked in" to a tonal concept that wasn't mine. If you can, try to find a used R&C, that way if you dont like it, you wont lose your shirt. But, if you want a more focused, malleable sound, the 82Z might be up your alley. Whatever you do PLAY BEFORE YOU BUY, even if that means a plane ticket to Greenville, SC.

[bfoster64]

bkiser, what intonation tendencies have you found in your 82Z alto?

[bkiser]

Middle C# is a bit flat- I usually correct with octave key+LH4 fingering, or lip it. Its no worse than my Selmer S80 was. On the palm keys I had to focus on keeping a consistent embochure and keeping my throat more open to keep from going sharp. Minor things. Ive heard a Ponzol or Barone neck might "fix" the issue, but I like the response of the stock neck. Some of my preference comes form the fact that the 82Z is just so darn easy to play. I have always played with a thick, dark sound, and I think the R&C was just a little too broad in tone for me. I had the same issue on tenor- I had a very early SX-90R which is a killer horn, but I just didnt sound good on it. Switched to a more focused B&S and got much closer to my goal. Just be aware that R&C's seem to be somewhat inconsistent- definitely play before you buy or be prepared to spend $$ to get it setup by your favorite tech as it might be needed.