Depression

[Amy]

A friend and I were talking about a mutual friend who unfortunately suffers from depression. We have nothced that a lot of musicians suffer from this (my friend is a musician). What's ironic is that I would have thought that the enjoyment of playing music would eliminate a lot of bad feelings. It might just be a coincidence........comments, anyone?

[gary]

I would have thought that the enjoyment of playing music would eliminate a lot of bad feelings.
Maybe it does. Maybe without the music the bad feelings would be badder.

[mark_m]

Well, given the economics of being a musician, the lack of support nationally for the arts, and the visibility and wealth of the small number of "successful" musicians, there are ample reasons to be depressed if one was so inclined.

I do find, for myself, music is what keeps me going, happy, sane... the general lack of time for it is my only source of depression.

[Sigmund451]

Being a therapist I have my own take on this situation. I dont believe that people are depressed because they are musicians...even if there may be reasons. I would rather suggest that many people, given a specific predisposition for a skill engage in that skill as an outlet to help relieve the depression and to help give form and expression to their emotive state. There are many characteristics that depressed people and artists share. One of those key elements is that most are self critical and very demanding of themselves. If this is not kept in resonable check by either type of individual a depressed state will likely find a host. Additionally, as a result of the self critical and at times self loathing attitudes found in depression many artists abandon their craft as it becomes to painful to see themselves constantly fail (from their negativistic perspective).

Help is avaliable and readily so. I suggest your friend seek it. Depression is like the flu of the mental health world. It is highly treatable and the suffering that accompanies it is a largely unnecessary state.

[dingfelder]

I believe that depression would cause some to not want to much, including practicing, so in fact it might cause to make you less of a musician over time...

[Sigmund451]

No, the depressed usually want more than is humanly possible, at least in their specific situation. This leads to feelings of failure which THEN may lead to giving up. Its a complicated process and cycle of self defeating behaviors but it doesnt start with not wanting. It starts with wanting and overly self critical behavior when involved in a process that requires acceptance of process. The decreased motivation occurs later, once the person has beat themself to a pulp.

[Andres]

All artists and musicians are supposed to feel tortured and depressed. Can't make art without suffering, and all that BS. Didn't ya get the memo? :roll:

I think that playing the music makes one feel better, but these types fall back into Sigmund451's mental "negative mode" and start thinking how horrible their performance was, or start fretting about their spouses, next gig, broken equipement, heroin dealer, or their <insert problem here>.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[larry]

Interesting insights Sigmund - I've often wondered about the relationship between "insanity" and "creativity". If one aspect of being creative is the ability to make mental connections between concepts that the majority of humans don't make - isn't that almost a definition of "not sane"? (i.e. since no dixie players used tritone substitutions, weren't the first bop players outside the standard frame of accepted "sane" musical practices?)

There is lots of anecdotal evidence about the "craziness" of some of the world's most creative minds: VanGogh, Dali, Listz for example. I suppose you can name just as many completely sane artists as well, but they don't get the same press.

One thing that disturbs me is the high rate of drug and alcohol abuse among musicians (as far back as Mozart) but jazz players seem to have taken it to an extreme. Is that a "feature" of the kind of mind that wants to make jazz, or a consequence of the jazz environment?

One last thing? You mentioned that depression is pretty easily treated these days - are most of those treatments pharmacological or are there other approaches for depression?

Thanks,
larry

[Sigmund451]

Im not sure that Jazz players have taken drugs to any more extreme than some other artists or musicians. I think one thing that may seem to highlight that effect is that there are fewer "Greats" in the Jazz world than there are "Popular" musicians in the pop or rock world. So Im not sure that there is any stronger correlation between the music and the drugs. However, why they go hand in hand...well, they offer a different perspective, a different way of hearing, and at times can lead to an expansion in the where one takes a piece. I am trying to be objective here, Im not condoning sticking yourself with an arm full of heroine but I believe its important to understand it from a neutral perspective. The environment cant be ignored by any means either. I think both lead people into behaviors that have been unfortunate.

As for treatment for depression....Medications have come a long way but depressed people think in depressive patterns. The drugs can make one feel better but unless the depressive cycle of thought and perception are addressed in a therapeutic/cognitive/behavioral manner the positive impact of medicatons can be overcome in short order. This is one problem with primary care physicians perscribing meds and not requiring some form of counseling. They arent happy pills. They do not make the necessity of work a moot point. You still have to learn and most relearn your scales (so to speak). So basically the most effective treatment by far is a mix of quality counseling and medication intervention.

[Vortex]

Interesting article here on the thoughts of many of the jazz greats on narcotics in the jazz-musician community.

http://perso.club-internet.fr/barybary/article/playboy1.htm

[Minatar12]

Ah, the cannonball interview. With Ellington and Gillespie too I believe? Great article.

[SAXE]

IS DEPRESSION AMONG PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS ANY DIFFERENT THAN IN ANY OTHER PROFESSION? TO ME, PLAYING THE SAX IS RELAXING. YET, MY LIVELIHOOD IS NOT DEPENDENT ON IT. NO PRESSURE, NO STRESS.

[Nefertiti]

Saxe,
No need to yell is there? :lol:

[MS]

I believe there may be need.

[SAXE]

NEFERTITI, SORRY, I WAS THE YOUNGEST OF ELEVEN CHILDREN. :Rant2:

[warmdaddy]

Apropos of discussion on jazz and narcotics. I have an interesting quote which I am sure you have all heard (if you were watching Ken Burns Jazz).

'Jazz was born in a whisky barrell, grew up on marijuana and is about to expire on heroin.'

- Artie Shaw.
:shock:

[Torachan]

For anyone who may be depressed may I suggest "Feeling good. The new mood therapy" by Burns. Really good stuff. Good for dealing with anger as well. Helped me

[Sigmund451]

I agree Torachan, I do this work professionally and I have a general distaste for self help books as most are touchy-feely warm fuzzys that lead nowhere. However, Burns book is excellent. Its basis rest firmly in proven strategies of cognitive/behavioral therapy. I suggest it to many of my client...especially those who are more dedicated and proactive in treatment.

[Vortex]

If you're depressed and need to motivate yourself, I'd recommend finding a song that really touches you on the inside, whether it's Yes' "Soon", Freddie Hubbard's "Polar AC", the Glazunov Concerto, something by The Mercury Program, some Greg Osby, some David Sanborn, whatever give you that warm fuzzy feeling and you really connect with. I've felt this many times and I can tell you life is not complete without it. When you find the right song and hear it in the right conditions, it's more powerful than any substance in the world. Either that or try soloing to something that really has a lot of emotion and drive like Nat Adderley Jr's "I'm On My Way". Connect, feel, and be whole.

[Torachan]

Sigmund451 - I am a big fan of Ellis and Becks work. Cognitive Behaviour Therapy is awsome but it's no panacea. I guess it works when people are prepared to do something about their unproductive/ irrational behaviours. If they are happy being unhappy (oxymoron perhaps) then CBT won't be their bag. I am not a fan of anti-depressents as I think that what a lot of people need is some time spent with them by their GP but their GP doesn't have the time or is unprepared to put any effort in it so a prescription is the easiest solution.

Anyone who is depressed...... Basically problems such as depression are caused by the way we interpret things that happen to us rather than the actual thing itself.

Depression is linked to perceived loss. The loss can be financial, a death, relationship break up, loss of enjoyment (example a dancer breaking her ankle so she can't dance for a long time). Loss can also be about not getting what we want or never gettting something back. So the first question to ask yourself is "what's missing?"

In my case University was the source of my depression. I think it had to do with the loss of my free time, the sense of wasting my time (which I'd never get back) and the idea that whilst at uni I wasn't doing what I wanted (studying Nursing but want to be a Paramedic or in Japan)

I hope this helps someone. If it sounds a bit disjointed just skip it.

Best of luck

[schnibs]

personally i find if im feeling down its usually coz i havent played in a while, and just need to vent some steam, you know? I can forget everything when playing. 8)

[Sigmund451]

There is no panacea. I do believe in antidepressant therapy in certain situations. I am opposed to GPs handing them out without the strict requirement of therapy. The effects wear off rapidly because the perceptions and depressive thought patterns pervail despite "feeling" better for a period of time. Of course depression is based upon perceptions but true depression is based on perceptions that a person cannot change without dedication and insight that QUALITY guided treatment can provide. And of course quality is the key...the field, just as many is filled with unqualified over educated persons that lack insight into how to assit others. Id say that at best one out of a dozen counselors should have ever graduated...kinda like music...most should just put down their instrument and take up rummy (no offence to card players intended). Additionally, no school of thought in treatment has the final word on what will assist the greatest. Treatment must be constantly reinvented and tailor made for each individual for it to be effective. While the general theories exist there must be room for expansion and creatve merging of style and philosophy. Personally, Im a humanistic, insight based extentialist, analytic, behavioral/cognitive based therapist. My training was traditional psychotherapy models, my supervision was by analysts, and Ive worked in both solution model therapy as well as a pure behaviorist (for over a year). Theres a mix for ya!

[Vortex]

The point I was trying to get across earlier is, and this is not meant to sound harsh or mean-spirited: Snap out of it, it's all in your head.

[averageschmoe]

but there's the rub. it IS all in yer head. not something you can easily get away from without radical surgery, or a horrible accident of some kind. oh well.

[No Clever Name]

Vortex... I do not mean to sound "all-knowing," "all-experienced," or any such BS. After all, I am still a highschool student.

This yeah, I had an interesting year. The day after my 17th birthday (November 23rd), I was admitted into a Psychiatric institute where I lived for over a month, with constant structure... and not to mention lots of therapy. Average stay is 14 days... I was there for a month. And by the time I got out, I had myself convinced that I was "ready for anything;" or at least, knew I had the resources to deal with anything. As it turns out, I didn't. Some things got to me, and instead of turning to my parents, my psychologist... even my friends, I started cutting myself. May sound stupid.. probably was. May make you question "What the f***?" and I'm not surprised. But with the simple stroke of a blade, I could turn all of my intangible emotional pain into physical pain, something I could deal with. I wore long sleeves, and kept it up for a couple months. At the end of that time, I overdosed on Vioxx and left myself for dead. Well, my body must not have wanted to die, because after I passed out I vomitted, saving my life. I was in ICU for a week or so, then I went back to the Psych institute. I got out at the end of February, and I tell you, I still have trouble being happy. Yeah, sax helps.. I won't deny it. I am happy when I play sax. But (this isn't constant like it used to be), I don't have the will to play. I know it could cheer me up... but I don't pick up my horn of the stand and start blowing. Well, I am more days than not, now... but last fall, the only playing I did was in school. So... maybe it is in your head. Maybe you're right. But if my experience tells me anything... you can't just expect people to "snap out of it." My closest friend kept telling me last fall, "You can feel better.. you just have to think positively." Maybe so. But her telling me that made me feel worse. Because I COULDN'T think like that. I wasn't good enough to. At least, that's what my brain told me.

Well, that felt good to type, anyway. Interestingly enough, my mom talked to my jazz director while I was in treatment, asked him to write them a letter to allow me to play my horn while I was in treatment (he did, and it worked... I played almost every night for the other patients.. they enjoyed it immensely). When she was talking to him, she apologized for the way my playing had suffered. He asked her what she was talking about; when she said that she hadn't heard me practice in months, he said, "What? Danny's playing this year has really been taken to a new level. I thought he must have practice constantly throughout the summer." Soooo... maybe there is something to the whole "musician in pain being able to express his emotions through music" thing. But IMHO, I'd rather be normal and practice harder than depressed and play a little better.

I guess to the original poster I could write this: Yeah, you are definitely right in thinking that music can help eliminate a lot of bad feelings. But ask a depressed musician how much he plays outside of gigs and required playing times, and I'll bet it's not a whole lot. Or maybe I'm way off base. Who knows. My $.02.

[Sigmund451]

No Clever Name: Given your statement I would suggest looking into DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) if you have not yet. It can be helpful for someone with tendencies as you have described. Its good material for anyone for that matter. You are quite correct, "snap out of it" just doesnt work. If it did I would be out of a job or my job would become infinitely less of a challenge.

In general I also suggest Burns self help depression books. They contain some very valuable tools to address depression. They are not a substitute for treatment if its severe but it can help those who are functionally depressed (whatever that means).

By all means I urge people to get some help if its at all accessable. The success rate is extremely high if the client is willing to work and if he/she finds a reasonably skilled clinician.

[No Clever Name]

Thanks Sigmund... I have been working out of a few of Burns' books, in conjunction with regular sessions with my psychologist. I'll look into DBT.. I don't think I've ever heard of it (or at least heard of it called DBT before). I'll ask my doc, too.

[HC]

The point I was trying to get across earlier is, and this is not meant to sound harsh or mean-spirited: Snap out of it, it's all in your head.

Talking to a friend of mine, who is a very skilled musician. Suffers from depression, but is taking pills for it though. Said that telling a depression patient to be happy is like telling someone with cancer to get better. It is a very serious medical condition if not treated.

But what leads depression patients to suicide? That's something I have yet to understand.

[Amy]

Suicide seems to be the only way out. Life is such an uphill struggle permanently and there is often nothing left to live for. It is the only escape. Depressed people often see themselves as a liability to everyone else and think it would be better if they were out of the way. They see no future and think they may as well end it all now.

[No Clever Name]

Indeed, that may be the case.

I think it's all strictly individual, though. All based on circumstance. Some commit suicide because they are angry and want to cause others pain. Some do because they see life as pointless and think it would be meaningless to carry on. Others (and this was how I think/was thinking) just want the pain to end. They may not even want to die all that much... they just want release. And once drugs don't cut it anymore, and cutting doesn't cut it.. suicide is about the only option left.

Imagine the worst day of your life. Everything's going/gone wrong. Your wife told you she wants a divorce, your kids were killed in a accident on the bus, you are fired from your job and the bank just told you that you have 30 days before your home will be repossessed. And all of your horns just got stolen. Now, take the way you feel... and that's how a depression patient feels. Sure, even in this situation you may be able to look and find SOMETHING good... but most anyone wouldn't. No matter what a truly depressed person has going for them, all they see is the negatives. It's like having the worst day of your life every day for 3 months straight (or longer). Now, add to that the mindset that you know, you are absolutely certain, that things will not be getting any better. If you are thinking like that... it is no surprise that there are suicides. Suicide, after that, seems pleasant.

[sopsax]

Amy, thank you for opening this helpful discussion.

No Clever Name, you've described the subjective feeling of depression (from a musician's perspective) as well as anybody I've ever read. Good luck. You know what you're talking about, and it takes courage to be open about it. People, listen to this guy.

Vortex and schnibs, your well-meaning comments -- i.e., snap out of it, play more -- miss the point. Depression is not laziness, a bad attitude, or a perverse unwillingness to stop and smell the flowers. Depression is not even sadness, in the conventional sense. Depression is not about anything. Depression simply is.

It is a condition of the brain that turns your life inside out, layering a crushing sea of despair over everything you experience. It robs you of the confidence to get things done. It robs you of satisfaction in your accomplishments. It robs you of the enjoyment of life.

It's caused by a biochemical imbalance, comparable I suppose to having hay fever or being lactose-intolerant. I've found some medications to be of some use -- the search to find effective dosages and combinations can take years. Some people benefit from the talking cure, although it's never done much for me. I am fortunate to have devoted family and friends, and this more than anything else keeps me walking around in the corporeal world. But without the meds, even this might not be enough.

Woodshedding on the sax does help keep the demons at bay, and I genuinely enjoy performing. And yes, listening to music I love can help lift my mood (until the tune ends). But music doesn't necessarily have much effect one way or the other on the underlying condition of depression. One can beat depression into submission with chemicals; one can get on with life through sheer force of will. But I don't think it's possible to make depression go away; it is so pervasive that it becomes part of one's personality, coloring all of one's perceptions and behavior.

Just one person's perspective. Hope this helps in a small way to illuminate the discussion.

[Amy]

But sometimes the music actually makes the person's mood worse. It 'moves' them, but not in a good way. There is only one song that I can listen to that actually makes me feel happy. Maybe it's just the way I see things as a depressed person (oh by the way, I originally started this thread about myself as I suffer from depression but was too embarrassed to admit it was me. But, everyone else is coming out of the closet now so....) but I can't see the good side of things as it's been said before and I tend to see the bad side of even music. I am very very very overcritical of my playing, more so than just a regular musician. And like I said, when I am in a bad mood there isn't much I can do to help myself, even setting up my sax seems like too much effort.

Knowing that I only see the bad side of things, which has come to my attention through therapy, has helped though. Whenever I start to think about the bad things I think, "Hang on, I'm doing it again, I'm blocking out the good side of things.", take a step back and try assessing the whole situation again. It can help - sometimes.

[No Clever Name]

Yeah, keep that up Amy. It takes effort... but it does get easier. Apparently it starts happening automatically, even... I'll have to see about that.

Try to place yourself around positive influences... family members who are supportive, friends who are supportive. It really does help. Though when it comes down to it, it is a highly individual effort. But I'm sure I speak for the majority of sotw when I say that we're rooting for you. Kick the crap out of that depression, girl!

[Sigmund451]

It took repeated effort (though unconscious) to learn depressive patterns of perception and thought. Relearning requires vigilance, belief, and repeated application of new understandings. One also has to be willing to give up the secondary gain of ones depressed status. All behavior/thought is fueled by ongoing conscious or subconscious reinforcment.

That will be 5 cents.

[jd]

no clever name. i had the worst summer of my life. found out the wife of 17 years was having an affair! she actually fell in love! ive been through hell.!!! counseling ,antidepreesants,actually didnt sleep for 5 days and got bronchitus! have to take pills to sleep! .we have 2 kids!! i kicked her out of the house 2 months ago. she took the kids and we have been shuttling them back and forth all summer. i was devastated. i didnt want to play music or golf or do anything i liked!
i took action though. started working out .walking ,wieghts,pushups ,situps.took out my anger on my body.continued counseling.my wife asked me for a divorce on freaking fathers day!! worst day of my life.i didnt leave the house much for a month! anyways i was playing a wedding last saturday and got the nerve to hit on this beautiful women.(first time i hit on a women in 18 years!! the thought never crossed my mind because i thought i was happily married. anyways we went out a few times and our first date was the best day of my summer. shes fine!! and warm!!! life just got exciting again. i felt like i was 13! im 45...
my ex felt so giulty about destroying our family that shes letting me keep the house ,splitting custody and not even charging me child support. (i support the kids and always will anyways. she just wants out to marry this guy. he will probably run for the hills once she is divorced. he is 41 with no friends no family and works as a box boy at a ware house. he poor. i have teach school and work as a pro sax player and run a par time business.
im coming out of my depression and i think life is going to be way better now.i hope!! what a summer. i hope we both get what we deserve . sometimes i miss my wife.(then i reload) just a joke.

[No Clever Name]

Hey JD.

Sorry to hear about that. I do know how hard it is to keep living a normal life when you feel like laying around and sleeping. I'm happy that you've been able to take that action and get out and exercise, stay active. Not only does it help your mind, it puts your body in shape too! Keep it up, the ladies will be all over you again in no time.

[jd]

thanks for the encouragement. yea i went from 220 to 178 pounds. now im toning it up. i have confidance to approach women and people seem to react differently to me when im lighter! weird!
anyways the antidepresants have finally kicke in and im starting to get back to taking my 11 yearold son golfing. we played golf for years . he is my golf buddy my son and my best friend.i suck at golf but its just a way to be outdoors and spend time with my boy. i was always the primary caregiver with my kids. now the wife is trying to win them over by taking them swimming,to the amusement park,zoo etc... she never cared to spend time with them before. shes feels so guilty and im finally getting time to do anything i want.its kind of fun . no more having to "ask "permission to go or do anything.im callinng old friends and making some new ones. just having some fun like i used to in my single days. im still sad about the family being destroyed but im taking it day by day and figure its my turn to have some fun. the divorce wont go through for a month or 2 . so im just just trying to be careful and not bring any girls over to the house when my kids are there. i guess it will get easier. i hope!!! anyways this new women i met seems as interested in me as i am in her. i want to take it slow.technically im still married but i dont feel like im doing anything wrong.i think the best way to get over one women is to get another one. i dont want to be one of these guys thats sits around and looks back all the time got to look forward. right??

[Nefertiti]

Just be careful. I have seen plenty of men and women make huge mistakes with the "the best way to get over someone is by meeting someone else" philosophy.

[jd]

your right nefertiti.my dad just told me the same thing/ im not in a big rush to get remarried. i just hate being by myself so i think datiing at the age of 45 might be fun. i never thought i would be dating again! beats sitting at home. thats when i really get depressed. it seems like if i have a date ,at least its something to look forward to. but yea ,im going to be careful that i dont pick another problematic women. (if there is such a thing as one thats not??)usually i can see some red flags on the first date but who knows??

[michaelbaird]

I get depressed alot. I pray and leave it in God's hands.

[Joe Jazz]

jd, glad to hear you're hanging in there, rather than hanging yourself! Your wife did you a big favor, it will just take a while for that to become apparent........focus on the present and let the past be what it is.....gone by..... Sig gave you a break by only charging you 5 cents, I'm gonna charge you all the BBQ I can eat whenever I get up your way!!!! Despite rumors to the contrary(started by your soon to be ex-wife no doubt)good things do come to good people, if they are open to the signs....stay open to the good stuff(sometimes I sound like a Pizza Hut commercial)!

[jd]

thanks for the kind words joe. well .. the new relationship didnt seem to work out but i think your right. she did me a favor. you look me up when you get to the cleveland area. we will have a bbq!! well i reported to my day gig (teaching school) and i looked like a different guy. dyed the gray hair brown and toned up from 230 to a lean 180.(6 feet tall) people were complimenting me and some of the teachers that never spoke to me in years were suddenly all friendly! weird but you get treated different when your lighter! im hangiing in there and trying to me "nice" to the ex... its hard but for the sake of the kids.... well im keeping my head held high and hopefully life will get fun again. im back to practicing a little bit and even playing a little golf. boy do i suck at golf but its fun .
im taking my meds to control the temper and help me sleep. what a summer! im glad its over .being a teacher id never thought i would say that!

[Joe Jazz]

Man, pretty soon you're going to have to fight the women off with your sax! Be careful with the meds(particularly for sleeping), as you don't need to add to your problems. If you're in the Tampa area stop by and I'll show you a few tricks to help with the depression.....unfortunately I'm not licensed to practice in Ohio....... :D

[GuidoTJ]

I have been around people who are chronically depressed, and I went through some depression brought on by chronic pain--30 years of pain will wear you out! I have tried most anti-depressent out there and none worked--and I am drug free now. In fact, the only thing that really does work for me is to consume myself with work or some enjoyable activity. If we use our hands then we get out of our heads, and depression becomes a thing of the past. Most depressed people I see spend a lot of time sitting and doing nothing. Might be a good time to get out and do some volunteer work if you can't find something to do.

[Sassaphone]

Guido, there's depression and there's depression.

[GuidoTJ]

I've worked with people who have suffered various forms of mental illness since 1972. Granted there are dis-eases caused by chemical imbalances, trauma (war, chronic pain), and various genetic maladies. Some forms of depression are unavoidable, but there comes a time where one has to move a head.

Regarding the initial topic: I had a musician friend who suffered from depression, and ended up killing himself by taking a knife to his stomach. I think with musicians, espcially a lot that I know, they sit around a lot between gigs (unless they are busting butt pumping out CDs) doing little but playing their instruments. I believe Van Morrison is on anti-depressants. Even though music is a very creative medium, I think it lacks the properties needed to make one feel that they have done a good days work, sweated, and been productive in the physical sense. I am not a WASP, but I think there is something very therapeutic about hard physical labor--I used to use it as a form of therapy quite successfully.

Depression is especially interesting if one looks at it from a historical soci-economic perspective. First, it seems to be a dis-ease that has evolved with the technological revolution. The less labor we have, the more idle time we have, and the more prevalent depression becomes. You never heard about it during times when labor was required from everyone--the labor of everyday survival.

Never heard about any pioneer woman laying in the back of a wagon depressed and contemplating throwing herself out the back in front of the oncoming cattle stampede. No siree, I think depression is primarily born out of idleness. :shock:

Depression also seems to be a pretty common affliction among the rich. They have too much idle time on their hands. Like they say, idle hands make for idle minds. I say, idle minds lay the ground work for depression, alcoholism, or a needle in da arm. :twisted:

Don't get me wrong. Some people have a legitimate reason to be depressed, but the time comes where one has to say: "Welp, time to get out and start living again. Social-Darwinism. 8)

[Joe Jazz]

Many depressed people sit around doing nothing but thinking about how lousy they feel. Part of the solution for them is finding out what they would be doing if they weren't depressed and then getting them to start doing it. That's the hard part, giving them a boot in the butt to get them going........it's harder to think about how lousy you feel when you're bowling, going to a football game, dancing with some hot babe/guy, watching Shrek II, or playing the sax...... :albino:

[GuidoTJ]

Many depressed people sit around doing nothing but thinking about how lousy they feel. Part of the solution for them is finding out what they would be doing if they weren't depressed and then getting them to start doing it. That's the hard part, giving them a boot in the butt to get them going........it's harder to think about how lousy you feel when you're bowling, going to a football game, dancing with some hot babe/guy, watching Shrek II, or playing the sax...... :albino:

I agree fully, but they need to give themselves the boot in the butt. :(

Man, the rest of us are too busy living, makin' music, and dancing in the streets! 8)

[Joe Jazz]

It's nice when they use their own boot, but they pay me to use mine, to get them to use theirs, so to speak........ :director:

[saxysai]

I am bipolar. I take meds and everything. And yes, I have noticed that mental issues, especially depression, is prevalent among musicians.

In a strange sense, I'm glad I am bipolar; it honestly makes my playing much more personal and emotional.

[Dave Collins]

I asked this question a while back here, and the response was similar. I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar (Manic) Depression back in high school.. I have taken quite a few different anti-depressants and spent about 4 years in counselling. I think the key to getting better is both since clinical depression caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. I definitely heard/hear some of myself in what Sigmund was saying, but I'd have to say that it isn't at all hard to feel lousy when you're playing or watching a football game etc. To me, depression has very little to do with situational sadness. Sounds strange, but I found that nothing gave me much joy with I was feeling worst. Playing saxophone or listening to music is kinda like an escape from the enevitable or sometimes just an exercise in futility. For a person who is depressed, being told that they need a "kick in the butt" or to just get over it, as I was, is about as useful as chastising someone who has no legs to get up and run a marathon. The person wants to do it as bad as you want or expect them to , but that desire only serves t compound the existing pain of depression. Right now, I'm feeling the sense of failure in lots of the tings I do in life. It's a constant struggle. My advice, though, saxysai, to your friend is to start early getting help and stick with it. I wish I had. Maybe I'm talking myself back into it. Depression can have profound positive and negative effects on your musical life though. Sometimes it's almost like being in trance, and you seem to play exactly what's onyour heart. I once found myself playing some classical bari and school and started to improvise in a minor key, and before I knoew it, a couple of my friends were in front of me in tears. It turns out, so was I. Now, though, I rarely play. I'm in the military now and married. I'm not afforded much time to play, so since I used to be a music major(never finished my first year; the lowest point of my life and the highest of my playing ability) I find my sporadic pracice sessions to be disheartening. Kinda sad. I hope I'll find some time later to get back into music like I was. I'm not playing anywhere else--Okinawa's not a musical Mecca--so I'm losing touch with my saxes more and more everyday. The best thing a friend of relative of a depressed person can do is be consistently supportive and do their best never to be judgemental. Trust that they are already doing their best to perk up. It just doesn't work like that, not for me anyway. Sorry for going off on a tangent. Just my two or three cents.

Dave
davesensei@gmail.com

[Joe Jazz]

I'm an Italian-German-American myself........it's kind of like saying "I'm cancer", "I'm gall bladder disease", or "I'm irritable bowel syndrome". I'd say you're a PERSON that just so happens to have problems with feeling too sad and too happy sometimes.....but that's just the way I look at my clients......throughout history I believe many artists have had mental health problems....sometimes the line between genius and madperson(darn political correctness)is very blurred one.... :laughing:

[Dave Collins]

Clinical Depression is a broad term for a range of disorders, none of which is situational sadness, which has its own place, but perhaps I was mistaken in my commenting if "depression," meaning excessive sadness, is the topic. Though people can be driven into a "depression," I would say that the fact that a person who suffers from a chemical imbalance has no event or mental hurdle to conquer. I am not from a prosperous family, plagued only by the idleness brought on by my affluent upbringing. Nor am I struggling to get over a traumatic event. I most definitely don't want to play down being distraught over a event or situation you are in, but I just wanted to point out a difference between those things and Depression, which manifests itself in many more ways than sulking and feeling sorry for oneself. People who have been treated for depression are as often life of the party as they are recluses. Some people express the empty feeling inside themselves by hurting themselves or others. I spoke to my biological father about my treatment and he laughed about his own upbringing. He told me he'd often felt the same way as a child, but his parents and other authority figures told him to perk up or quit being a baby. He's spent his life searching for completeness in everything, never keeping a job for long and turning to drugs and other alternatives to make him forget his problems. I don't, by any stretch, condone anything he's done in response to how he felt, but I know that he's now in treatment and is finally beginning to settle down and says he finally able to "feel." He never sulked and felt sorry for himself aside from wondering about it late at night or when he was alone, but asking any of his friends or family about his depression only produced disbelief and shock. He spent his whole life trying to make sure that no one knew what was going on inside him because everyone told him it didn't make any sense. I think that, like ADD, depression is over-diagnosed nowadays, but that doesn't make it an illegitimate disorder or one new to this age. A while ago, people could say that losing your memory was just old age or stupidity, but we now know that there is Alzheimer's Disease. Does that mean every time you forget something that you should panic, call everyone you know and begin making funeral arrangements? Of course not, but the fact that people like to add a label to a problem, sometimes unnecessarily. If I say I'm blind, am I saying I'm a victim and characterized by my impediment? Ask Stevie Wonder if he thinks so. It’s just a fact.

Dave
davesensei@gmail.com

[Joe Jazz]

Dave,

If you watch the Zoloft commercials you'll notice they say that depression MAY be caused by a chemical imbalance and that taking Zoloft may help. They really don't know for a fact which comes first, the chicken or the egg. Do people feel badly because of a chemical imbalance, or do they have a chemical imbalance because they feel badly? They really don't know. In my experience people having problems with depression are usually either having difficulty coping with a past event(or events) or are struggling with a lack of meaning in their lives. They often might not be aware of why they are having problems, or not be able to tie it to a specific experience. I think that labeling people has many pitfalls, including the fact that it's much harder to change what you are than learn to deal with a problem that you're having. It is also easy to say "Of course I'm sitting around being sad or running around being manic. I'm Bipolar, that's what we do!" Having said that, since this is not a mental health forum I'm going back to talking saxophones....... everyone have a happy day! :compress:

[Dave Collins]

I can't help but feel a bit offended and talked down to. Like I said, labels aren't the fix to every problem, but a label can make treatment easier for people who do have a chemical imbalance. Not saying that it's OK to sit arround, though.Treating nausea with Pepto is fine unless the person's got cancer, it's best to know. Commercials are fine, but I'm speaking from a lifetime of experience with a disease. I have plenty externally going for me, but it's the internal that needed addressing for me. I'm really not trying to start arguments, but I know how I felt when someone told me to get over it. It's a really easy thing to tell someone when you have no concept of how they feel. It is definitely a possibility that situational sadness brings about a chemical imbalance, but it's important to address the other side. There is an great amount of psychological evidence backing depression as a cause. It's not quite a chicken or the egg situation. Like I said before, there's a difference. I'm just asking for some consideration and sensitivity for a condition that seems to get a displeased nod from most of the population. Just be careful. There's a diffence in saying "i don't really feel where you're coming from" and saying "yeah, okay. all you need to do is get over it. that's what i do."

[Joe Jazz]

Dave-

No offense meant. We must all deal with our situations in the way we think best. Nothing wrong with expressing different opinions, as there are at least two ways of looking at everything. Have a nice weekend. :)

[jazzbluescat]

I just got over a fairly serious bout of clinical depression that I've had for the past 10 or so years. I knew something was wrong, was tested and the pros said I was clinically depressed. I had therapy and did Paxil, etc for four years, didn't do any good. Then I had a profound realization, that seemed "normal" at the time. I realized, by and for myself, that I was beating-up on myself; and, that I was in a "couldn't see the forest for the trees" situation.
Anyhow, "quiting" being depressed was a lot like the way I quit smoking. Just told myself that I'll always have the/a habit, asked "why actually smoke? It ain't good for me; so stop it." And, I did. I may still be depressed, but, I can handle it. Now I'm busy sorting through the mess and residue without the accompanying denial.

[jazzbluescat]

whoops

[Joe Jazz]

I didn't know people in North Carolina got depressed...must just be Ashville that's immune.... :lol: What was the whoops for?

[jazzbluescat]

I didn't know people in North Carolina got depressed...must just be Ashville that's immune.... :lol: What was the whoops for?

I hit the "quote" button instead of the "edit." [Dern new-fangled machines.... Now I'm depressed. :roll: ]

BTW, Joe, you checked your gender lately? :)

[Joe Jazz]

Yeah, but I didn't want to list it as I like to keep em guessing.....gotta be the hair! :rr:

[Joe Jazz]

Plus I hate getting hit on by all those depressed female or gay sax players.........

[paulwl]

Hey all. Depression lives in this house too. Been off and on, hot and cold, lately. Haven't wanted to post a lot the past week or 2 as I'm realizing what a mixed blessing is the internet. Keeps you informed and entertained, but it also keeps you at home tap tapping on a keyboard when you could be out taking the small chances and calculated risks that give life its mystery and wonder.

Me, I've come to the point where I realize much of my depressive behavior (including the neverending tap tapping) is just a habit, instilled by beliefs I no longer believe. Only the structures remain standing.

I've been seeing a therapist of the Rational-Emotive school, a behaviorist methodology. She's helpful in exposing the thought-tricks and useless ideas I hold onto. She happens to think I suffer from Asperger's syndrome, which I had suspected for years but not paid much attention to. It's basically a failure to "get it" where other ppl & social interactions are concerned, and a tendency to have superficial fetishes instead of deep intellectual interests. The appearance of things entices and sooths, the nature of things confuses and repels. I like saying "I have *** burgers," and making ppl wonder what the hell I mean.

Had a great gig tonight with some primo players, both gentlemen. We talked about life. It was real. I think depressives need to seek that kind of interaction out. It's great when it finds you, but I need to go find it and not wait. (When filling out forms I sometimes put "occupation: waiter".)

Depressives often feel they are losers. This is unhelpful. Maybe there aren't any losers, just winners-to-be.

[saxysai]

Dave,

If you watch the Zoloft commercials you'll notice they say that depression MAY be caused by a chemical imbalance and that taking Zoloft may help. They really don't know for a fact which comes first, the chicken or the egg. Do people feel badly because of a chemical imbalance, or do they have a chemical imbalance because they feel badly? They really don't know. In my experience people having problems with depression are usually either having difficulty coping with a past event(or events) or are struggling with a lack of meaning in their lives. They often might not be aware of why they are having problems, or not be able to tie it to a specific experience. I think that labeling people has many pitfalls, including the fact that it's much harder to change what you are than learn to deal with a problem that you're having. It is also easy to say "Of course I'm sitting around being sad or running around being manic. I'm Bipolar, that's what we do!" Having said that, since this is not a mental health forum I'm going back to talking saxophones....... everyone have a happy day! :compress:

Um...how offensive. Yeah maybe some people don't try to take care of themselves but mental illnesses are just as real as any other ailment.

I am bipolar. I have been for most of my life. It is something I have struggled with greatly and only recently found a treatment that is helping. It isn't something I can help. I believe with all my heart that I have an imbalance, just as real as a diabetic has an imbalance with their insulin. I can see a DEFINATE difference the times I forget to take my medicine.

Being bipolar is a LOT more than just alternating being happy and sad. THere's the oversensitivity it causes; the lack of judgement; the fuzzy thinking; the racing thoughts; the overwhelming anger; it goes a lot more in depth than just sad and happy. It's something very trying to deal with and it's even more so for those around us.

I don't sit around and blame everything on my disorder. I DO feel it is greatly affected my life.

[Joe Jazz]

Some parents of children diagnosed with ADHD get offended when it's suggested that changing their parenting style might help with their problems, "it's not our fault, it's the disease"......some alcoholics get offended when you suggest that their having "a disease" doesn't mean there's nothing they can do about it.....some people diagnosed with mental illness get offended when you suggest they get out of bed and do something about it....

Neither you nor the previously offended poster sound like someone who hasn't done something about their problem. If you spent a little less time being offended over statements where no offense was intended, perhaps you might find life a little more fun. Unless of course you find any opinion different than yours to be offensive, in which case I bet you spend A LOT of time being offended....... pardon me if I don't lose any sleep over it..... :albino:

[jazzbluescat]

....
Neither you nor the previously offended poster sound like someone who hasn't done something about their problem. If you spent a little less time being offended over statements where no offense was intended, perhaps you might find life a little more fun. Unless of course you find any opinion different than yours to be offensive, in which case I bet you spend A LOT of time being offended....... pardon me if I don't lose any sleep over it..... :albino:

Joe, I don't find your posts offensive. But, I can understand how depressives can (find it offensive). Because sometimes ones' mind can be in such an unreasonable place at the moment, that it creates a sorta black hole or crack that they fall into and start applying preconceived ideas to the present, causing two totally different meanings to collide. However, and forgive me if I'm out of place, but, the above quote was a bit harsh, or didn't need to be said by you or anybody else, IMHO. As you said this is not a mental health forum. Giving reasonable advice/opinions one minute, then making the above statement could be interpreted as a setup, then a slap in the face, not fun for anybody.....Just the way I see it coming from depression and recovery, still recovering. SOTW is a kinda shelter/haven for us to talk shop, seek advice and sometimes even sympathy from a harsh, cold and cruel world.
Be gentle.

Peace

[Sigmund451]

I would just like to point out an issue. People are not "depressives". Depression is a verb, not an adjetive. To consider it anything else makes it a life sentence. The diagnosis becomes vastly empowered while the importance of the person becomes minimized. Language and description of conditions and/or states of being are critical in understanding ones relationship with it/them.

[Nefertiti]

I understand what your trying to communicate Sigmund......but isn't depression a noun and depressed an adjective? When I say"I'm depressed" it's an adjective describing my state of mind.It's not so much something I'm causing to happen(although there are tendencies and thought patterns that don't help the situation) The word Depressive as a noun is someone who is psychologically depressed. Of course that definition is from 1937 according to my dictionary so that says something right there. I'm not sure I understand where you're getting the verb thing from?

[Sigmund451]

An excellent writer and therapist once demanded that all of his patients use the term in its verb form. Instead of "I am depressed" (suggesting that some uncontrolable force is being exerpted upon a person) that they state "I am depressing" (taking repsonsibility for being involved in the act of depressing...implying that the person is engaged in a base set of behaviors be they physical or internally verbal that lead to this feeling state).

Doing this it empowers the individual to choose a set of behaviors that do not lead to the emotive experience we call depression. If your interested the man was Glasser, the book: Take Effective Control of Your Life.

[jazzbluescat]

Are we all too depressed to talk about depression? Depression is a depressing subject, or is it a verb(?). :D Is everybody cured? :yikes!:

:)

[Shelonius]

I guess if you're not chronically depressed, or bi polar, or add, adhd, acoa,
insert acronym of choice here, it's really difficult to understand someone who is. Some things in life really are depressing, and completely suck, but doesn't it help just to give yourself time to get over it? Or are there really people who just can't get over whatever it is that's bugging them so much? I know a dude who would be an absolutely interstellar jazz giutarist. But the cat is so whacked and crazy that he can't get it together. He admits to Bi Polar and Depression issues. But then he hides behind this in order to make sure he accomplishes nothing. He uses it as an excuse to make people feel sorry for him, he figures it'll get him chicks, I guess. Until he freaks out and scares them away. And this guy is stoned from the minute he wakes up until he crashes. People have stopped taking him seriously because he smokes so much pot. I won't deal with the guy at all for other reasons. But it's sad to see talent wasted. Yeah, he fully admits he has a problem. But he's using it to get what he thinks he wants with it.
He also adamantly refuses to get any help. He won't read books about it, or look up possible solutions online. As I said before, this guy's no friend of mine, so it won't be me making any suggestions. It's just a waste, that's all. And it makes me mad to see this guy using his problems to try to get over and gank special treatment when other people are busting their butts trying to get it going in this business. Not that everyone who has depression is doing that, don't get me wrong.

[jd]

just a follow up to my ordeal . well, today was my anniversary. it isnt going to be celebrated . we are signing a dissalusionment and im not depressed anymore at all. if fact im loving the single life and have been having a great time since the wife and i split. amazing! ive been on zoloft and zanax for 4 or 5 months and now im weeniing myself off zanax. the anger is diminishing. ive been leading the wildest life any 45 year old dude could possibly live. traveled to play in nashville and alabama this week for some really nice gigs. going out with 5 different women . some freaky ones out there! im having the time of my life and dont miss the controlling domineering shrew i thought i was in love with... ive been praying and listening to gospel music ,working out,playing gigs, hooking up with some women that actually like jazz/rb and think that the sax is "cool" .anyways im coming out of the depression big time and want to thank my sax bros out there for giving me encouragement and helping me through this horrifying ordeal. im praying that things keep going my way and thanking God for giving me the strength to deal with lifes "curveballs". all the best jd

[Mike Cesati]

This is the best news I read today other than the Red Sox won :D . It's always good to hear someone beating depression. It robs us of alot of the good things in life.I'm glad your prayers are working JD. Take care

[jd]

thanks bro! go sox!

[jazzbluescat]

This is the best news I read today other than the Red Sox won :D . It's always good to hear someone beating depression. It robs us of alot of the good things in life.I'm glad your prayers are working JD. Take care

Ditto, jd. Maybe the Sox brought you good luck. Now watch out for male menopause. :twisted: :lol:

[Mark5047]

JD

Very cool what has been going on for you - I just got caught up on this thread. Initially the topic didnt sound all that interesting, but there really was a lot here once I took the time to read it. Glad to hear you are doing so good. I think you stumbled onto something significant - belief in a higher power. Man, it would suck for me if we were all we had!


PS -
I am glad the sox won, but not because I am a Boston fan - but MAN am I tired of them friggin Yankees. Turned baseball into too much of a business, but thats a whole different thread, isn't it

[Joe Jazz]

JD-

You wild man! Great to hear some positive news for a change! Just make sure you keep the ladies' names straight! :cheers:

[sax_girl]

when you play music you forget about being sad or depressed you get into it and let your heart out the feeling lasts only while you play, but when you stop all your problems drain back into your life, and everything comes back, i think thats where some musicians get there inspiration, there feelings, and there sadness

[jazzbluescat]

My depression never allowed me to be successful at anything, so to speak. It took on a life of it's own, everything I did was a crap shoot, sometimes I'd play fine, other times I'd be frozen and couldn't think. The same way with day jobs and dealing with people, very unpredictable and out of control. [I'm sure there were/are other issues and mitigating circumstances that came into play with my depression.]

The odd thing is I seem to be the same person now (as during depression), yet something's changed. I don't know exactly what or how, nor understand it. But, at least now I know there is a way out (actually a continuum). It's like, I could fall back or fall in a crack of depression, but, no mind, that's life: a roller coaster ride, I won't get lost in it.

[jd]

thanks joe and everyone else. well i saw the ex yesterday and lost my temper again. damn, im trying to control it but sometimes its hard. i had to eat 2 zanax and 2 glasses of zinfidel and smoke a little cronic to calm down and go to sleep before i did anything stupid. what a night mare!
well i joined an internet date club and found out that women with kids in their 40s are everywhere. they all seem to be looking.i got so many responses i had to remove my add! i would have never dreamed this kind of lifestyle would happen to me. just dating and trying to steer clear of the controlling types. hopefully ill sign the papers this week and put an end to this nightmare. meanwhile im hitting at women at my gigs . all of a sudden gigs are way more exciting when i meet new women. im playing out in boston next month and am enjoying my new found freedom/ the ex used to roll her eyes at me when i told her i want to put out another sax cd. last one was 4 years ago but now im arrangeing to do another one. who cares if it doesnt sell. thats what God wants me to do. i cant explain my obseession with that "bent piece of brass" other than to think that sax was my calling. if any of you cats come to the cleveland ohio area look me up. we will party!!! all the best jd

[paulwl]

I often find that taking steps against depression involves a willingness to go lower in the hopes you can rise again. To let go and take a chance and do something that, if not successful, may backfire on you and make you more miserable...but if successful, will really give you a sense of power and possibility.

Most of the time you will succeed, but learning that lesson is not quickly done. There's the tendency to downplay your success, and forget instead of learning from it. There's also the difficulty of pushing yourself towards something fearful - it goes against the feelings of comfort and self-care we find refuge in day to day.

I think a lot of depression is being fearful of getting more depressed. Ironically, if we were more open to our feelings of despair and hopelessness, we might just try more things and get the reinforcement of success.

Somebody tell me I'm not just talking gibberish here... :?

jd: What about single women in their 40s without kids? Or are most of them just too screwed up for words?

[Joe Jazz]

jd-

You're scaring me bro! You're starting to sound like the preacher's daughter! Ok, so I might be a little jealous........let me know where I can buy your new smooth jazz CD! :D

[Mark5047]

jd -

You play at Cerino's? How cool - it's one of my wife's favorite places to eat. Gonna have to make a point to come out and see you (I live in Medina)
I am guessing you play at Under C's????

[jd]

paul ,thanks . thoughtful post. not gibberish at all. i appreciate it. yea mark . im playing fri and sat the 29th and 30th at carrie cerrinos. the food is great and im going in there with my all occasion band the bottomline .7 piece band that rocks.couple of awesome soul singers! come on out . bring your sax if you want to sit in.joe . my band is recording a cd now but the smooth jazz originals cd is next.when i get it done this guy is going to bbuild me a website and im going to try and promote it a little. what have i got to lose? my friends on sotw will get one for free in appreciation for all the free "counseling". who would have thought i could have all this help from people i never met. but musicians are the best people out there!! especially sax players! thanks cats!

[Joe Jazz]

The sky's the limit! :)

[jd]

well my lawyer just called me. im signing papers at 3.00 . i was feeling a little sad but one of my students told me to go out and celebrate. this could be a happy day for you. im going to take his advice.all i have left to do is refinace my house and the beat goes on. im hangin in there

[Bill Mecca]

Man, jd, what you are feeling takes me back a bit, about 15 years. In the space of about 6 months time I lost my TV job and a then got the divorce papers in the mail. I had landed a radio news gig in the meantime and had moved back to my home state.

What a freakin year that was... but in retrospect it was the best thing that ever happened. I met a wonderful woman thru a co-worker at the radio station, and we now have 4 lovely kids (well most of the time they are lovely.... he he he kids will be kids).

I remember one day during that year, I had been feeling especially down, but I read something, unfortunately I cannot remember where or who wrote it, but basically it said to think of the worst possible scenario (at the time I had hopes of reconciliation) and come to grips with that. So there I sat, and figured what's the worst that could happen? the divorce could be final and I would never see her again. Was that gonna kill me? no. could I recover from that... Damn straight I could. From that day forward it felt like a huge weight have been lifted off my shoulders.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if things had turned out differently. But I know one thing, I wouldn't want it any other way.

Enjoy yourself man, and blow a big honking Bb for me. ;-)

[jd]

thanks bill. well im finding out that i like single life. blow the horn when i want. im building a home studio and im gonna finally get that big screen tv with surround sound that i alwasys wanted. no more...."i can hear the tv fine" crap. its on with the home theater. the kids will love seeing sponge bob on a 62 inch screen. yea ..i have my priorities straight!
ill be signing the papers this week and im not sad about it. it will be a blessing . i hope... im sure! im getting more "booty" than a rental car (.way more action than when i was faithfully married to the ice queen.)i could get used to this life style. no announcements.. like "im going to the store do you need anything?" or "im going to the bathroom now" you know... all those anouncements.
anyways im getting back into playing the sax .im going out and listening to bands. so much fun. well... time to take my "crazy" pills . thanks so much for all your encouragement throughout my ordeal. ill never forget you guys for helping me. i owe you!!

[jd]

well... i hustled my ***** off and got the $$ to refinace strong at a good rate.paid the old lady off with a big check so she can buy another house. set up the kids with a college fund .bought my kids great hannukah gifts and we are headed to court for the final hearing on jan 6th.done deal. now every time i talk to her she cries "it seems like her boyfriend(walmart boy)has run for the hills now that she is going to be single. he just wanted to hit it and quit it. didnt want to actually buy it. and she just brought me home made chicken parm to my house . weird!! i ate it though...
you guys might like my final step of "closure" .i took a 14 karat bracelet and wedding band with diamonds that she gave me to the jeweler and told him to melt it down and and then showed him a superbowl ring and said copy this and put my name on it and put a gold sax "mark 6 alto replica pin"over the diamonds. it will be ready in late jan . that will be my new wedding ring.i have decided to marry my selmers for now!they have been there for me for 30 years.longer than any women! the only constant in my life. ill post pics of my new "wedding" ring if any one wants to see it. i heard a comedian say that when his ex wife died he put her ashes in a joint and rolled her up and smoked her. said it was the best she ever made him feel. i can relate!! :twisted:

[tbone]

i have decided to marry my selmers for now!they have been there for me for 30 years.longer than any women!

Careful jd, After they say I DO, THEY DON"T ANYMORE! :shock: :roll: :?

[jd]

you got that right TBONE!!!

[Joe Jazz]

jd, my buddy! Just be careful with the chicken parm! The X will probably be coming around and saying how wrong she was to let you go. She will even try and entice you back by getting all kissy-huggy and offering to sleep with you! Don't fall for it! She will try and get you to remember the good times(how long ago was that!), but keep thinking about all the bad times, and be strong! Good idea about the ring and marrying your saxes! :D

[newking70]

n/a

[Greyduster]

I have suffered occasional bouts of depression all my life. When I was married I actually thought I was going mad but that's another story. When I was in my late twenties/early thirties it struck me that these bouts always passed (I know this isn't the same for everyone).

I developed this thought to hang on to on the journey through the deep dark tunnel. that I was actually like a caterpillar in a crysalis going through a metamorphosis and that soon I would emerge as an even more beautiful butterfly.

Having just seen that actually written down it sounds twee and I was going to erase the post but it's true. If the idea helps one person just a little then it was worth the self disclosure.

Hang in there butterflies....................

and keep honking

[Face Ache Mike]

Grey and cloudy fills my mind,
sunshine fading from behind
The weights of strain are holding down
the hanging frame and worried frown.
Nothing will and nothing won`t,
makes no change if I do or if I dont.
Time passes by and leaves me cold,
all I get is growing old.
You look at me with sparkling eyes
youre so full of hows and whys.
High and low and low and high
I scream, I laugh, I dance, I cry.
Just leave me here I`ll be ok
to moog away another day.


Thats about it for me. Sometimes life and soul of a party, sometimes my own personal dirge. I know it comes and goes so I just hang in there. Its opened my eyes to see how many others go through this.


Take care,
Mike.

[sopsax]

Face Ache: Cycles of severe depression alternating with periods of intense liveliness and even euphoria... been there, done that. It's a treatable condition -- you don't have to wait helplessly for the next emotional wave to crest. May I be so bold as to suggest that you consider seeing a physician and getting a referral to a mental health professional experienced in mood disorders. Therapy may or may not be useful; sometimes the solution is pharmaceutical. It is humbling yet liberating to learn that one's semi-debilitating quirks may be caused by nothing more than a slight imbalance in brain chemistry. Knowledge is power. Meds can help too. Good luck.

[Face Ache Mike]

Sopsax, Thanks for the heads up. Ive had counselling and meds on and off for years but didnt feel it helped long term. My feelings were that the treatment was reminding of my depression rather than lifting me out of it or calming the waves. My best way of coping was busying mysef with hobbies etc which really were just a distraction. I will take your advice though and see what help is available now as its been a while since I last enquired.

My condition has improved, I think, just with age. The highs and lows arent the steep peaks and troughs they used to be, more like valleys and dales now.

[Sigmund451]

Mike, if I may ask...and it doesnt require an answer, just a thought. If all you have been on is antidepressants and little impact perhaps a mood stabalizer is more in order...unless you have been down that road too. Sorry, cant leave the trade behind....despite the fact Im now an unemployed counselor.

[Face Ache Mike]

Sigmund, ask away, Ive nothing to hide. I was on Prozac twice and maybe something else I cant remember the name of. Had two counsellors and "enjoyed" the chats but didnt feel any long term, lasting benefits.

The thing is with getting help, when I`m feeling good I see no reason, I just enjoy life and forget the moods. When Im down, man, Im down and sometimes dont know or care what day it is. My sleep pattern is one of the worst things and doesnt change no matter what mood Im in. You may have noticed a lot of my posts are done 2-3am.

I am working on the sleep thing. Im forcing myself to be up and about by midday at the very latest. Thats the one thing that bothers me. The thing that bothers everyone around me, especially my wife, is never knowing what mood I`m in. She stays well clear - great for sax practice but bad for relationship. Have to say, the sax was my own idea of therapy and it is working.

Sorry to hijack this thread!

[Sigmund451]

I would consider two things were I in your shoes. First, meds have come a long way since prozac. Second, if you have good insurance seek out the best psychiatriac care you can find....a family doc doesnt always get the job done. Third, there are only a few good counselors out there, its not a waste to find one that is more than just "interesting". A good counselor will challenge your preconceptions and you way of operating. If they are just interesting your wasting your time and money. You can find interesting conversation elsewhere. Its my profession and my peers frighten me! You will have to shop hard.

If you want a good read on depression check out David Burns Feeling Good. It has some useful tools towards self help that actually can help if applied. BTW, I generally hate self help books but this one is legit. Best of luck.

[Face Ache Mike]

I have to admit, this isnt so much of a problem now as it has been but maybe only because my lifestyle has changed so much. I dont work - for now I dont need to, my children have grown up so dont depend on me and my wife is out and about a lot more than she used to be. Maybe thats another reason I havent done anything about it.

The book looks interesting, I`ll look into it thanks. I dont have insurance (not such a common thing in UK as US) so I have to rely on counselors the family doc refers me to. I dont like to burden the already overworked health system with my relatively petty problem (err am I sounding like a depressed person? hehe).

Where was that person offering the kick up the rear? 8)

If you ever fancy a chat feel free to use that MSN button down there.

[Old Charlie]

Face Ache,

I see by your posts that you have had some success by gettin into your hobbies and into your playing. I would like to suggest something that has worked for me that may help in addition to counselling.

I also suffered from (mild) depression, but some days it would send me to bed for 24 hours straight or more.

One morning I was laid off and wanted to go home, lock the door, close the blinds, lock myself in the bedroom and hide under the covers until I felt better. But I had made a commitment to help a friend clean her back yard (jungle). I told myself "I don't care how you feel, you made a promise. Now go!" And I went. By the end of the day I felt a lot better.

I have found that working with someone else more needy than myself really does help. Also looking at what I can do instead of focusing on what I can't do makes a difference.

Chuck

[Face Ache Mike]

Seems Ive turned this into a "help face ache sort himself out" thread - wasnt my intention! :oops: Thanks to everyone for giving me the time of day 8-)

Chuck,

Thanks, I see where youre pointing. I know exactly where youre coming from with the 24 hour bed stints etc that was me.

I have absolutely loads of jobs I could do - lots of enjoyable ones too. I work part time (about once a fortnight for about 5 hours) which was meant to be voluntary but they ended up paying me :roll: Crikey, I hadnt thought of it this way. My life now is too kind to me. Would you believe Ive had £000`s to spend on whatever I wanted and chose to stay in bed all day instead? I dont spend so much time sleeping now but the rest is pretty much the same........

Ive had enormous highs (never drug induced I hasten to add) and equally deep lows... Ive pushed myself to achieve amazing personal goals in efforts to heave myself out of the quagmire. I have a very comfortable lifestyle and many good friends - maybe as a result, I dont know - I wouldnt presume to say for certain. I just dont feel adrenalin any more. Its like Ive got accustomed to it and need a bigger "fix" every time or it has no effect.

I feel a little guilty now. I know there are people with depression as a result of some tragedy or extreme difficulty in their lives. Just goes to prove depression is not about being sad or stressed, though the roots of my depression may lie there.

I talk too much. :roll:

[Sigmund451]

Your fine Mike, you havent imposed on the thread. BTW, your description sounds more like bipolartype of condition rather than simply depression....thus the thought in my first post. If your highs are too high...euphoria etc...an antidepressant would not solve the problem...it could worsen it. I dont want to diagnose on line. I would suggest that if these symptoms are present it is worth looking into further. Life ain't got to be a roller coaster.

[Face Ache Mike]

Thanks Sigmund. Rollercoaster - bang on. Youre a great bunch of people here - appreciate ever word 8-)

[DooDaa]

Wow! This thread is something that really hits me close to home. I'm on a drug called "effexor xr" and it does help me "feel" better. I recently returned to the saxophone as a means of helping me defeat my depression. It brings some joy to my life.

Wife cheated on me, I lost my job because I told the boss to stick it. Now I'm broke, and all I want to do is sleep most of the time. I don't feel like I am a lazy person, because when I am feeling well, I'm one of the most active people you'll ever see. When I rest, I feel like I am trying to "heal" from whatever has knocked me down. I'm on a downward spiral right now, but I believe in myself, and I think I'll soon be back on my feet long enough to get another job and return to a normal life. How long that will last, is another question.

I wish I knew what was wrong with me, and I wish I knew how to fix it. It feels soooooo good when I am up and running properly.

[Old Charlie]

Wow! This thread is something that really hits me close to home. I'm on a drug called "effexor xr" and it does help me "feel" better. I recently returned to the saxophone as a means of helping me defeat my depression. It brings some joy to my life.

I wish I knew what was wrong with me, and I wish I knew how to fix it. It feels soooooo good when I am up and running properly.
Hang in there and keep doing the things that help you feel better. As they say in my recovery group about the present situation, "This too shall pass." :D

And remember, the things that strike a chord with you when you read them? Those are the things that you need to focus and work on. Sometimes it's not easy, but it's rewarding when you are done.

Chuck

[Face Ache Mike]

I`ll be seeing my doc today. I`ll tell him Sigmund sent me, maybe I`ll get a different kind of psychiatric help? ;)

Hey Doodaa - welcome aboard :)

[Sigmund451]

Keep us posted Mike. Id be curious to hear what he has to say about your mood swings....that is if your willing to aire it in public. Glad your not giving up on getting help with this.

[Face Ache Mike]

Right, I did mention Id been "speaking" to someone that prompted me to see him. He said medication may not be appropriate for me as its used more for people that need help to lift to the level where counselling would then take over. He reckons I am at the stage where I only need counselling. He looked through my record and what the previous counsellor had written and agreed that cognitive therapy would be most suitable, in fact, the previous counsellor had put that in the notes.

So, Ive been referred for more counselling and I expect to hear something in the next 2-3 weeks. He said if I feel I need some help in the meantime there is medication availalable. Im not keen to go that route so I`ll be happy in the knowledge that help is on the way.

By the way, Ive had a cracking day today so Im on a high :)

[Sigmund451]

The cognitive route can be very good if you work it hard and listen very carefully to yourself. Your likely to find that you've been laying out land mines for yourself unconsciously. Glad your day is going well.

[Face Ache Mike]

:) Looking forward to it. Im really going to make a go of it this time. I also ordered that book from the shop.

Superb day, despite working outside for 5 hours in the cold and rain.

[Tryptykon]

Hey, it's been a month or two since the ex brought jd the chicken parm..
Did he cave in and reconcile ? :lol: :lol:

[Face Ache Mike]

Poor JD hehe ;) He should make sure he has a few of his lady friends visit when the ex calls round 8-) That should get the message across ;)

[jd]

no reconciliation!sometimes i miss my ex wife..... then i reload! im ok fellas... i did stop being a "playa"and hooked up with just 1 women. im having a blast! she is compatable with me.shes good looking and sweet to be with. so far... she comes to my gigs and stays till the end. then cooks for me and wants to make love all the time(morning noon and night) ive taken an unhealthy amount of ****** to keep up with her..not that im complaining.. i never had it so good. joe . you were right. the ex did me a favor.anyways im just enjoying myself and havnt had time to check in with my "sax theurapists" here on sotw. you guys are the best . i guess this is what a good relationship is supposed to be like. my marriage was like those country songs."i dont know what love is but i know what it aint" or "she was acting single and i was drinking doubles" " hello walls" etc... anyway i thank you guys for worrying about me. sax players are the best!! im not going to be eating anything the ex makes me anymore... i guess my kids told her i have a girlfriend and the ex seems more irratable and miserable then usual... hey what goes around.........

[jazzbluescat]

...or, "She Got The Goldmine, I Got The Shaft."

[jd]

well i have some pics of my new wedding ring. let me know what you cats think. it contains my original wedding ring/diamonds and a 14 k gold bracelet the ex had given me .i melted it all down and had a jeweler creat me a sax ring. one of a kind. click on mynewwedingring pics and also check out me with my new girlfriend nadine. shes awesome . let me know if this link works .oh.. by the way im going to the exs old church to do a st. patties day gig. more closure... thanks cats!

http://www.msnusers.com/1sgidgqvf6irmhahufukfl34s4/documents.msnw?fc_a=0&fc_p=%2FPictures

[Timmy_G]

I totally agree that depression comes easy with being a musician.
In the last week of my schooling (november 2004) I lost 8 kilos in 3 days and even now i can't put weight back on (i'm 54 kilograms, ishould be 65-70 kilos).
It was because I wanted (and still do) want to be a professional musician, but i know that it's gong to take me another ten to 15 years before I will be able to do that. I am also very critical of my self, everything I do is never good enought.

Sometimes i will look in the mirror and say"your an idiot for wanting to stay with music" but i know i wouldn't be happy with anything else.

I'm hoping that once a get a better job (I currently work at a discount store) i will be happier.

[cleger]

Timmy,

This is difficult because all I know of you is what I read in your post. But, what I am seeing is that you think if certain goals are reached you will then be able to be happy. I lived like that for years and the big crisis came when I actually reached one of these goals that was supposed to make me happy (in my case it was getting the job that was supposed to make me a somebody), but I was still the same. The world didn't change. I almost lost myself over that, became suicidal. Since then, what I have found is you have to live for the journey not the destination. That is how I am viewing my music (such as it is), my career, my relationships and my life. It works.

Live for today man, you won't get it back.

Sorry if this sounds preachy, but your post sounded a little too close to my experience not to comment.

[Jon B. Bop]

Timmy,
I agree with Cleger.
A young man of your age who is struggling to maintain his weight, and questioning his place in life is dealing with something other then being a musician.

Depression is an illness that effects people of all ages and walks of life. It is not brought on by ones career choice. You might hate your career, but still be a generally happy person.

I strongly suggest you talk to a mental health professional. With the treatments available today, there is no reason to suffer.

You deserve to happy in your pursuit of your goals, even if that goal is to be a musician.

[cleger]

exactly Jon, I meant to say talk to a professional I guess it didn't get into my message.

[Timmy_G]

Thanks for your advice.

I sometimes fell that if i don't reach my goals i won't find anything in me to be happy with, or other people will think i'm a washout.

But that reply was great, Thankyou

[Vortex]

I get depressed alot. I pray and leave it in God's hands.

Amen. Know what I'm dealing with now? Being really hurt by love of my life (issue reconciled but still stinging), the loss of a very promising career, the death of my beloved dog Cheyanne, a day-job I despise with hours that are even worse, and a future that seems hanging by a thread, not to mention day-to-day stress and the madness that a creative drive instills (right now I'm under stylistic reform).

Am I depressed? Yes, considerably. Have I been eating much or sleeping well? Not really. Have I been playing as much sax as I normally would? No, new age, symphonic works, and textural guitar have been all over my mp3 player lately, and I haven't been playing a whole lot. I'm pouring out the anguish into my playing and recording it for others to hear. What am I gonna do? Realize it's in my mind and I can make things better. View myself from a split subjectivity, acting out life as a dance - allow myself to go through the sad process but know that there is a greater hold on things, and no matter how I feel everything is gonna be alright.

[ThomasK]

We should distinguish between two kinds of depression.

One is what we might call "cosmic depression" -- the depression that comes from realizing the ultimate hopelessness and absurdity of the human plight -- that is, the sense that we, to paraphrase Heidegger, have been thrown here without explanation, the knowledge that this "explanation" is comprehensible and that we are mere animals desperately seeking meaning and love in order to try to escape the inevitable leveler: death. This kind of depression is good (since it gives us a sober look at our predicament and the grotesque spectacles of the quotidian man), but few can handle it enough to cultivate it.


The other kind of depression is when the things of this world weigh down on us. Girly left, worky gone, burly gets your girly. It is good in that it allows one to see one's problems (and not bet an quixotic, people loving zombie), but it becomes bad when it becomes debilitating (i.e., when one can't get anything done, etc.).


"Proper" brain chemistry depends on who you ask. If one can't adjust to his or her depression and learn to cope, pills are often one's best bet. For some of us, and for some of the GREATS like Schopenhauer and Wittgenstein, suicide is a comforting thought, but for those who think that they might actually commit it for such a petty thing like a woman leaving them, GET HELP!

[Vortex]

Well I don't wanna turn this into something I should send to www.samaritans.org, but things have taken a turn for the worse - love of my life has indeed left me for one of my buddies, and some salt has been poured into my wounds. Let's just say he'd best not show up anywhere I play. I'm playing more sax as well, mostly classical, with the aide of my new hose clamp ligature. Also, I just lost my pizza shop job tonight, but as far as that goes, the evil is 6 in one basket and a half dozen in the other. It's still upsetting, but nothing a $5 bottle of vodka can't cure! If nothing else, it'll grant the gift of sleep, and it's not like there won't be headaches in the morning anyway (I recently lost the Navy Band job because of migraines). I'm in an excessively amused state right now; I feel as if I'm talking into the mic as an act at a comedy club, and the moment I step off the stage yunz are gonna start throwing your dirty, wadded up napkins at me that yunz had your martinis sitting on. Ya know, I feel like I'm living just waiting to die (no worries mates, nothing suicidal here, just a crazy nihilist). God bless, all.

aah! that napkin hit me in the mouth. ick, bourbon!

[jazzbluescat]

.......... but nothing a $5 bottle of vodka can't cure! If nothing else, it'll grant the gift of sleep, ...... .....

Aha, therein lies your problem. You need to acquire a taste for scotch. :D

Cheer up Vortex. Just remember, no matter how bad things get, they can always get worse. tsk [You seem to have discovered this.] Walk on the sunnyside of the street and all that..stuff. :)

[retromom]

Ya know, I feel like I'm living just waiting to die (no worries mates, nothing suicidal here, just a crazy nihilist). God bless, all.

aah! that napkin hit me in the mouth. ick, bourbon!

It's going to be ok Vortex, you certainly have been dealt a bad hand lately :cry: The loss of the girlfriend to a buddy says a lot about who she is so it's better to see that now rather than later {I realize that thought doesn't ease the pain or lonliness but it will get better}
Your dealing with deception from not just one person but two and that has to be hard to deal with but the resolution will come, it just takes time.. As far as the Navy Band- that's really too bad too but the most important issue is your health and finding a way to ease those Headaches.....
Is there a possibility of going back into the Navy if you can get a medication that stops your migraines when you feel them coming on?
Godspeed

[Vortex]

jazzbluescat, you are so right, in all regards. Really, I just flat out need to develop a *taste*, or more appropriately, recover it. Can't feel my tongue now... What were we talking about again?

Oh yes.. things are so much better today. That pizza shop can kick themselves to the road, I've started up the teaching gig; I will probably start giving lessons on Thursdays and Saturdays by next week. I'm teaching guitar (aaah! scream!), all saxes, clarinets, and flute at a store called The Melody Shop in West Mifflin, actually about a 20 second drive from Jim Guerra's place. They've got about 145 students, and are growing rapidly from the business they used to be (under new ownership). I'll probably be replacing Neil as a guitar teacher (I hear he's been ill) and supporting Tim who is the winds teacher (brass and woodwind) by concentrating on the woodwind aspect. If they expand enough to start a jazz segment, I'll head that. Here's their site http://www.15122.com/MelodyShop/ . Haven't got anything set for my rates yet, but most likely it'll be under $30 an hour, assuming Louise doesn't take some big cut of my rates lol. Consider me a functioning sad person, haha.

As for the Navy note, probably, but I'm an RE-4, which basically means I can never reenlist in any branch of the military, ever. I'd have to go to the congressional level to get it changed, and even then they rarely change RE-4's. That's why I'm pretty much planning on that *not* happening anytime in the near future.

[Chris S]

Vortex,

I feel your pain. I lost my job today (because of bad management), and a girl that I *thought* was interested in me (granted, it wasn't a long term girlfriend, though I've been down that road) suddenly falls of the face of the earth, no more conversations, just dissapeared. Maybe she should contact David Copperfield.

I guess it all boils down to this: $#*! happens. Gotta deal with it, because while there's a lot of it in the world, there's a lot of beauty. There are just some times that you have to look for it a little harder than before.

Best wishes and keep us posted,
Chris S

[Face Ache Mike]

Long time no talk guys and gals. I wonder how JD is doing now?

[TracerBullet]

I believe that the connection between music has to do with where it occurs. Where to you play jazz? In clubs and bars, sometimes in rough neighborhoods. Where else better to get a fix? The musician connection to drugs and alchohol is yet another corelation myth. Its merely coincidence that they both appear in the same places.

*edit*
heh sorry if this post is kinda random, I didnt realize there were multiple pages to the thread

[Face Ache Mike]

I`ve had a hell of a week. Seeing the doc tomorrow. Thought I was improving but a bad situation overwhelmed me on Friday morning and I still dont think Ive recovered from it. I think I sensed I was weakening when I posted on 3rd Oct.
What bothers me is that I cant fathom out any reason for it. Life is good - I just feel very low. Hopefully the doc will have some answers. I`ll ask for counselling again but try to cover specific issues this time.

[jsweenie]

the more talent you have, the more generally ****ed up you are gonna be.
True art generally doesn't come from happy people.

[Vortex]

the more talent you have, the more generally ****ed up you are gonna be.
True art generally doesn't come from happy people.

Can I get an Amen? BTW is your first name Jim, by any chance?

Update: I know this isn't the bass forum, but here's my mind - Lately I've been a total nutball on the bass guitar with the fusion thing, playing Donna Lee up to tempo, experimenting with (auto)wah, volume pedals, harmonizers, and other stuff you're not supposed to use :) . My right thumb has been beat senseless against the bridge in growls and the fingerboard is covered in Vaseline. Left hand has a lot of nicks and cuts from fast slides against those rotosound strings. Contemplating ripping the frets off and putting about 6 coats of lacquer on the neck cuz I love the sound of fretless (even though I'll sound like a second year violin student as far as intonation goes).

Life is still good.

[jsweenie]

its john, close though

[The Fish]

I'm not sure if this has been stated yet, as I don't really feel like reading through 9 pages of replies, but anyways,

I have had several boughts of deppression, and heres what my personal experience has been with it relating to music.

First off, it is important to note that mos of my deppression comes from my social seperation from most people. As deppresion usually drives me away from peolpe, this can be a downwards spiral. Not being in normal social encounters, the emtions that normal people seem to disperse in their everyday talks and interactions builds up this sort of ball of raw emotion inside of me. The only way it often seems that I can unleash this is through music.

It is my personal opinion that music is next to worthless if the artist has not put emotion, or a part of his or her self into their work. Like I tried to say earlier, deppresion acts as the source of the emotion and as the bridge of the emotion to the music. With this in mind, I will state that much of my best works and performances have been a direct cause of deppresion.

This being said, I do not beleive that many of the greatest musicians suffer from deppresion, but that many of they are some of the greatest musicians because they suffer from deppresion (not to say that you have to, of course).

I don't know if that made any sense at all, but thats just my personal account of deppresion and how it effects my music

[jimells]

I actually read through all pages!

For me personally, the cognitive behavioral therapy stuff is nonsense. I don't think of myself as a failure. After ten years of farming, I threw in the towel, not because I was a failure, or a bad farmer, but because I was crushed by the "discipline of the Market".

I don't think that I'm lazy or worthless even though I haven't worked much in the past few months. Of course I feel anxious when I can't work -- in this country, for most people, if they can't work, they are likely to end up living under a bridge.

I'm aware of my perfectionist tendencies. I have to remind myself that I can never sound as good as a recording because any mistakes or bad sounding notes are edited out.

I'm also suspicious of the idea that being wasted leads to wonderful music. For me, it takes total concentration to play, concentration that I find impossible in a chemically altered state of mind :drunken:

I've tried more different kind of antidepressants than I can shake a stick at. I'm extremely sensitive to them. They start working much faster than the doctors say to expect, but then after a while (sometimes shorter, sometimes longer) they cause exteme fatigue and headaches, and I know it's time to throw them out.

There's an aspect of depression that no one talks about. Many of the early posts in this thread (and that includes the CBT stuff) tend to blame the victim. There is no discussion here or anywhere I am aware of that talks about how sick our society is, and how that may affect us.

I believe that some individuals are very sensitive emotionally to that sickness, in the same way that people with sensitive lungs develop asthma and other lung diseases when exposed to high levels of pollution. As only one example, we live in the richest country in the world, we have virtually unlimited resources, but we allow thousands and thousands of people to live on the street. How do I feel about that? It makes me very angry, because I know it's not necessary, but the wealthy elite who control our economic and political system either don't care, or prefer to keep things this way.

Some people have described depression as "anger turned inward". I believe this describes me to a large extent. But no matter which medication I try, or how many therapists I talk to, the totally corrupt and barbaric institutions of our society are still there. Twelve step programs teach us to accept the things we can not change - but I refuse to accept that our system of everything for the wealthy and crumbs for the rest can't be changed. To paraphrase (I can't remember who): "While one man lives in chains, we are all in chains".

Sometimes I wish I could be as ignorant and accepting of the true nature of the US as my mother (who believes everything she sees on Fox News); life would certainly be a lot easier.

For me the worst aspect of depression are the physical manifestations such as extreme fatigue, disrupted sleep patterns, horrible nightmares, lack of concentration, and the headaches. When I turned wrenches for a living (umm, diesel equipment technician) it was hard to get through the day, but I managed to get up every morning and put in my 8 hours. Now that I'm working on computers again, if there's no concentration, there's no code. Fortunately I'm self-employed as a contractor, so when I can work, I can make a boatload of money in a hurry, then I see how far I can stretch a dollar when I can't work.

I'm no artist, I've never played for pay. I don't consider myself musically creative; I just play the music someone else wrote, and try to play in tune with the band (when I do, it sounds so nice :) ) It's a good diversion; when I'm playing, I'm not thinking about anything else. The physical aspects of playing helps keep me focused.

Practicing every day (or nearly every day) is really important to me. If I set down the axe for more than a few days, there's a chance I might not pick it up again, maybe for a year:(

Is there a connection between depression and musicians? Maybe. I wonder if the really good ones (not me) are more emotionally sensitive to their surroundings than other folks.

Well that's enough ranting for now. :Rant:

[Face Ache Mike]

Hmmm.. I wonder how Amy is doing now? and JD? and of course, everyone else :)

I have to say, since my last posting, I`ve had good success with medication. Sigmund, you must have been right, I take 10mg of Citalopram daily and it has helped me get a rein on my emotions. My sleep pattern is more in control and generally everything is better. I had a 6 month checkup a week ago and the Doc and I agreed to continue maintenance therapy with 6 month checkups.

An odd thing happened though. My counsellor quit! I only had 3 or 4 sessions with him, told him some of my "inner thoughts", then he went off sick, never to return.

[heath]

I'm coming into this late myself. I to would like to know how JD is doing.

The things he was experiencing is all too common these days.

One thing I'd be interested in is how he deals with his emotions when he encounters his ex wife. Does he still have emotions that well up inside him when she's around. Does it take anti-depressants and a little herb to settle down and forget the hurt. Sometimes out of sight out of mind, but in this case he's stuck with this lady in his life until the kids are grown and gone, and even then he will still bump into her, the bad feelings will come rushing back. I've always wondered if this can ever really be changed.

The thing that worried me about JD was that he was on AD drugs and at the same time was reporting that he was having the time of his life. Is this not a contradiction. Your happy and having fun, but you still need to pop those pills to keep the whole thing going.

The other problem was running out and getting himself another woman right off the bat. To me this is compensating for your lose. Trying to pour ourself into another person that quickly tends to be a way of creating a fantasy life, much like the fantasy that he was happily married.....or the fantasy that many grow up thinking that finding someone else and getting married will be permant bliss and an answer to all your problems. In these situations I think it's best to pull back a second, evaluate yourself and then move forward once you've straightened out some of the problems that are bound to cause more problems when you enter into another relationship. If you don't the whole vicious cycle continues and you end up back on the AD's, when the new love of you life is in bed with another guy.


As far as musiciains being a more depressed lot. I think this is true, but I think it's because they tend to have too much free time that isn't spent productivily. Lifestyles are often out of whack. They need to be more health concerned....ie workout/eat right/think right.

[mehek]

Concerns about the economy are justified. But to compare this to the Great Depression is blowing things way, way out of proportion. Comparisons to the Great Depression are possible only for those entirely unfamiliar with what happened in the Great Depression.
------------------------
Mehek

Alabama Drug Addiction (http://www.drugaddiction.net/alabama)

[milandro]

I want to leave my usual jocular ways which I usually display on the forum to talk about this.

I've read most of this topic. I just want to say that I have been there and I occasionally still am there and unfortunately relapse into depression (I have depressive thoughts to fight off everyday, years of therapy taught me to cope with it but I know that it is in no way over, therapy can only tell you the why's and you have to work out the how's to stay away from the downward spiral of thoughts following which is going to knock you down).


I just want to express my sympathy to all those who are fighting their battle and sincerely hope that none is losing it, music is a great healer to me and there have been times that it was the only thing to hang on.

[rabbit]

mehek,

Greetings and welcome!
May your intonation never falter. :)

I'm with milandro on the healing power of music.

I am deeply sympathetic to all who suffer.

Perhaps this is, for the good of some, the
right time to revive this thread. However,
notice that prior to today's posts this thread
lay dormant for nearly two years.

[johnbenny20]

when your in depression you need to consult to your personal Doctor.
If you you wanted to share your feelings with your friends As you wish you can do that also.And i love this forum giving a such type of health depression.
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johnbenny20

a place for Drug Treatment.

New Hampshire Drug Addiction (http://www.drugaddiction.net/new-hampshire)