Blk Nickel Sax

[DeMoKiLL]

Have you ever been the only one in your section with a black nickel saxophone doesnt it seem wierd?

[silverghost]

Well, that's an interesting question. It depends on a couple things--first and foremost if you're playing Second or First alto. It seems a little odd at first especially as a second, but after a while you don't care--its the sound that counts, not the look.

SG

[DeMoKiLL]

well I mean im in a BIG high school band we have about 180 members for the whole band and 25 are just in the saxophone section so I think im not going to buy this saxophone for that reason, I think ill go with a used yamaha custom or series III

[Stacey]

Or, if you like a Cannonball for whatever reason, but don't want to stand out because of the nickel finish, consider the "normal" lacquered brass instead. You'll probably save $100 or so that way, too.

Of course, none of this applies if you're looking at a specific used horn that happens to be black nickel - there's not much you can do about that!

[Manny]

I love the mellow look, The Matte finish that selmer offers has an elegent look that says "hey, I'm a little better then everyone else, but I'm not gonna blow my own horn about it :D "

of course that can be subjective...

I Think that my next sax is gonna be a black nickel cannonball tenor (the all black one) It looks really spooky on cannonball's website.

[KJ]

Manny,
you should see their new "Raven" finish.
It is something else. By far the best special finish sax I've ever seen.
I took one to a few gigs, and people in the audience/crowd (concerts AND wedding receptions) would come up to me and tell me that it looked great...

[Manny]

Wow, It looks awesome...

the only thing I dislike about the unique finishes is that people take one look at it and write it off as a monique...

[Stacey]

Manny,

I had someone at work look at my new Black Nickel Cannonball and ask me if it was going into a glass case, or if I was actually going to PLAY it! He was pretty blown away by it. When I told him it was to be played, of course, he looked at me as if I'd just told him I planned to drive my new Duesenberg to the office every day. Or something like that.

If Cannonball ever goes down the path of offering tiger print finishes (like LA Sax), I'll lose faith in them, but so far the choices look reasonably restrained.

[silverghost]

I Think that my next sax is gonna be a black nickel cannonball tenor (the all black one) It looks really spooky on cannonball's website.
It looks spooky in real life, too, man. Real spooky. Alto looks spooky to begin with, Tenor is just unbelieveable.

[Manny]

"and our next number is take five by dave brubeck, featuring an alto sax solo by the prince of darkness" :twisted:

[altoist]

"and our next number is take five by dave brubeck, featuring an alto sax solo by the prince of darkness" :twisted:

If you look up "Take Five", you'll find that the writer is not Dave Brubeck. And yes, I've
read the liner notes to all of the (pre 1967) DBQ albums and I'm familiar with the genesis of the song.

Shame on you! It's a saxophone forum; you're not allowed to make a mistake like that. :evil:

It is a nice looking horn, I've gotta say. Still, I think I'd rather have the solid silver Yanagi$awa.

[Manny]

ok ok, geez,

at the risk of looking stupider, my seconed guess is, um, paul desmond?

anyways whoever would take a cannonball over a solid silver yani would be smoking something, I hate yanis and I still would take it over everything besides a sweet mk VI.

[altoist]

Yup, Desmond. He's certainly the reason I listen to DBQ, since I'm not a huge fan of the pianist.
Since this is the Cannonball section, I should mention that one of the Cannonball endorsing
artists, Brent Jensen, does a wonderful tribute to Paul Desmond titled "Like The Sound of
A Dry Martini", which of course has a version of Take Five on it.

I'd take the Yani over the Raven even if the prices were the same. It's the most beautiful horn I've seen, and I happen to love Yaniagisawas. I think Cannonballs are pretty good for Taiwanese
horns, but I really dislike the price. They didn't seem enough better than their lower priced
competitors to justify the difference, and since I'd have to go to a local retailer to buy I'd get smacked by a sales tax too. One guy wanted as much for a Big Bell alto as I paid for a Yani A991.

[Manny]

yes, I think that the excitement over the cannonballs have really inflated the price here among local dealers; they are really hyping them... though I think the saxes are great, dealers shouldn'e expect such a new manufacturer to garner such high prices.

I'm sure there is some way to order out of state...

[KJ]

I am an educational salesperson for a company that sells cballs.
Since cannonball allows their dealers a protected territory, some dealers charge more than they should. (the dealer one state over from us sells at list price only!!)
My company has seen a lot of people driving one or two hours to come to one of our stores because we give pretty big discounts and good service (ie. $1000 bucks saved for a two hour drive).Unfortunately, as more and more pros switch to Cannonball and more people see that they are an excellent horn, these dealers may not change their ways for a while...
p.s. My company follows the rules that cannonball has established and does not sell the saxes via the web or phone to people in other dealer's areas, so don't even ask me... :!:

[Stacey]

KJ,

Cannonball allows dealers a protected territory? That's interesting, and surprising to me - is that common for musical instrument manufacturers these days? How does a person find out who his area dealer is - through the CB website, maybe?

Thanks,

Stacey

[KJ]

Stacey,
There are a few brands that work that way.
It is a good system as long as the dealers provide good after the sale service and don't inflate prices.

To find your local dealer, email cball trough their website.

[Manny]

stacy, for us its milano's music, but you can get by it as long as you don't live in mesa, though they're pretty reasonable if you talk them down (about 1800 for a black alto).

[Dr G]

"Second Wind Instrument Repair" in Albuquerque is another "local" dealer.

[altoist]

IThe whole restricted dealership thing turns me off, though I understand why dealers like it. There's no money in selling saxes at a music store, because you can buy stuff over the internet far cheaper. Why buy a Yamaha at someone's store when you realize they're
charging way over what you can get from the net.

Unison also does this, though you can buy their high end horn from the UK saxophone
site .

Prices I saw for CBall Big Bell altos were from $1750 (iced finish) to $2300. While I tried the
CBalls and they seemed like good Taiwanese horns, that is way too much. I tried a Jupiter
Artist which WWBW sells for $1160, and that seems comparable to the CBall. I didn't think
the CBalls were as good as the Yani's (A901 for about $1500, A991for $2300) or the Yamaha Custom horns (82Z for $2200), no doubt a personal opinion, I'm sure some people find them worth $2300.

If the CBall were priced more like the Jupiter Artist, say $1200 or $1300, I'd have bought one. Probably the black one, since it is rather unique. I liked the ones I tried, they're just overpriced, like Selmers.

[Stacey]

I don't actually need to find a dealer, because I already bought a Cannonball. I just didn't realize there were "territories".

Anyway, I'm extremely happy with the horn, and after seeing some of the prices that have been posted here, I think I should also be extremely happy with the price - some of you folks are posting alto prices that are significantly higher than I paid for my black nickel TENOR!

I don't live in Mesa, which I assume (from Manny's post) is a protected territory.

[KJ]

Altoist-
As I stated earlier, the drawback for the buyer in the protected territories plan is the possibility of inflated prices.

However, put yourself in place of the dealer:

Say, for instance, that Stacey discovers a problem with his horn that is covered under warranty. (ie. a loose resonator, or a cork falls off, etc...)

If he were to take it to his local cball dealer (even though he did not purchase it there), should he expect them to correct the problem?
If the dealer's in house tech can repair the problem in an hour or less, should they? It would cost the dealer money to fix the horn (in man hours,supplies), even though it was not purchased there.
My company would probably fix it free anyways- we're nice guys. However, what if there were 200 horns in our market that were sold by someone else over the internet? Even if 10% just had minor warranty questions (ie. the mouthpiece that came with the horn doesn't work for me- can I trade it for another one) we would be spending a lot of time and money on them.

Stacey would also have the option of sending the horn back to the dealer he purchased it from (assuming the factory warranty is valid in internet purchases), but to go without a horn for two or more weeks because of a cork might be more trouble that it's worth.
Additionally, any gigs he can't play might negate the difference in price he might of saved by buying long distance (especially after shipping, man hours spent arranging ups pickup, repacking the horn, etc...).
He might just decide to pay for the repair out of his own pocket to avoid the hassle.

This is not meant to be a stab at Stacey- There are many deciding factors that go into the purchase of an instrument, nor does it denote the quality of the instruments, which come to us set up better than most of our other brands.
And before I started working for a family owned music company, I used to buy alot of my supplies via the net. (until I got burned by one- their not MY friend anymore)kj

[altoist]

Stacey,
Why don't you post the price you paid for your black nickel tenor in AZ? That way, the rest of us can be more informed buyers?

The prices I quoted are for the Silicon Valley area of Northern CA. I bet I could have negotiated at least the high price down.

[Manny]

Stacy got it from Tim Glesmann from sax alley in Colorado,

he quoted me $1900 for a gold and black alto, with his servicing before it was sent, but I didn't really try to talk him down :wink:

The dealer here in mesa (who runs pretty high in prices) got down to $1800 but of course that includes tax.

[Stacey]

Well, since Tim Glesmann impressed me as a very upstanding man who wouldn't say or do anything against his conscience...

Tim did not approach me or solicit my business - rather, I read good things about him on SOTW and approached him about a Keilwerth. He simply agreed to sell me the horn I eventually decided I wanted (a Cannonball, because the JK was out of my price range). He should not be characterized (nor has he been thus characterized - I just want to make sure no one gets that impression) as being out "pushing his Cannonballs on the Internet", because that's not the case: *I* was the one asking *HIM* questions, and it would have been rude of him not to answer. Given his pricing, helpfulness, and responsiveness, I would indeed have traveled to his location to buy the horn (putting in me in the same position as those walk-in customers who were mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

To address a few other comments made earlier:

1. I never said I bought my horn from someone who was not my "authorized" dealer. I had no idea there were territorially-protected dealers. To this day, I don't know for certain who *my* dealer is for Chandler, Arizona; in fact, I don't especially care, since I have my horn, with warranty, in hand, and my purchase meets all of the terms and conditions written on that warranty. My warranty specifies that it "only applies to a purchase of a Cannonball Musical Instrument from an authorized Cannonball dealer". No stipulations are made in the warranty regarding the purchase mechanism - walk-in, telephone, USPS, email, etc. Nor is anything specified about WHICH authorized dealer I should use. Given the reputation for excellent customer service that Tevis and Sheryl have gained, I would be astounded if I were denied any warranty repairs - that's more the sort of thing I would expect from somebody like Selmer.

2. I used both email and USPS snail mail for correspondence, but to say I bought this horn "over the Internet" is perhaps misleading. This would imply that Tim has something posted on his website indicating that he is a CB dealer, or showing a price list, or something; this is simply not the case. My initial conversations with him were regarding a Keilwerth, and only after budgetary concerns ruled out an SX90R did I begin asking him questions about Cannonballs.

3. Any discussion of potential "lost wages from missed gigs" shouldn't include my name! I don't expect lost wages to be a concern... LOL

[Dr G]

Say, for instance, that Stacey discovers a problem with his horn that is covered under warranty. (ie. a loose resonator, or a cork falls off, etc...)

If he were to take it to his local cball dealer (even though he did not purchase it there), should he expect them to correct the problem?

Yes, just as if I were traveling crosscountry on my motorcycle and needed to visit a mechanic or if I moved to a new area and required warranty work. A warranty is supported by the manufacturer and should be honored by any authorized dealer. They, in turn, are reimbursed by the manufacturer for their expenses.

[larry]

Have you ever been the only one in your section with a black nickel saxophone doesnt it seem wierd?

Back to the original question: me, I like being wierd. Embrace your non-conformity! Isn't, afterall, that the essence of creativity? I think your goal should be to sound your best and find your own musical "voice". If you end up doing that with a tiger print LA Sax, who cares? In fact, more power to you!

That being said, it's never that cut and dried. A dorky looking horn may prejudice people against you before they hear you play. Same as a really cool looking Raven CBall may engender higher expectations.

I guess I'm saying, don't sweat the appearance so much - it's what comes out of the horn that really matters. My $0.02.

[Dr G]

If you want to gain attention by playing an odd-looking horn, it's best to be able to back it up with some real skill. If all you're doing is posing, real players will see through it very quickly. If you have the chops and play a different looking horn, no big deal. The Dalai Lama would suggest that you inspect your motives.

I still remember seeing Ernie Watts when he first started playing a black nickel J-K... Whew... Yeah, it wasn't a Selmer, and yeah, it didn't look like all the rest... But MAN, he can PLAY!

[studsoccer06]

KG

I've been looking for a cannonball sax dealer in my area. I noticed that you live in NC so i'm assuming your business is to. I also live in NC, would you be able to give the website of you business so i can see if it'd be convinent for me to stop by.

Spencer