Will my son hate me forever if i replace his lost YAS-52....

[apainttown]

another manufacturer? That of course is a rhetorical question. What I need to do is investigate other manufactuer's equivalent models. Any suggestions to a non-musical dad would be greatly appreciated.

[silverghost]

I'm sure we'd all be happy to answer your question. However we need some more info as to the situation. Here are some questions we kinda need answered to try and figure out whether your son will hate you or not (don't worry, i don't know that anyone would hate their dad over a sax!!!)

1. How old is your son, and how long has he been playing?
2. What type of music are you playing?
3. What is your budget situation, (to put it lightly)?

Hopefully, that kind of info can help us answer your question. Welcome to the forums and Happy Posting!!!!!!

SilverGhost

[apainttown]

1. How old is your son, and how long has he been playing?

14 years old

2. What type of music are you playing?

middle school jazz band

3. What is your budget situation, (to put it lightly)?

i am looking for an equivalent replacement to what he lost, a YAS-52. i have researched it a little and have got a feel for the potential cost from watching ebay.

thx

[colibri]

Get him a Monique. If he decides later than sax isn't the one, don't worry. These cost about $200. If he's serious about playing, he'll make a sewer pipe sound good.

[JfW]

<sarcasm>
Yes, buy him a very cheap horn just *in case* he decides not to persue this interest much longer. Thay way, when he struggles with his horn and gives up playing, one can feel good about the decision not to make a real investment because he gave up, after all.
</sarcasm>

sorry, but that's a mistake and a recipe for dooming the poor kid to failure. You can invest a few hundred in a junk horn, squelch talent, and then if you're lucky, you'll get $50 back for the privledge of selling the POS to some other kid's parent's, dooming that kid to failure as well.

[JfW]

To answer the original inquiry: Yeah, Yamaha student and intermediates gather top dollar, even on Ebay. You could get a suitable replacement for less money if you decided on something other than Yamaha. Vintage may be your best path. Heck, post Selmer Bueschers are fine instruments and can be had for a bargain, as can pre 900 Yanagisawas (which are pro level horns)

[Morry]

I would suggest that, for his benefit, you do what my folks did for me when I was 15...buy him the very best horn you can afford. My parents purchased a pro line YAS-61 for me during my Sophomore year of High School, and it was the best thing they could do for me at the time.

If you buy a quality instrument and he stays with it, you've done him a favor. If he doesn't stick with it, and you have to sell it, you've done yourself a favor by having a horn with some residual value.

[colibri]

sorry, but that's a mistake and a recipe for dooming the poor kid to failure.
If he gives up playing because of a ratty horn, then musically he is a failure all by himself.

When Roland Kirk had no sax to play, he would play on a water hose. Santy Runyon carved a reed out of plastic when his only reed died, and kept on playing. Go figure.

[apainttown]

i have say i am committed to the price range of a YAS -52. that actually is a discontinued line and now yamaha has replaced it with the YAS-475 series. i am not willing to buy down but want to at least stay in that price range. as painful as it may be at the moment i want to get him the best i can afford. he has been playing 3 years now and he seems as focused as a 14 year old can be, and has never mentioned putting the instrument down.

[gary]

If he gives up playing because of a ratty horn, then musically he is a failure all by himself.Oh how I wish I could be so smug and wise...again.

Regarding the instrument, I would take a look at the Jupiter "Artist" model. It's the same price range (discounted ie woodwind and brasswind.com and others) as the Yamaha and I believe has a bit more body to the sound. I believe its's a good horn for the price.

[KeithL]

Errah, why not take the kid to a few shops and have him try some horns and see what he likes??

[JfW]

sorry, but that's a mistake and a recipe for dooming the poor kid to failure.
If he gives up playing because of a ratty horn, then musically he is a failure all by himself.

When Roland Kirk had no sax to play, he would play on a water hose. Santy Runyon carved a reed out of plastic when his only reed died, and kept on playing. Go figure.


You may be right colbri. We've all been doing it wrong all these years. We shouldn't have been playing the sax at all, rather we should have been playing a rubber hose with a carved plastic reed, and if we couldn't get a good tone out of it, it would just prove how poor musicians we all are.

I was mistaken in not thinking that one needs to fight the horn to develop proper technique. Yes indeed, it is a mistake to waste one's time learing to actually play on a properly adjusted horn.

Thanks for showing us all the proper path to greatness.

[Jerry K.]

Keith offers excellent advice. Wht not turn this into a positive situation? If you go to a store with a really good selection you will have lots of options. A number of the Taiwanese horns are very good now and possibly a step up from the YAS-52 for similiar or less money. You may find that your boy really likes something other than Yamaha and he will feel that it's his choice. Where do you live? I'm sure someone can recommend a good store near you.

[apainttown]

the store thing might be possible, he lives several hundred miles away. the ebay used saxophone arena seems attractive. i just am not knowlegable regarding equivilent models. hence the post in this forum. thx

[Jerry K.]

I have a unique horn that may fit the bill that I can sell it to you at a very attractive price. The horn is a Prestini Classic alto (their top pro model) that I had hand engraved extensively by Jason Dumars. I don't know if you've read about his work here or elsewhere, but it's amazing. Please take a look at the pictures and email me if you think you may be interested. I will be happy to discuss the horn and the asking price. Here's the actual horn I'm talking about:

http://hometown.aol.com/lightnsail/images/01270006.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/lightnsail/images/01270002.jpg

[colibri]

I was mistaken in not thinking that one needs to fight the horn to develop proper technique. Yes indeed, it is a mistake to waste one's time learing to actually play on a properly adjusted horn.
You do realize that not everyone in the world has the fortune to start playing on a well adjusted horn like the spoiled brats all over North America, don't you?

A Monique is far better than what I started playing on. Yet I'm still playing today, and probably a lot better than others here who started on good horns.

[colibri]

By the way, you obviously missed my point. The point is, one does not need a well adjusted horn to start on.

[Jerry K.]

Colibri, what did you start playing on? What do you play today?

By the way, I've met brats from all over the world so I don't think North America has the corner on the market on that one. Where are you coming from that you'd make that comment anyway? :roll:

[Razzy]

<sarcasm>
Yes, buy him a very cheap horn just *in case* he decides not to persue this interest much longer. Thay way, when he struggles with his horn and gives up playing, one can feel good about the decision not to make a real investment because he gave up, after all.
</sarcasm>

sorry, but that's a mistake and a recipe for dooming the poor kid to failure. You can invest a few hundred in a junk horn, squelch talent, and then if you're lucky, you'll get $50 back for the privledge of selling the POS to some other kid's parent's, dooming that kid to failure as well.

I've gotta disagree somewhat. Of course the kid shouldn't get a real junker. But if the horn at least works and gets an even sound, then it's a fair deal. I wouldn't think of getting a middle school player a mark VI or a Selmer series III or equivalent horn. Not only has he most likely not displayed the will to pursue it to deserve that horn, but also he shouldn't be spoiled at such a young age. He should sooner learn that the sound coming out of the horn is more about him than the horn itself. I play a real junker horn, a Vito student that's in pretty poor adjustment, but I've worked with it for a few years and get a nice sound. I've played mark VI's and other much higher quality horns; I only notice minor differences such as intonation, slight timbral changes, and the like.

Bottom line: get him a student level horn in good adjustment and see if he can eventually get a good sound out of it. This can only come from hard work. If he does, then think about buying him a higher quality instrument.

[gary]

Razzy - I don't think you're really disgreeing very much. I think the point being made above is don't buy your kid a piece of crap just to prove a point.

[JfW]

Razzy - I don't think you're really disgreeing very much. I think the point being made above is don't buy your kid a piece of crap just to prove a point.

indeed.

Also, the original poster said he was looking to replace a Yas52 with an equivalent model. I take that as having a resonable sum of money to spend on the project

[Sam]

I wouldn't think of getting a middle school player a mark VI or a Selmer series III or equivalent horn. Not only has he most likely not displayed the will to pursue it to deserve that horn, but also he shouldn't be spoiled at such a young age. He should sooner learn that the sound coming out of the horn is more about him than the horn itself.
Gee. I bought my kid a non-collectible relaq 1968 Mark VI tenor on EBay two years ago for $1375. My thinking was: a) He's a good player for a middle-school kid, and I can, so I should. b) I'd pay almost as much for half the horn new. c) Who cares about collectability? Behind the screen, it feels and plays like a blinkin' Mark VI! d) No, he doesn't deserve a Mark VI. e) But, now, he can NEVER blame it on the gear -- if the sound ain't right, GET TO WORK! f) @nd, I can always get my money back.[/quote]

[MS]

It's hard enoough for a youngster to play ANY saxophone. Sometimes I think I spend too much time helping with little horn problems, but hey- If the horn doesn't work it's hopeless to try to teach embouchure/air support etc...

I don't think the name of the horn matters as much as "can it be put into adjustment and how long will it stay there"? OK, there are variables too put into the equation:
1. Demonstrated student responsibility
2. On list of interests 1 to 20, where does sax fit
3. student's determination, creativity, motor skills
4. concentration focus ability
5. Any physical or learning disabilites
6. Older/cheapest horn-possibly higher maintainence costs and
more down time (in repair shop and not in class).
7. Smartest investment possibilities from parent standpoint.

The list of considerations could go on. Young students will always want a shinny horn (new). Balance that against advice from experienced pros/teachers, your wallet, and common sense evaluation of your son.
What we think doesn't matter much. We don't/can't have a good handle on information only available to you. You'll make the right choice for you and your son. Best wishes and trust yourself and your son.

[mark_m]

The point that -most- are agreeing on being, get a horn that's in good playing condition and of sufficient quality to not need frequent servicing.

Part of the decision, a big part, is knowing your child, and how he will relate to the horn. It's really worth something for him to just plain like it and feel like he has a horn he wants.

As someone mentioned, a well-chosen older horn, like a Buescher, might be just the ticket, if and perhaps only if, your son is enthusiastic about that choice.

Personally I think that if you trust him to properly care for it, you can't lose if you buy the best quality you can afford, even if it's "overkill". Look for something that will have good resale value, then you really don't risk much in your spending, and everyone gets the best possible outcome.

I think what would be good might be for us to provide more, specific, recommendations of horns to consider, new and used, so that you have a list to work from - this seems to me to be what you were asking for. As opposed to a debate about what decision you should actually make or how you should make it.