Learning and memorizing tunes in all 12 keys

[groove66]

Throughout the years that I've been playing the sax I've always focused on learning tunes. I sometimes go to jam sessions feeling confident enough because by now I know several standards. But it always happens... Somebody calls a tune that I know, but in a different key. It takes me at least a minute or two to transpose the melody and chord progression to the new key, and since I can't have everyone waiting for me I just have to sit it out. Some teachers have told me that I should learn and memorize every single standard in all 12 keys but this seems like a monumental task almost impossible to complete in a single lifetime. Am I wrong? Is it really necessary to learn the tunes in ALL 12 KEYS? Does anybody have any suggestions, tips or comments on this? Thanx. :roll:

[No Clever Name]

I certainly do not know all of the standards in all of the keys, but I do know a lot of them, in the most common keys they are played in. Check out different recordings to find out which keys these are.

I also know some tunes in all twelve keys... and I know enough of them to be able to transpose the majority of the stuff I don't while I'm playing. And if I can't, when it gets to my turn to solo, I scream off some altissimo. :D

[Perfect Pitch]

memorize every single standard in all 12 keys :roll:


If only I knew every standard in one key :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Wailin']

Maybe whoever said memorize every standard in all 12 keys said it in order to motivate someone. There was a rather lengthy discussion on this forum before we moved here and it was filled with a lot of attacks back and forth between those who were supporting learning to play in all keys and those who were not. I kinda forsee they same thing happening here.

Maybe it's more important to learn to solo or accompany in all keys rather than pursue the goal of learning all standards in all 12 keys.

[madgrocer]

Can you play Happy Birthday in all 12 keys?? How about Mary had a little Lamb??
Probably not, if you've never tried it, at least not without stumbling over a couple notes in Db. But hey, thats what learnin is all about.
I agree with the above, the idea that you could learn every standard, in every key, is a difficult task. However, the exercise in learning tunes in all 12 keys, or anything for that matter, is one that builds "ear to hand".
That is really the point, you may never be memorizing all the notes, but you will be "hearing " the notes, and your fingers will just begin to "play" them. Playing in all 12keys is all about building your chops, and improving your "ear to hand" playing... which is your most valuable asset as a jazz musician. Start by learning an easy tune, playing it by ear, in every key. As you do this, you will continue to build muscle ear/hand memory, that will allow this process to happen more automatically, as you progress to harder tunes.
And even if you never learn every tune, or you only learn a dozen, your playing will improve, the more you do it.

[JL]

Try playing "Summertime" in all 12 keys. That's an easy one to transpose and if you play it with different singers, you'll never know what key they might call it in. Madgrocer has it right. The idea is to develop your ear to play in any key.

[TheChristianSax]

I often wondered what it would be like to have "perfect pitch", a photographic memory, and musical talent all at the same time. Would it be maddening, and is there anyone out there with all of those qualities?

I started really focusing a good amount of time working on my playing well after getting out of school. I am now in my mid-thirties and finding it hard to memorize anything, probably from not exercising my brain in that way much anymore. I think it would have been easier if I had a good sax teacher when I was 12 and just starting out. It seemed to sink in quicker and stay. I still try my best, but to memorize things in all 12 keys for many songs would be monumental. I think I have gotten to the point, though, that my inner ear can transpose it pretty quickly if there is a change in key. I have done it before. That is what I love about this site's forums; I am not the only one out there thinking these same things.

Sincerely,

Matt

[noelpaz]

Yes - it is more important to solo in different keys rather than memorize how to play in 12 keys. Next time ask the bass player to play the head or the guitar player and then comp by playing thirds or root and by the time the first chorus is due, if you knew the melody in the other key you probably are ready to go. If it is still uncomfortable to solo over the changes because you cannot relate to the melodic line, I've done blues scale, pentatonics and diminished scale and some occasional tritone to get me thru one chorus - and then I let the bass player do a solo :D

[Subtone Sam]

Most standards are played in some particular key,like "There will never be another You" in Eb etc. but sometimes you have to be able to transpose,especially the chords,if there is a vocalist in the band.Also,some easier standards,like "Summertime" and some blues tunes have several different keys they can be played in.But very rarely anyone calls for "All the Things You Are" in F#,for the obvious reason..

[gary]

I often wondered what it would be like to have "perfect pitch", a photographic memory, and musical talent all at the same time. Would it be maddening, and is there anyone out there with all of those qualities? LOL!!! And I often wondered how many people posting on various threads can actually do what they suggest others should do.

[soultwist]

I dont think you have to practice everything in all twelve keys. What you eventually get is a working knowledge in all keyes. For instance, can you instantly name every note in every key? Like what´s the third in G or whats the flatted fifth in F#? What a re the notes in an Ab7b9 chord? If you can do that then you can easily transpose any tune into any key.

[gary]

What? I can name any of those notes in nano-seconds but I can't play Donna Lee in Gb.

[soultwist]

Well, then maybe you have learned it´s name but not it´s function.

[gary]

I'm a professional composer/arranger, soultwist. I think I've got it down pretty good.

Maybe you mean more than you said. I took what you said to mean
that if I can name the scale degree quickly on any scale, then I can "easily transpose any tune into any key". I'm probably missing something. Could you elaborate?

[MPL]

Learning every standard in all 12 keys is an interesting goal, but I don't know if I'd try that myself. I agree with an earlier post: I'd like to learn every standard in just ONE key!

Phil Woods was in my area a couple of nights ago and did a brief clinic at a local music store. He talked specifically about practicing in all 12 keys and demonstrated it by going through the first 16 bars of "Autumn Leaves" in each key, one chorus after another.

He also said that it's a technical exercise that gets your brain and your fingers used to playing in any key, so that your imagination isn't hindered by your lack of facility in a "harder" key. Part of the exercise is to get your brain used to thinking about relative pitch relationships and translating them into different keys quickly. It's like knowing that a given progression is I-VI-ii-V7-I, and not necessarily Gb-Eb-Abmi-Db7-Gb.

Lately I've been trying the 12-key exercise with Honeysuckle Rose, including learning the head and playing two or three choruses. Yeah, some of the licks are in the same in the "harder" keys...but you have to start somewhere!

[Razzy]

I don't think anybody really has the ability to play any tune in any key, in a matter of seconds. Maybe some real geniuses. But a lot of us don't have that kind of time. However, most of us can figure out the simpler tunes (e.g. NOT Donna Lee... e.g., Autumn Leaves ;)) in a few minutes by using our developed concept of relative pitch. Relative pitch is really built by doing technique, scale, and arpeggio exercises in all keys, and by playing different songs in many keys, and sightreading in a variety of keys throughout your musical development and practice. It's a skill that can be applied but not as fast as, say, reaction to a new chord in an improvised solo.

Example: I learned the tune Straight No Chaser in all twelve keys, to supplement my learning of the 12 bar blues in all 12 keys, and it was a really good exercise in relative pitch to hear how certain passing tones worked through the blues progression; got me thinking not by note names, but in scale degrees and chord functions, as mentioned above.

[SmartGuy02]

I went to the Aebersold camp this summer and had the theory class with David Baker. On the last day of camp, he announced that we would all be able to play at least 5 tunes in any key within the hour. I never would have believe that a class of 75 would be able to instantly transpose the melody to "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" in any key. His method relies on knowing the intervals of the melody notes and knowing the functions of the chords. For example, the first couple notes of SOTR are: Starting Note, up an octave, down a halfstep, down a major third, up a whole step, up a whole step, up a half step. If you can learn to think of melodies and chords in this way, transposing becomes a piece of cake.

[Doxy]

I've found that the "I can't" thought process has kept me from doing things that really aren't as hard as they sound. I don't know about the rest of you, but I often don't give myself enough credit or put enough faith in my knowledge and abilities.

Lately, I've been picking a melody that I know inside and out in the traditional key(s) and I'll start playing it on a random note. If I relax and don't think too much, I can usually get through it just fine. If I start thinking, then I inevitably start doubting and things fall apart because I lose trust in my fingers and my ears. The part about this "exercise" that has been the most helpful is that I don't make it an exercise. It isn't something that I drill myself on with the expectation of results, rather I do it for fun as a way to utilize the dreaded "idle noodling" time that so many saxophonists are cursed with (myself especially included). I've learned a lot of things that I always had trouble "practicing" by taking them out of the practice realm and playing them in a more relaxed setting (i.e. before a rehearsal while everyone else is setting up equipment, getting drunk, or smoking on the porch).

[Andrew Garton]

I know this post seems to be over, but i guess i just wanted to have my say. Firstly, I think the point of learning a tune in 12 keys is more about the chords than the melody (which is simply transposition - and very good methods for this have already been suggested). Also, i think that it's pretty much agreed that literally learning the changes in all keys is ridiculous (ie. learn them in c first, then in c#, then d, etc.).

As far as educators are concerned, i think saying "learn all tunes in 12 keys" is a way of convincing players not to just learn the tune in a particular key, but learn and understand the way the harmony works. Once you know the ins and outs of the harmony, it's not too hard to transpose.

so for cherokee, it's just: I, ii-V into the subdominant, then bVII7 (that's the first 8), then I, V7 of V, ii, V7 of ii, ii-V back to the top.

Once you learn a tune that way it's easy to transpose it into any key - provided you can easily work out any scale degree from a scale (vi of G is e, etc.) - i know that this has already been said.

so i guess my point is that learning tunes in all keys is an exercise designed to convince a student to find a more efficient way of playing in all keys, namely, fully understanding the structure of the song - which i think is a more important skill.

[JL]

Well said, Andrew. Your post should be very helpful to anyone who reads it carefully and understands it. I know I haven't added anything here, but just wanted to highlight the importance of what you said. Think in terms of "I" "IV" "ii" "V" "bVI" etc. and things will start to fall into place.

[jazzbluescat]

I agree with what's been said about knowing and having a working knowledge of all keys, then applying the number system, in that particular key, rather than transposing, per se. And, not letting the numbers que you back to the original key will avoid confusion.
Although you're transposing, you're not, but, rather simply playing in a key (albeit different). I guess this means to have a working knowledge of the number system, also.

[Troy]

...I learned the tune Straight No Chaser in all twelve keys, to supplement my learning of the 12 bar blues in all 12 keys, and it was a really good exercise in relative pitch to hear how certain passing tones worked through the blues progression; got me thinking not by note names, but in scale degrees and chord functions, as mentioned above.

To me, this is the only way I can approach this without just getting overwhelmed/intimidated. I am learning to play sax, and relearning to play piano, in this way. ID the scale, ID the progression (what degrees are used in what order), ID the iversions.

Surprisingly, I am starting to "get it" on piano. Sax lags behind because I've only been doing that a couple years. I'm not doing this "on the fly" yet, but I'm starting to get my brain around it.

The idea of memorizing all the standards in all keys would just cause my brain to rebel and shut down.

[Razzy]

I've found it valuable to learn certain changes in all keys too. 12 bar blues, rhythm changes, tunes like "Donna Lee" and "Ornithology". They appear more commonly though, so this approach makes sense.

[Troy]

This makes sense to me. With 12 bar blues and Rhythm changes under my belt (in all keys), I could cover a lot of tunes. My brain can handle that. Thanks!

[Talldog]

Standards are called standards because they're played in the (composer's)original key. Everytime I run into standards in odd keys it's because the essentially lame pianist or guitarist has transposed it to facilitate technique on his ax, after playing years as a single. The pros in NYC, LA, Boston, Chi-town, Peoria, Wichita, Fayetteville, and East Bum F*@! play the standards in the standard key. Any agreement here?

[soulsax]

Man nobody needs to loose sleep over 12 keys. Each key that you get good at will only take you to other keys that you start to hear and "see"! It's sort'a like blowing by the seat of ur pants. You ain't got much time to make a choice, so you tune out what's around you, and sound as clean as possable. 10 classy clean notes are better than a 100 hi tech show off but not so clean notes to the mass of ears that are listening. !st grade 2nd grade 3rd grade ect. That route works best... But don't be afraid to take chances, even though they will bite u on the butt sometimes, if done right you will wake up satisfied...Most of all keep at it through the young and blue years, dont be afraid to take a 3-6 month breaks maybe only play 4ths and 5ths, no scales or few scales or songs. Few can raddle off this or that song in 12 keys, very few, so next time ur teacher enlighten's you to that ,ask for a demo :|

[Doxy]

Standards are called standards because they're played in the (composer's)original key. Everytime I run into standards in odd keys it's because the essentially lame pianist or guitarist has transposed it to facilitate technique on his ax, after playing years as a single. The pros in NYC, LA, Boston, Chi-town, Peoria, Wichita, Fayetteville, and East Bum F*@! play the standards in the standard key. Any agreement here?

Sometimes players learn standards in a non-standard key because they swiped it from a version that was recorded in another key. I remember wanting to play Slow Boat to China when I heard Rollins play it, so I transcribed it off of his disc in Eb. When I tried to play along with a Parker or Phil Woods version, I noticed it was in Bb. Later, I had to learn Its You or No One for a gig. I had no chart for it so I pulled it off a Johnny Griffin recording. What a surprise when I got to the gig and it came up in a different key. The leader's chart had been pulled off a different recording ( not to mention the play-along I recently bought that has it in still another key!).

Sure, most songs have standard keys, but many have alternate keys that are just as common (Green Dolphin Street, Autumn Leaves, Laura, I Thought About You). It can't hurt to know songs in several keys (in case Joe Lovano shows up at your jam session and calls Moment's Notice in Q-flat), but I agree that most people stick to the standard key(s).

[Nefertiti]

You could learn all your tunes on tenor then go to a jazz session and play them all on alto using the tenor fingerings calling out the corresponding keys. If someone says they can't do it in that key give them a disgusted face pack up your horn and leave. They'll think your burning and you'll get quite the reputation around town. And you don't even have to know them in all keys.

[Doxy]

You'll have a great reputation until everyone figures out that you can't live up to the demands you place on others.

[MattC]

Talldog - I disagree. As a former rythm section player (bass) I can tell you that the main reason for transposing into different keys is singers. If you play with a vairety of singers you will play standards in a variety of keys.

Also sometimes players want a tune to lay on their axe a particular way. If I'm not mistaken, Getz did this a lot.

[Andrew Garton]

I have to disagree with Talldog too - people don't just play standards in "different" keys because of technical misgivings. I bet bill evans could have played anything in all 12 keys, but he chose particular keys because the voicings he wanted sounded right in a particular range on the keyboard. and Doxy hit it on the head - listen to recordings by great jazz players - johnny griffin, generally considered to be one of the most technically capable sax players of his day, didn't always play in "standard" keys. rollins played "god bless the child" in A with jim hall - enough said.

also i think Soulsax's claim that "Few can raddle off this or that song in 12 keys, very few, so next time ur teacher enlighten's you to that ,ask for a demo" must be taken from a very a limited perspective - any good saxophone teacher should definitely be able to do it, and i've definitely been at workshops with pro players who do it and rigorously suggest it (i'm talking about improvising in 12 keys - not playing the melody). really, it's a practise exercise to improve your playing - not necessarily something that'll be used on every gig - you'd certainly want to learn a tune in it's "normal" key first off if you're a beginner. but charlie parker apparently practised by playing tunes in all 12 keys, lee konitz did an album playing gershwin tunes in 12 keys etc. etc. it gets done. Soulsax, i'd suggest that if you tried to be a smartarse like to that to any college sax teacher, you'd just embaress yourself.[/quote]

[soulsax]

Andrew not every small town has the type of teachers you speak of. Theres lots of teachers out the but few who are qualitified two blow Donna Lee in 12 keys, Not all will get to go to a proffesional workshop either. Solo'n 12 twelve keys is often easier than blowing the unblimished head. I been to too many jam sessions in the past where sax players could blow the changes in most any key but never have the melody down totally. Larry Sleazak sax Prof at Rice Univ he could do it. So could Warren Snead , and Mark Holder, all Houston collage teachers I know. But the list is small. Few high school band teachers can raddle off this or that in 12 keys! :evil:

[Andrew Garton]

ok, i guess i agree that most high school teachers can't and don't really need to be able to do it.

also, i think we're talking about different things - i definitely agree with you that playing the melody for a bop tune in 12 keys is not something that many players can do (or need to do), i was talking about the changes, which most players can probably do - and i think, educationally speaking, that this is the more useful and instructive thing to do. it forces a student to either get the I, ii, V7 etc. thing going, or to effectively use their ears to hear what's going on in each key.

i wouldn't be surprised if somewhere along the line, the teacher saying "learn the tune in 12 keys" was (understandably) misinterpreted (by either the teacher or the student) as being "learn the melody in 12 keys" as opposed to "learn the changes in 12 keys".

[soulsax]

"or effectively use their ears to hear whats going on" Been my approch for many years. I read and even did 3 semesters with the local collage jazz band. Reading can take you many places. Not something I really enjoy though. Picking up my sax and just blowing is. But man, blowing in 12 keys is work, yet makes the world go around. Over the years, woodsheds involving multi keys get thet most compliments. IMHO they give off the most colors. Am I a jazz player? Na, just a sax player who knows some jazz...

[Doxy]

it forces a student to either get the I, ii, V7 etc. thing going, or to effectively use their ears to hear what's going on in each key.


Exactly. You can learn every tune (harmony and melody) written in twelve keys without fully grasping all it has to offer. If you don't use this method as a key to developing your ear, learning to hear and understand functional harmony, and recognizing intervals, then learning tunes in twelve keys is just an exercise in memorization and not in developing skills that will aid the aspiring improviser.

[soulsax]

No groove, its not nessary to worry about blowing in 12 keys. A well put standard in one key will open other doors. But, you must learn it. In and out. Backwards, forwards and sideways. You should learn to pick up the melody on any note without having to backup a bar or two. That will teach you a lot. Learn to do it spur of the moment. Friday night, or Sunday at church. Or to impress some chick(or guy :evil: ) some place. Chances are she wont ask you to keep it up in 11 more keys! If she does? Dump her!! Cause she'd never be satified. Once you got a song "down". Do another one. I would make #2 in a different key ,and #3 in another key. Move on to others, OR learn ur three standards in those 3 farmilar keys. At that point ur off to a web of cord changes. Three standards, three keys each, no cheat sheets. Follow ur ear, and it will take you to nine other doors, Each a different domain. But each require a key. Throw in minor keys too, and you got plenty to keep you occupied for a long time,...

[larry]

Learning standards in all 12 keys (melody, chords, guide tones, voicings, etc.) is something my teacher does with me a lot. Mostly because I'm really bad at it, therefore there are tremendous benefits to be gained (memorization skills, relative pitch ear training, comfort levels in all 12 keys, etc). I don't have a very good ear at all, so I have to make up for that with intellectualizing the process.

In the beginning, it was really, REALLY hard for me. I spent 4 weeks just doing the first 4 bars of "Triste". After 2 years, I can memorize (easy) heads in a day or so and be able to transpose it everywhere in 2-4 weeks. It does get easier, the more you do it.

I've always been a real visual thinker, so breaking myself off the score and coming up with (closed eye) visualizations of the note relationships has been the biggest challenge for me. That, and I think I blew out my short-term memory in the 70s! :wink:

I'm not sure if that helps, but I guess I'd say, once a skeptic, I'm now pretty converted to the idea that learning this (for me, tough) skill has all kinds of additional benefits to your playing and improvising.

[jazaddict]

I sometimes run melodies in all 12 keys. I probably should learn the changes in terms of Roman numerals, but I'm too lazy.

One interesting side-effect is that I can't recall the "Real Book" starting note & frequently have to ask what the first note is even though I don't need the chart. I can probably do tunes I know in 3 keys cold, 3 more with some sweat, and the unfamiliar 6 with 30 minutes of klunking around. :shock:

Happened this weekend on I'll Remember April....so easy to do the major riff-then-minor riff thing that I quietly played it starting on 2 different notes before I (fortuneately) asked....both were wrong, heh heh.

Then there are the muscle memory tunes (ie Donna Lee, Room 608) where not only am I confined (thru laziness) to the one key, but if I fall off in mid-tune I'm screwed til the top of a section ( or, worse yet, top of the tune) comes around to jump back in. :oops: