Children and saxophones

[keithian]

My 6 year old grandson is very keen to learn sax. Is he too young? If so, when should he start. If not, what type of sax would he be best to start on?

[Frank D]

Get him started in the school music program, whenever that begins. In my day it was 5th grade, but that was eons ago. If he's big enough to handle an alto sax, start with that, otherwise clarinet would be a good choice, picking up sax when he's a little bigger.

If he needs something to noodle on before then, a recorder would be a good gift. Same basic fingering system as sax, will give him something to work on until he's ready to move up.

[Dave Dolson]

Keithian: I recommend starting the child on piano. There he will learn to read music, play chords, melody, harmonies, and rhythm. After a few years of piano and growing physically, he should be able to handle (and play) saxophone easily. That was the way I did it with two of my three children. They were good saxophonists by the time they were ready for school band in high school. They are still playing today (MANY years later). My grandson took the same route - and saxophone came easily to him as well. Good luck. DAVE

[synchro]

Alot depends on the individual child. Does he have the attention span? Will he get frustrated? I play myself and would let my kids come and blow on my horn as young as age 5 when they asked, but to take it up and try and learn it, I would wait until they are at least 9-10 years old before they have lessons and start practising seriously. Some of the above suggestions are great. Start with a recorder or penny whistle. But again, much depends on the particular child.

[Joe]

Keithian, there's several things to consider. Many educators believe that most kids are too young to start before the age of 10 to 12 because they lack the fine motor skills to excel. They also cite lack of focus, discipline, and physical development. You should already know your grandson well enough to have a feel for whether these things will be a problem or not.

I've taught in different school districts where they started the kids in the 5th, 6th, and 7th grades. Funny thing, by the 9th grade, almost all the students were pretty much playing on the same level, no matter when they started. Unless your grandson is a prodigy, his development will probably level off after a couple of years and progress after that will be slower and dependent upon how much work he puts in, no matter what age he starts. In other words, unless he's just dying to play, you really won't hurt his development long term by waiting to start him at an older age.

If you do decide to start him now, alto is certainly the best choice. The action on the Yamahas is definitely set up for smaller hands. Be sure to give him plenty of fun songs to play along with his exercises and heap on the praise. Positive reinforcement is very critical to create a positive musical experience for the average young student.

[barelytone]

Children & Saxophones . . . a DEADLY combination!

[Razzy]

The prodigy is just a serious child, serious about music at an early age. Anybody can become serious and dedicated when they want to, and have the work ethic. See what kind of player he wants to be. If he just wants to have fun, then let him at it :) I'd start lessons as soon as he has the ability to interact with adults and understand what's being said to him.

Also, ever wonder why prodigies tend to be violin and piano players? The technique of those instruments, in addition to feeling natural for individuals of all sizes, is very visual and easy to grasp from examples. Wind instruments are a bit different in this regard... the concepts of breath support and embouchure are much more difficult to convey at an early age, since they must be discussed rather than seen in most cases.

[keithian]

Children and saxophones:

Many thanks to all for your helpful advice. I think we'll wait a few years!

[Lowell]

He may drive you crazy with it, but try him on just a mouthpiece and reed. When he can hold a good solid note on that and vary his note at will, let him try a rented alto. If he gets the music bug, feed it slowly and carefully with lots of fun tunes in addition to the grunt work of scales.

[Sigmund451]

When I had a teacher my son too was/is intereseted but she said his hands at this age are too small...despite coordination...dont know if this is so but I too reccomend piano...I wish my parents had started me on that (I choose guitar, played for many years, and recently switched to sax) its hard to beat the musical foundation piano offers.

Its great (I think...being one) having interested parents on this forum too. I think there are few greater gifts a parent can offer a child than the experince in making music...even if they dont continue into adulthood it builds a foundation for a deeper respect, appreciation, and ability to experience music. It also has positive complex neurological effects.

Additionally, as a therapist I believe there are few better ways to build a base of confidence and a sense of mastery that carries through life and into many areas beyond the musical endeavor.

Kids dont need praise and a focus on modern concepts of self esteem...the message frequently is that "Your alright despite what you do". IMHO what they need is a sense of mastery, experiences of success based in the real world that both they and others can acknowledge. This is what builds character and the strength to move into the unknown....not touchy fuzzy feel goods.

I have to go buy a piano now...

Good luck with your kids. If you play, play with them...even if you know its awfal. If you dont play, learn with them....even if you know you suck. Doesnt matter from a growth stand point.

[Dog Pants]

Funny you should ask. :) I am currently in the process of renting an alto for my son (just turned 10). He has played flute in the school band for a couple of years and practices well and regularly for a 10 year old. Even so, it will be a rental horn for a while to see if he takes to the sax. I've noticed several things with both my son and his bandmates from school, with regard to teaching kids. Of all these observations, the one that I feel compelled to share here is that most of us (and this includes parents, teachers, band masters etc...) have a natural tendency to underestimate our kids. Too many times, (raise hand if this sounds familiar :roll: ) students are keen as mustard and at an age where they literally sponge up information and what do we give them to play??? BORING TUNES...that's what. How many kids were in your school band when you started? How many still there when you left school? Now the band master or mistress will come up with all sorts of excuses for this but (in my experience) what it comes down to is a lack of time and interest and a barely disguised contempt for the kids they are charged with educating. Not all are like this (hold your fire :D ) but I've had run ins with more than one. The outcome is usually that the once keen kid leaves the band and never picks up an instrument again. Things can be different though. My son and his keyboard playing mate were over one afternoon and I had some Bird playing. By the end of the weekend, they had learned Now's The Time by ear and were soloing over it. (just blues scale and poor phrasing etc.. but what an outstanding achievement for two 10 year old kids) They also learned Eddie Vinson's "Kidney Stew is Fine" by ear. Don't let anyone tell you that a kid is too young to learn jazz or blues or that they need to get the theory together first or that they'll have to wait until their technique improves. Play a simple blues for a kid and then play Row Row Row your boat and ask the kid which tune they want to learn, but at least give the poor beggars the choice! And who knows? If they get to play tunes they actually like, maybe they'll actually enjoy practicing and stick with the horn long enough to learn all the theory etc... OK I'm done now flame away :D

[Paul Coats]

The Suzuki string method, with tiny Violins, is used with children as young as 3 or 4. There is a little inexpensive Eb Clarinet that used to teach beginning Clarinet players.

Why, then, can we not begin young Saxophone players on curved Bb Soprano Saxophones? There is NO reason! We start young children on the Bb Soprano CLARINET all the time.

The curved Soprano Sax can be held with a neckstrap to support the weight. A mouthpiece of .050" tip opening, with a suitably soft reed, would work fine. Finger size, and covering open holes, as on the Clarinet, would not be a factor.

The use of the Alto Saxophone for the first Sax in elementary band programs is only because the Alto Sax and the French Horn are the only two alto range instruments used. They already have a lot of Trumpets, Clarinets, and Flutes, so the use of the Alto Sax is to avoid one more soprano instrument, and balance the band.

[Dave Dolson]

Paul C.: Good advice. Still, I understand the recommendations for starting on alto. The resistance from unknowing band instructors a child faces with a soprano may be daunting.

I sent my oldest daughter off to a junior high school band audition with my curved Conn Bb soprano and a handwritten lead-sheet for KING CHANTICLEER (a jazz-pop tune from the '20's). We STILL laugh about that. Yet, she got the "job".

She ended up playing lead alto in a state-champ high school jazz band (doubling soprano) and her younger brother played tenor in the same band. He wowed us all one night at a band concert when he played an alto sax part on SOPHISTICATED LADY that was reminiscent of Hodges (he was using my MKVI).

Regardless of which horn is chosen, it can be done. DAVE

[Mike W]

I think Paul C. makes a valid point. My Mom, who is 81 now, started playing sax in the first grade in MN. Her parents bought her a King saxello (which I now have--and she has my Yani 901 soprano) because it was the only sax they could find that fit her hands. She played Bb clarinet parts in the band for the most part. She has very fond memories of playing sax in school. Looking back, I wish I could have started sax sooner but where I attended grade school, there was no music program at all.

[mms]

I think that starting a child off on recorder would be the best choice. Fingerings are similar and the child will be able to learn how to read music. Piano also works but since recorder is a wind instrument and has similar fingerings as the sax it will be the best. Then start the kid off on alto or soprano, depending on the size of their hands, when the school music program starts (in my area its in 4th grade).

[SopranoSue]

Dogpants, you speak an unfortunate truth. Music programs in school just handle the basic masses. Kids needs stimulation. Whether learning math, science, another language, music, or whatever, you have to keep the progress and activity going.

Unfortunately, public schools can't cater to that. Yeah, sure, there are rehearsals, and band class, and studies handed out, but on NO LEVEL is it anywhere near an individual level where each person needs to be.

I'm not saying that private lessons are magic, but they help. Family support helps. Playing with friends and others help. Sitting in a room all by themselves and trying to have them come up with interesting things to play doesn't help.

Mentors, friends, new music, and such can all create a spark to make someone want to keep playing -- aside from personal desire.

[singlereed]

My daughter began clarinet at 6 (we used an old C clarinet as it is a bit smaller and lighter) and she got a curved soprano sax at 8. Nearly 11, now, she plays soprano, alto and tenor regularly, baritone only when seated and still does clarinet.

[Gange]

Hi,
I read something, somewhere, on the web about a "pocket clarinet". It looked like a recorder with a clarinet mouthpiece. Anyone else heard of this thing? It did not look like some kind of toy but a serious thing.
I guess it could be used instead of the recorder to get a more proper embochoure when starting on the sax (or some other reed instrumet that perhaps should not be named :-) ). Kids _do_ have small hands and alto sax might get them inteo trouble.

I have a colleague who's daughter just started playing sax and he told me that the whole "saxclass" started out on soprano. Later on, when their hands get larger, they switch to alto or tenor. She is about 10-11, I can't really remember. She had started on the recorder.