Improv: How to shift gears from Eb to Bb?

[Wordensong]

Hi guys,

First of all -- thank you for all of your contributions here at SOTW. What a wonderful resource you all are.

Now -- I've been an alto player forever, even professionally for a couple of bands. I've played tenor some, but never with the 'authenticity' or 'command' that I have on the alto. Here's what I mean: On the alto, I think of what I want to do and my fingers play the thing directly -- no problem. With the tenor that doesn't happen. Consequently, tenor solos go to places I never imagined! I find I have to stick a lot closer to the chord progressions and melodies in order to stay out of trouble. I'm doing a lot of thinking [about the chord structure, the progression] that I don't do on alto.

So how do you mentally make the switch from Eb to Bb?

The question has some urgency for me as I have an Antigua 590-SPC arriving tomorrow. (Yeehah!)

Again, thanks for all your input.

--s--

Steve Worden
Wilmington, DE

[Nefertiti]

Man, it took me awhile to feel comfortable. Part of the problem is that you hear certain notes sounding a certain way wneh you finger them and then when you play a different note come out. The only thing that helped me is to play the tenor alot with recordings and live musicians and get used to it. I wish there was a shortcut but I don't think there is.

[DD]

My solution is to think (no, make that act) in "concert key" no matter which I am playing. C is either A or D, F is either D or G, etc. Makes it really simple for flute work, too!

Bottom line, know your material.

[mostly alto guy]

Some people find that visualizing a [Dorian or whatever] written scale in one key then picturing it actually move up or down the same pitch distance as your key shift works.

[1953SBAALTO]

Practice. I just picked up a tenor about 3 months ago and before that was never comfortable on it. It took a little while, but scales and long tones everyday and it'll be second nature for you. Now I pick up my alto and feel confused.

[Bari Gordon]

I asked this question to Paul Contos in a workshop once. He switches from alto (and straight alto) to tenor to soprano to flute to alto flute effortlessly.

He says he tries to conceptualize each instrument by studying where other players have taken the horn. Kind of like if you'r'e playing alto you might be envisioning Bird or Cannonball, if you're playing tenor Sonny or Coltrane. It has helped me to individualize my sound and approach on each horn I play.

I know that doesn't do much to get the fingers to play what the brain is hearing. I agree with Nefertiti that there is no easy way.

[bfoster64]

I finger a B on my alto and try to hear that note (concert D) in my mind's ear. Then pick up the tenor, finger the same B, and try to hear the tenor note (concert A). By focusing on that one central note on each instrument, I get centered in the voice of the instrument, either alto or tenor.

Of course, the comments above are great too. And it is really helpful to learn some simple tunes on both horns and have a deep understanding of harmony so you can easily transpose in fifths and fourths when you go from one instrument to another.

[sopranofreak]

Learn to play clarinet, then the fingering in the lower register matches the sound from the alto and the upper register matches the tenor... ;)

[Wordensong]

I think Nefertiti and 1953sbaalto have it. It seems to be a matter of practice, which I spend on the alto, mostly. I guess this was the obvious answer.

Having had even just a few weeks on the soprano I feel more at ease. After I've played it for ten or fifteen minutes, the fingers seem to have transposed themselves. I can think of a pitch and they go right there.

Thanks for your input!

--s--

[martysax]

Play the same lines with one less sharp.

[ThreeSaxes]

Hope this helps. I'm playing bari mostly nowadays, but sporadically I sub on alto and tenor. I've had to make a sort of mental map or conception of the sound of the horn so that I can switch between them without being wierded out by the change in tone. Practicing long tones seems to help, because the makeup of the individual notes from the three horns is pretty different. Oddly, switching between bari and alto has been the hardest (because of the octave jump? Because the alto is so much smaller? Don't know.). I wonder if it would be easier of all three of the horns came from the same brand (and same era). Maybe if I used the same brand and facing of mouthpiece on each it would be easier as well (and the same brand of reeds). If I have to change horns during a gig, I'll put on one of those Aebersold CDs a day or two beforehand and play the same song on whatever horns I'm going to be using (Mr. P.C. and Spiritual seem to work for me).

[hakukani]

Play the same lines with one less sharp.

I already don't play too sharp.:dazed:

[disgruntleddave]

practice in both.

I still only own an alto.

To remedy this, for when I get a tenor I sometimes practice songs and basic improv on alto using the second overtone on notes, giving me Bb pitch on an alto. As well, sometimes when practicing in my head with my fingers somewhere like in class or on the bus, I will practice with tenor pitch in mind and try to figure out fingerings.