lefthand thumb hurting

[aneider]

Does anybody know more about the following phenomen?
My lefthand thumb is hurting since I played one hour a day for three weeks after having started to play saxophone two months ago. I presume that it comes from the octave key, which I as a beginner didn´t use the first weeks after having started, but then regularly.
What have I done wrong? Is it normal that this hurting comes when a beginner starts to play with ocatve key?
In a german discussion forum someone told me, that it might be dangerous and one should make a pause. Someone else told me, that my lefthand position might be wrong.
Thanks for help!

[kcp]

aneider, there is another thread going on in theis forum on the same topic: http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=6480
Basically it could be related to your posture or your equipment, or both. Some guy said: "Adjust the horn to fit YOU" wich actually makes a lot of sense to me.

[CityStone]

But if its the left thumb that is hurting, no amount of adjusting can help? :cry:

I have the same problem too, started playing about 3 weeks back....the ache in my right thumb is gone after it have gotten use to the rather awkard position it has to be in (even when the weight of the sax is not resting on it)...but my left thumb hurts, even more so each morning when i wake up...i have to massage it for quite a while before the joint would stop cracking on any movement....

And I figured the culprit has got to be the octave key....anyone can advise on the correct way of resting the left thumb on the rest and the octave key? :wink:

[CityStone]

I sort of found a way to make the thumb better, though it may not be able to treat the "root" of the pain...

Try using one of the finger guards/support or finger sleeves sold at sports shops to relieve the pain...These guards are the ones commonly used by volleyball players...it helps to make the pain go away if you wear them long enough..for a day or two...

And keep it on while playing...it helps to reduce the excess stress we introduce to the thumb joint when we play the octave key...though u will get slightly less nimble, as the guards make your hand stiff, it keeps the thumb painless...=)

Stone

[DecaturBill]

I know what you mean about left and right thumbs having problems. I'm a flutist returning to tenor. I'm not used to the thumb rest or the octave key anymore and am trying to practice that away. I find myself using the left fingers too much to contain the sax in position instead of relaxing and letting the harness do the work for me.

Any suggestions about posture, hand use, or harness adjustment? 8) I always play standing, as I feel immobilized when seated.

[orions_belt27]

yes i face the same problems with the left hand too. especially when u tense up and there's just no way to relax the left hand. the thumb gets really bad sometimes.

perhaps a good harness would help secure the sax better? it's hard to be in control when the sax keeps swingin around and u have to use both hands to balance it properly. perhaps the positionin of the body, hands and the sax also have a lot to do with achieving some sorta optimum position where the sax relies on the strap for balance most of the time, leaving the hands more relaxed :) just experiment and see wat works :)

[top_gun25]

i THINK that its the rest pushing in on the thumb... i have big hands and dont have this problem unless i rest my thumb on the little black rest. Normally i go half on rest half on octave. i say it needs padding.

Those little round Band-Aids? Pun intended! :wink:
put one on the rest to coushin it?
(dont think i spelled this ^ right...)
It may not work. but it might help.

I am not a docter. i just have a large knowledge of medicine...
Its a hobby :twisted:

[DecaturBill]

Come to think of it, I feel a little silly having tense hands when playing sax. The sax offers the benefit of a harness; the flute offers nothing more than hands balancing the instrument with a little help from friction. Just beginner's nerves on my part, I guess.

I'm sure glad I gave tenor another shot! What a great horn! It's everything I remember it was so many years ago! 8)

[top_gun25]

i was playing today... i tried to reproduce your problem... I THINK you need to move your thumb farther onto the rest. the rest should press on the BONE and JOINT not the fleshy soft part... thats most likely the problem other wise i had no pain. that was the only way i got it. with my thumb barely on the rest.

see if it helps. if not oh well...

[GaryLee]

I was having trouble with my left thumb and wrist a while ago.
What I discovered was:
1 - I was pushing the sax to the right with my left hand so I changed the position of the neck and let the horn hang more naturally.
2 - I switched back to a neckstrap instead of a sling because the sling tended to pull the horn across my body making #1 worse.

I also modified my horn to fit me - I bought a round rubber furniture pad that is the same size as the thumb rest and about 1/4 inch thick. I sanded it at an angle so it tapers down to the octave key. The end result is that I can hold my thumb and wrist at a more comfortable angle (I have long fingers) and it is easier to use the palm keys without changing my hand position. :D

I am now experimenting with shifting the right thumb rest to the left (looking at the back of the horn) to get my right hand in a more relaxed position.

[Sax_on_legs]

Citystone, just what kind of thumb support are you using? Did you buy it on the net? Do you have a product name or a weblink, by any chance? I really want to fix this problem as I get pains in my left thumb as well, so much so that after a week or two of hour or more practicing a day, I have a take a couple off. Would be grateful if you could let me know which brand you use. Does it totally immobilise the thumb, or does it merely restrict it?

[Morry]

The problem is, almost certainly, way too much tension in the hands. Just like a golfer or a batter, the hands need to be relaxed in order to perform tasks best.

[Mike W]

I agree with Morry. I think he nailed this one.

[Sax_on_legs]

I can't believe I forgot to add this earlier on - I must have suffered a temporary brain death, so please accept my apologies. The first thing, other than resorting to taking frequent breaks, when I got my thumb troubles is that I got the spring tension on my saxophone reduced. Now, I don't know what you play, but I play a YAS62 and these horns come with stainless steel springs (in fact, all Yamahas do, I think). These springs, unless modified, will be quite stiff when you first buy the saxophone. They do last, but unless you adjust them, you will end up gripping the saxophone harder than usual to close the tone holes.

I must add, however, that I still have problems with my thumb. I play for about two weeks and I have to take a couple of days off to recuperate. I've sent off for the thumb support that Citystone recommended, so I'll post again when I try that out. I personally don't think the problem is purely related to gripping the instrument too hard as my hands are quite relaxed when I play. I think some are just more prone than usual. It may be worth adding that I've suffered from tendonitis quite severely on several parts of my body - knees when I run, shoulders and back when I used to practice too much, ...etc. It's just something you have to deal with and try to play around it. I don't intend to give up playing, however...

[kctess5]

I to play a YAS 62 and have thumb problems :(, to hit the octave key I put my thumb on the rest then roll it up towards the neck so he side of my thumb hit the key. I did the same thing on my old vito and got just as bad pain. sometimes my thumb hurts really bad and I have trouble moving it so i pull it out and move it to the side, there is a loud pop (like the tendon is slipping around the bone really fast) and it feels ok

[hakukani]

I used to grasp the horn too tightly. For awhile I had to play a selmer signet, which has a small rounded pearl. It was very painful, but, hey, I was gigging regularly, so I had to play.

I started playing with my thumb lifted off the pearl, and only used the thumb when playing in the upper register. If it started to get any tension, I would make circles with the thumb, until the tension went away.

Now I play on horns with large thumbrests, but I still check and make sure that I'm not gripping too tight with the left thumb the same way I did with the old signet.

[1saxman]

I have a wonderful Martin tenor that sounds incredible, but I just can't take the ergonomics of it anymore. I have accepted the fact that I must have Selmer-type ergos on tenor, my main axe. I also have a Martin bari, but it doesn't bother me because I don't play it more than maybe a max of ten minutes before I switch off. I'm wondering if Aneider may be playing an old or non-Selmer-style sax? The octave key is one of my main problems on the Martin tenor, and it starts hurting after about one set.

[kimslava]

I see some horns where the octave fingertouch is substantially above the level of the LH thumb rest. To not press the fingertouch requires the thumb to be cocked way back in a way that looks uncomfortable to me. Some guys are used to it that way, others have the fingertouch pretty much on the same level as the thumb rest.

That might come into play.

[frankeric]

Holy Moly, and I thought it was only me. I am in my 4 1/2 month of playing alto on a leased new Yamaha yas 23. First my neck was killing me, got a new neck strap and that solved the problem. But now my left thumb is killing me. I am going to a joint Dr and will let you know.
However, the problem must me really bad. I just had 11 days off, vacation, and the problem never left me. I will never not play so I have to solve the problem.
Hurting, frank

[chknbon]

frankeric's dilemma mimics my experience. My neck was bugging me, so I used my BG harness for a gig, & because the horn didn't hang the same, I was supporting the weight on my left thumb more than usual. By the end of the night my left thumb was exhausted & sore.

[frankeric]

No Dr yet, but tried to adjust my position to eleavate the pain. Not good! Messing around with thumb position, for a newbe, changes the embochure and heance the sound. My practice session was crap. Took an Ibuprofan and a scotch and went to bed.
f

[frankeric]

Hey, Sax on legs asked about the thumb guard like volley ball players use. Did anyone find where they can be had?
I am into my 6 month and no relief from thumb pain. I haven't been to a Dr yet and will try like hell not to. I really need to solve this issue.
I tried almost all of the above but no change to the pain after playing.
Please any recommendations are appreciated.
Thanks all..
frank

[PridgNYC]

Changing the position of your left thumb should have no effect on your embouchure. My guess is you have a either aproblem with your neckstrap length or the way you are applying the octave key. The optimum position is where you can rest the weight of your head on your top teeth on the mouthpiece. The neckstrap and the weight of your head will provide most of the stability to the horn. Your thumbs will only apply gentle outward pressure to balance the horn around the fulcrum of the neckstrap attachment. With the primary support being your top teeth and the neckstrap, you should be able to completely remove your left hand without the horn or your embouchure changing position. I have been playing for 2 months and my instructor corrected my left thumb position in my first lesson. Your left thumb should be nearly horizontal (slight upward angle), straight (or slightly curved) and paralell to you chest and lightly resting on the thumb rest. It should be placed in a position such that there is a slight overlap with the octave key so that you can rotate your thumb to apply the octave key. (think of the top of your thumbnail pointing at your chest when the octave key is not applied and rotating your wrist slightly so that the top of your thumbnail is pointing toward your chin to apply the octave key) I was initially trying to apply the octave key by flexing the first joint of my thumb, this is not the proper way to do it.

[RootyTootoot]

I to play a YAS 62 and have thumb problems :(, to hit the octave key I put my thumb on the rest then roll it up towards the neck so he side of my thumb hit the key. I did the same thing on my old vito and got just as bad pain. sometimes my thumb hurts really bad and I have trouble moving it so i pull it out and move it to the side, there is a loud pop (like the tendon is slipping around the bone really fast) and it feels ok

I'm going to address myself to this post since the OP is from 2003.

It sounds like your technique is wrong. The pad of the thumb should "cover" the octave key at all times so to operate the octave the movement is from the joint of the thumb. There is no "rolling" in the left thumb on sax.