Grassi Tonor sax from '80s

[pumatheman]

Hi to all!
I'm a soprano (yss 475) player from Italy.
did someone knows anyting of a grassi tenor from the '80s Made in Italy -with regular serial number of 38XXX model called 'Wonderful' ???
One of my friends sell it, unfortunatly he leave too far from me and I can't try it. He says that the tenor in never used becouse was forgetted in a his parent cellar. I'm very interested but I don't know anyting about this model I have only heard good reviews of the models "prestige" and "Professional" and "2000", but nothing about the 'Wonderful'.
Could it be a basic model not comparable to the professional or the prestige series?
He have attached two photoes, it looks very well and it is very similar to the pro2000 but this model name 'Wonderful' is very strange.
Good music to all

Bye
pumatheman@email.it

[The A Train]

It looks like silverplated keys and rods(not nickle)on a hi-end Grassi. Extensive engraving would not be present on a cheaper model either..I am thinking pro horn..grab it while you can, these Grassis are real sleepers.

Captain, your thoughts?

[Canadiain]

It looks like silverplated keys and rods(not nickle)on a hi-end Grassi.
MM, Im curious how can you tell by looking? On the other hand the pearls look like plain old white plastic, not very pro, but it could be the picture I suppose.

From the little I know, Grassis of that period could be wonderfull (ha! unintentional pun!), or could be not so good...very variable from sax to sax (sound like a mkVI anyone?). I guess a lot depends on the price how much of a chance to take on it. Looks in good condition anyway, although who can say what the pads would be like.

Good Luck!

[Captain Beeflat]

From everything that we hear, it was only when Grassi made the "Prestige" and the "Professional 2000" did they really get serious about their saxophones...prior to that, they made only student models, &, in all probability this horn is in that bracket. Having said that...I would probably buy it were it not too expensive....I am a sucker for Grassis....

[The A Train]

Usually you don't see a round bell to body brace and extensive engraving that almost encircles the bell on a student horn. Also I guess the flash from the camara made the nickel look lighter to me like silverplate. Good point on the plastic touches -I stand corrected-but I would still think this horn a good one, I too like Grassis my 2000 doesn't say 'Professional' but I think it sounds great. hear it here - Blue Bossa and Watermelon Man (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=542552)

[Canadiain]

True about the engraving, not so sure about the round brace...every cheapo selmer clone has knocked that off.

In this case I cant see any sign of the screws that would be present with a removable bell..around the bottom clamps, so if I had to guess I'd say it was soldered on too, usually a sign of a lower end horn (but not always)

Nowadays you cant even really tell much by the engraving and nickel keys either..the copyists have got savvie to that, and then you get top selmer horn available unengraved...its a topsy turvey world we live in....less so in the 80s when this horn was made though.

[Captain Beeflat]

A. (Medusa Man)....It's on eBay Italia with a metal Berg. Five days to go & no offers yet.......I would have a punt at it, but the owner will only post to Italy. Thanks for the observation that student versions do not have the circular bell brace....kindest regards, L.

[Captain Beeflat]

I would humbly suggest that plastics can look more like nacre than the real thing; especially on a photographs. Must also point out that my Conn, Buescher, R&C, and my Grassi all have soldered on bells....in fact, the only horn that I ever owned with a "bolt on" bell was the one that I disliked most...an oh-so-bland Yam 62

[Canadiain]

My understanding was that the good Grassis of that era were ...shall we diplomatically say "A tribute" to the Selmer MkVI...hence I was expecting a screw on bell.

You might be right about the touches...its all stuff that could be cleared up with better pictures I expect.

[Captain Beeflat]

Just love the commment "a tribute to": well said young sir. The final irony must be that my Grassi Pro 2000 would blow the three Selmers that I have owned, out of the water.

[pumatheman]

ehi Guys thank you very much!
really appreciated information from very high sax doctors!
with this I'm more secure concerning to buy a Tenor Grassi straight from the '80s.
good music to all
John Coltrane is protecting us from Interstellar Space!!!

[Captain Beeflat]

pumatheman..........Pleased to be of any assistance. We still do not know if this is a pro sax, but, as Medusa Man says..."the engraving is pretty elaborate for a student horn". I wish you well & am delighted to know that John Coltrane is protecting us from Interstella Space....a constant worry! :-)

[The A Train]

Pum - I am hoping you will buy it and come back here and tell us your impressions. I am still not convinced that is not silverplated keys & rods -the tint looks just like my Medusa also I looked at pictures I took last year of my Grassi and the touches look plastic in my pics too and they are not and with the extensive engraving I am not convinced that that is not a 'pro' model. Is the word 'Wonderful' engraved somewhere on the horn or was it just written on the sales tag maybe describing the sax? In in event let us know what you think of it.
thanx,
Alan

[Tryptykon]

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Ida-Maria-Grassi-Tenor-sax-saxophone-Selmer-copy_W0QQitemZ170047148270QQihZ007QQcategoryZ16234 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The dimensions look promising as long as the toneholes are in reasonable locations,
pitchwise.
ser. no is 42,000.
http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/i/08/e6/40/7a_1.JPG
http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/dc/bd/ca_1.JPG

[Captain Beeflat]

Yes, another pretty looking saxophone that has Grassi stamped upon it. Yes, it looks good....but do not all saxophones look good?
All that I know about Grassis, & this is empiric, is that I have a "Professional 2000" tenor that is the equal, or better than, any of the many revered makes & models that I have owned over the years....others say the same about the Pro 2000...but I have played only mine.
Medusa Man has a "Model 2000", which he swears by.....& it certainly sounds good.
By repute, Ida Maria Grassi, known for her student horns, now into her 90s, & for her swansang, produced the Professional 2000 as a two fingered gesture to Selmer........Why then was her "Prestige" model more expensive than the Pro 2000? Was it even better than the Pro 2000? Has anyone on this forum tried, or own a "Prestige", & can perhaps give an opinion.
Grassi, before the Pro 2000 (&Prestige?) made student horns...the only Grassi that I have ever played, other than my own, was an alto with Leader stamped on it....it was dreadful!.........So, the un-named tenor in the photographs.....looks pretty, but is it pretty dreadful to play?

[The A Train]

I remember back in the 80s when I decided to try to play the sax 'again' and I bought a new student model Jupiter from a local dealer. At the time he was trying to sell me one of these 'Grassi Professional 2000' that he also carried. He said that Grassi had a bad rep for making junk for years but that had change with their latest line of horns, and they were something special!..thinking he was just giving me a 'line' I bought the Jupiter for $600 vs the $1400 he wanted for a new Pro Grassi..well you want to talk about junk? -let's talk about that Jupiter! It started falling apart not long after I got it. Needless to say once again I didn't get very far in my quest to learn to play the sax. It ended up in my closet for a couple of years and then eventually traded for an electric bass. The closest I have been able to get to owning a Grassi Pro 2000 is the Model 2000 by Grassi that I currently play. There is a player in the band I am in that plays the Pro 2000(bought in the 80's from the same dealer)and we swapped for a play test and found mine a bit brighter his a bit darker and slightly heavier in weight. He also had a bit more engraving otherwise everything about them was identical. I love the way mine plays and the way his did but as the Captain and the dealer said they really made junk for awhile -so beware! Find out about the model and when it was built.
PS>As a footnote, after the wall came down that dealer started carrying and touting B&S as the best sax,..I thought to myself -"What's this, more junk?"

[mountainman]

I remember back in the 80s when I decided to try to play the sax 'again' and I bought a new student model Jupiter from a local dealer. At the time he was trying to sell me one of these 'Grassi Professional 2000' that he also carried. He said that Grassi had a bad rep for making junk for years but that had change with their latest line of horns, and they were something special!..thinking he was just giving me a 'line' I bought the Jupiter for $600 vs the $1400 he wanted for a new Pro Grassi..well you want to talk about junk? -let's talk about that Jupiter! It started falling apart not long after I got it. Needless to say once again I didn't get very far in my quest to learn to play the sax. It ended up in my closet for a couple of years and then eventually traded for an electric bass. The closest I have been able to get to owning a Grassi Pro 2000 is the Model 2000 by Grassi that I currently play. There is a player in the band I am in that plays the Pro 2000(bought in the 80's from the same dealer)and we swapped for a play test and found mine a bit brighter his a bit darker and slightly heavier in weight. He also had a bit more engraving otherwise everything about them was identical. I love the way mine plays and the way his did but as the Captain and the dealer said they really made junk for awhile -so beware! Find out about the model and when it was built.
PS>As a footnote, after the wall came down that dealer started carrying and touting B&S as the best sax,..I thought to myself -"What's this, more junk?"

Very much the same scenario. Started serious playing again in the 80's.
Even bought from the same dealer! Play tested the Grassi's against everything in sight including Mk VI's and SMLs.

Bought the Pro 2000 tenor (later traded for the B&S 2001). The B&S 2001 even bested the JK SX90 .Bought the Prestige Alto ( just given to my grandson and replaced with the 2001 Alto), bought the Pro 2000 bari and still have it. It roars and unless I go back to playing Bari full time again ( did for 10 years) would not consider trading it.

The Grassi is a great intermediate horn . The B&S is very close to a JK!

[Captain Beeflat]

mountainman....You "play tested the Grassi against everything in sight including Mk V1s and SMLs". I am not certain what you are saying here...as you bought the Grassi in preference, yet consider it "a great intermediate horn", where does this, in your view, place the Mk V1 & SML......less than intermediate?

[MMM]

Hey guys, that tenor in the pics is mine, well soon won't be anymore cause it has no reserve!
Anyway, first of all I'd like to answer the original question: when in my youth (in Rome) a number of friends were playing Grassi (mainly altos) and they were never Selmers but good solid student saxes, no more no less. I have seen the Wonderful model, but couldn't see any difference from the 'no name' Grassi, such as the one I'm selling. Until the 2000 and the Prestige model came out, they were all very much the same (nickel keys, goldie lacquer, decent engraving, etc.), but nothing to shout about. From the reports I'm getting on this forum both the Pro 2000 and Prestige NEED to be tested!
And soon I may be able to help...

In another post I also listed the technical differences between a 2000 and a Prestige (according to an old Lewington catalogue), but if anyone is interested I could repost it.

So, stop knocking my tenor ;) , which is a good student/backup horn (I know my saxes, having owned about 90% of the vintage saxes to have!) well comparable to a mid range Yamaha but for less than half the price (well there had to be a sales pitch!!!!).

For those interested, I have not forgotten my promise and still trying to find out more about Grassi good and bad!
All the Best,
Manlio (MMM)

[Captain Beeflat]

Manlio....Forgive us if we appear to be knocking your horn, but that is not the intention; we are simply curious. Most manufacturers make, or made, saxophones of much the same quality...they made either pro horns, good student horns, or, in some cases, pretty poor horns. Grassi however seem to have covered all fields & we are attempting to find which were the student models & which were the exceptionally good.....& why.
We all, I feel sure look forward to the results of your study on the subject....we have not forgotten & I for one, wish you every success in the sale of your Grassi.

[MMM]

No problem Captain! I was not offended by the remarks, I was just surprised to find the pics on this forum ! It's interesting that every so often interest in this make is stirred again!

On a related matter, I think word has got out about the qualities of the 2000 models, the last one I've seen on eBay being sold in the UK did not reach reserve at nearly £500! That's not cheap for something rather obscure.

Maybe MM can give us a little review on the 2000 vs Prestige... maybe, if we ask nicely?

Cheers,
Manlio

[Captain Beeflat]

To confuse matters further with regard to model names, there is currently a Grassi on ebay (300050701705) which is neither a "Professional 2000" or a "Model 2000"...this simply states "Professional". It honestly looks as if Grassi simply drew model names from a hat. Last week, again on ebay, an evident student model named "Concertino" was offered.....I think that I will just blow mine & enjoy it...the naming of Grassis seems to be a rats' nest.
Another thing...why was all the script in English rather than Italian?

[MMM]

Maybe he just thought it was a Professional model (not necessarily engraved Professional). Well it looks no different from my tenor, which by the way sold disappointingly for only £210 ! What's this world coming to, to think that I paid all of 140 Euros for it including a metal Link !

Anyway, any day I should be receiving a Grassi Prestige alto in silver plate with lacquered keywork!!! Can't wait and will report back (if it arrives)...

Cheers,
MMM

[Captain Beeflat]

No MMM...There is a photograph of the engraving which simply states "Professional"....

[wmclean]

MMM

Did that Grassi every arrive ? ... your thoughts / comments / impressions would be apreciated.

W.

[dottorpalmito]

hello folks, sorry for my english, I'm an italian boy, I hear that the Grassi "wonderful" model is older than the Professional 2000 and it was the top of Grassi before the prestige and professional 2000 models, a famous italian sax player (Carlo Atti) tryed it, and he says that it sound like a Mark VI..another sax player say me that the wonderful is not a student or intermediate model, in a duel vs Yamaha pro 62 he says the sound of Grassi is better while the yamaha is better for mechanic...

[milandro]

....... I have seen the Wonderful model, but couldn't see any difference from the 'no name' Grassi, such as the one I'm selling.For those interested, I have not forgotten my promise and still trying to find out more about Grassi good and bad!...........(MMM)

Well, Manlio, nice to meet you! I am Italian too (and Dutch, it's a long story....;) )

I just came into the possession of a Grassi " Wonderful Model " Alto S.N. 38XXX and, believe me, it looks pretty different from any other Grassi or indeed, any other sax that I've ever seen (and I believe I've seen a few in the short time I got the sax disease) , so different that if you'd ever seen a real Grassi "Wonderful model " (I don't doubt you, but your memory might not be serving you right) you would remember it for sure! I didn't have any time to take any pictures yet but, suffice to say, that each " pearl" is a rectangular mother of pearl (the real stuff , no plastic) and that all the Keys are silver or silver plate (mine are black but will polish fine I believe).

I've bought it from the original buyer who couldn't remember if he had bought it in the late '70 or early '80. It came with original mouthpiece and a beautiful cotton handkerchief with the Grassi logo and address! It has original (sealing) pads with plastic resonators. At a first tentative playing I was pleased but I am going to test it extensively, tomorrow.

How's your research of the Grassi things going?