Pierret Sax

[Helen]

I have a silver Pierret Concerto Model (serial 5XXX) alto sax with left hand bell keys, nail file type G# key, and underslung octive key. It has been a wall ornament since I got it over 20 years ago. I am thinking of taking it with me the next time I go to visit my my horn tech in spring.

I know there are a few Pierret owners on the board, but I don't remember anyone saying they have this model. I was hoping someone could tell me what kind of model (student, intermediate, or pro) this might be. Also, if anyone has played this model before, let me know what kind of sound it is likely to produce. Approx. year of production would be great too!

I know that saxpics has been working on developing some info on the brand for his site, and I have a bit of info that he sent me in the past. Any info. would be greatly appreciated! :roll:

[J.Reb]

I have an old Pierret alto and I like it. Let me know if you want to sell it. Thanks. jhl@comcast.net

[BigDaddyJ]

Helen, I have a silver Pierret Super Artiste alto #13xxx. It also has the nail file G# key. Mine has right hand bell keys and an over the top octave key. It also has a Conn style tunable neck. This is a fantastic sounding horn. The tone is the best I've been able to achieve on alto. Intonation is right on. Ergonomics are good, not great (bell keys right over right hand fingers; easy to overcome, though. This alto is the heaviest alto I've ever played on; I think this reflects in th sound....HUGE, dark, and room fillling. I think you should have your tech look it over and see how much it would be to get it back in shape. I've tried all brands of altos, and this is my favorite. Yamaha intonation with vintage American sound!

[Helen]

Mine has right hand bell keys and an over the top octave key. It also has a Conn style tunable neck.

Thanks for that info Bigdaddy. Mine does have a microtuner too. Maybe my dyslexia is catching up with me, but when I mean it has left hand bell keys, I mean the keys are on the side that touches my leg if it were beside me--Like a student model would have. So if I understand right, your bell keys are on the outside?

The other thing it has, is a spatula type front F key, as opposed to a mother of pearl button I'm used to. Mine is a fairly light weight when compared to my Mark VI. the only alto I have to compare it too.

I am going to get my tech. guy to look at it. It is in beautiful shape with no repair work, completely straight rods, very little wear on the finish except on the octave key, and complete with original mouthpiece (Yuk), case, and even metal end plug. The only thing that might give me grief is that someone has done some work on the octave key at some point. The pivot point has some thin wire around it to aid it's very clumsy operation.

[stitch]

Hi group
just got what I think must be a Pierret tenor stencil - marked 'Hessy's Super Model' (and just try putting that in a search engine! :oops: )
Four things that point to Pierret -
1 arc shaped G sharp
2 vertical serial no, next to 'made in France'
3 microtuner
4 leaf shaped key guard feet
Of course, I wouldn't have gotten very far with the ID if it weren't for saxpics' site, so much gratitude in his direction, but are there any other features that define it as a Pierret? The horns that it resembles on saxpics are the early altos. It has a tiny bis key - is that typical? The front F is MOP rather than a spatula Helen, and though functional I'm not sure it's the same shape it was when it left the factory! It also has a fourth RH palm key, near the high E/F key, that opens a pad at about the same level as the high E pad ... dunno what that's for....

Whatever the make, to my ears it sounds pretty good, despite being well used and repaired (if not prettlly at least solidly...), and is quite weighty.

Any and all thoughts welcomed!

[stitch]

Forgot to mention: serial no 65xx

[stitch]

... nail file G sharp too....

[stitch]

message for Helen: you said in the first post that saxpics had sent you some info re Pierrets; if you still have it, could you copy it to me please? Many thanks in advance,
Stephe
taishell*at*ntlworld.com

[Helen]

Stitch, I've emailed what I got from Pete. I never been able to find out anything other than that. Hope it is somewhat helpful...helen

[stitch]

Thanks Helen; I wonder if Pete got any further info in the past few years? Maybe when he's finished the Keilwerth/Kohlert stuff he'll start on Pierrets :wink:

Did you get your alto looked at, and are you happy with the result?

I wasn't intending to keep my tenor, but it sounds so goooood ...

[Pete]

I'll give it a shot.

I've gotten a few more pics of Pierrets (yes, I wan't more. Send them to saxpics@x-mail.net), but not much more information.

I've got so many irons in the fire, none of them are getting hot. I'll try to get to it in a bit. I can guarantee it won't be soon :(

The most interesting development is that there seem to be an awful lot of Pierret stencils out there. The checklist that was mentioned above is a good indicator, but do note that the funky bell-key bumpers and microtuner isn't found on all Pierrets.

[stitch]

If I can borrow a digital camera I'll get a few pics off to you Pete (can't promise it'll be soon - but then again I daresay you have enough other stuff to keep you busy!). Interesting that there are many stencils; I'm assuming that mine is a UK version, based only on the fact that 'Hessy' doesn't sound French ... but I could be wrong.

[Helen]

I have decided to get my Pierret overhauled. I'm going to take it to my horn repair tech. this weekend.

It will be a while before I get it back. My repair tech. lives almost 500kms (300 miles) away. Once he has it overhauled, the next challenge will be to figure out how to get it home again...

From the pictures Pete has on his site, mine looked identical to the early model alto. One name that appears both on the inside of the case lining, and on the horn itself, is the name C. Jeuffroy. I wonder if this is a stencil horn?

The engraving on the bell says:

* (Large 5 pointed star)
Concerto Model
With
Virtuor
BTE 5000 (Not sure on the #, it a bit too small to read)
* (small 5 pointed star)
Fabrique Par Pierret
* (small 5 pointed star)
C.Jeuffroy
Paris
It then has a stamped letter logo of some kind. Can't make it out the letters.

Gee, this would be much easier with a digital camera. :(

I will take some photos before I take it in for the "before" and after series.

[Helen]

I'm going to be getting my Pierret back from my tech. early in July. He has worked on a couple of Pierrets over the years, and they have all been extremely good sounding and playing horns...So he says anyway...I'm excited to find out what mine will be like.

After I asked him to overhaul it for me, it suddenly occured to me that this could possibly be a high pitch horn...ACK...Oh well, I guess we'll know soon enough....

This got me wondering...Does anyone know if there is a discernable difference in size between low and high pitched instruments?

[Pete]

Yes, there will be a measureable difference, but that difference would be between a HP and LP Pierret of the same model. In other words, you can't say, "I've got a Pierret that's 28.5 inches long and a Conn that's 29.5 inches long. I know the Conn's a LP horn, so the Pierret must be HP."

Visually, you'd have an extremely difficult time telling the difference between a HP and LP horn.

Chances are very good that your Pierret is LP, so I wouldn't fret that much.

Looking forward to your photos. I'll think about a Pierret page, too. I'll look through my archived SOTW posts and hit the newsgroups and see if there's enough info to make one.

[Helen]

Thanks for the info...A Pierret page on your site would be great Pete :!:

[Helen]

Well I got my Pierret back last night from the shop. It has always been a very nice looking horn, but it is now also a very nice playing/sounding horn.

My repair tech. has informed me that in his estimation he would guess this horn to be closer an early 1900s horn, than a 20s or 30s model in part because of the way the springs are set in the horn. In order to adjust the spring tension, the assembly in question needs to be removed, the spring adjusted, and then the assembly put back together, tried out, and so on in a cycle, until the spring tension is perfect. He has seen a number of Pierrets, but none of them had this type of set-up. The ones he's worked on were owned by the original owners and were all bought in the 20s and 30s.

I haven't experimented with different mouthpieces yet, but I did try it last night with my Runyon Custom. With a spoiler, the horn did not want to play in tune, but with the spoiler removed, intonation was very good through the full range of the horn. D2 through F#2 were a bit sharp, but correctable through embouchure adjustment. And yes, the horn is a low-pitch instrument.

I've made arrangements to have a friend photograph it on Monday. We'll get some close-up photos of the spring set-up, microtuner, neck, spatula front F key, and some of the other strange features this old timer has.

I'll advise when the photos are uploaded to some web-space.

[Pete]

L. Pierret. Introduced in 1906. Last produced in the late 1950's or early 1960's. Early horns marked (English translation), "From the workers of Millereau and Besson" (Millereau was purchased by Selmer in the 1930's. Besson was purchased by SML between 1935 and 1940).

There are a couple of examples that are also engraved, "Vercruysse & Dhondt". Other instruments with this engraving were produced by Thibouville-Lamy -- and Masin & Thibouville had some sort of relationship with Couesnon. (The Thibouville family essentially had a finger in every French music company. This is great to know if you're playing "six-degrees of Selmer".)

Pierret was a specialty saxophone-only manufacturer, but IMHO, their horns look like they are considerably older than other makers' of the same era (bell to body brace, cumbersome keywork, etc.). It's as if Pierret found one design that certian people would buy and then stuck with it, kinda like the original VW Beetle.

Addresses : Paris, France. 47 Rue Piat, XXe (last known). 12 Rue Beranger on earlier horns.

Nicest model, IMHO (stencil) (www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/pierret/stencils/Robert_Martin/tenor/silver/)
Oldest I've seen (www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/pierret/early/tenor/example1/)
Newest I've seen (www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/pierret/later_models/alto/)

======

Just call me the king of the cross-reference. The above was distilled from the New Langwill Index and I've added some other snippets that I've found.

I have not written a "feature page" on these horns because I really don't have enough info on them. I do have some pictures at http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/pierret/ and would love people to send me more at saxpics@x-mail.net.

Please note that it's unlikely that you have a c. 1906 horn unless it's got a dual-octave key. Possible, but unlikely. Microtuners were also generally introduced in the 1920's or later. See my comments above about using older designs.

[Helen]

If anyone is interested, I have a page up on this horn. There are a number of really good pictures...Enjoy

http://www.bassic-sax.ca/pierret.html

[BigDaddyJ]

Helen, cool looking alto. Love that octave key on the neck, very unique. Glad you that horn back into playing condidtion. All this talk on Pierrets inspired me to take my Pierret out of the case to blow on it. What a horn! It's leaking a little now, but still sounds awesome. The sound of mine is some where between a Mark VI and a Martin.

[Colt Seavers]

just got what I think must be a Pierret tenor stencil - marked 'Hessy's Super Model'

Stitch - did you ever get any further with this??? I too have just inherited a Sax which says Hessy's Super Model, made in france s/n 6249

Would love to know more about it!!! (sorry to drag up an old post ;) edit: someone has replied to my thread in another section saying its a Pierret Stencil also.
I'll post some pics up when i get a mo.

[stitch]

Stitch - did you ever get any further with this??? I too have just inherited a Sax which says Hessy's Super Model, made in france s/n 6249

Would love to know more about it!!! (sorry to drag up an old post ;) edit: someone has replied to my thread in another section saying its a Pierret Stencil also.
I'll post some pics up when i get a mo.

Hi Colt, hey, no problem dragging up old posts, any addition is always welcome.

As you say, Pierret stencil. I know there was (is?) a Hess(e?)y's music shop in Liverpool where the Beatles reputedly bought their instruments, but as to any connection ....

I ended up overhauling the one I had and it now lives with my brother-in-law in Spain, though sadly gets little use as his young son bursts into tears as soon as he gets it out of the case!

The serial number's 6524, and as it happens I recently came by another tenor I believe to be a Pierret stencil, this time marked 'Dearman Master Model', serial number 9622, so somewhat later than the Super Model and a little different in appearance.

Do you know anything about yours prior history? Looking forward to seeing photos.

[Colt Seavers]

Hi Stitch, thanks for the info 8)

I will post some pics of mine and as much as i can fin out about it's history - its a gift from a friend of my wifes - she bought it several years ago from 'an old jazzman' (lol) so very little info so far : i'm going to see the past owner soon so will dig up all i can and post back with pics :)

Just sourcing a good teacher in Hackney - and working through the beginners guides on the net - played Clarinet till i left school and its helping!

BTW I'm from Liverpool originally - I used to shop in Hessy's when I was growing up - but only for reeds and sheet music and the odd plectrum.....i recall reading that the Beatles bought all their stuff from there. Moved away years ago though and no idea if it still exists.....I have a vague memory that it and Rushworths (the other Liverpool biddie) went bust....:(

Colt

[Colt Seavers]

Update: Damn, repair guys say gbp400-500 - at the least. And the neck may be cracking - its certainly bent!!!! Too much of a gamble to get the work done - so i've bought a yamaha yts275 - student sax - and if in 3 years i have practiced enough and advanced, I can make the decision on restoration....slightly sad for a minute, but then I played the yamaha and boy is it easier than the Super Model!!!! Realise now i'm not as useless as i was beginning to think after a week on longtones over a-g (lower keys werent working!)

[Jazzbrass]

See:
Alto Pierret Super Artiste # 52154

Diaporama :
http://web.mac.com/mjean2/iWeb/Passions/Pierret_superartiste.html