New R&C Vintage Silver&Gold R1Jazz Tenor

[wyliecoyote]

I ordered myself a new tenor from Saxforte, it should be here next week.:D
Vintage silver body, gold plate on keys, engraved.

[Joe Jazz]

Lucky dog, lucky dog!8-)

[Captain Beeflat]

wyliecoyote....Please let us know how you get on with it....my mattegold R1 is a delight.

[wyliecoyote]

wyliecoyote....Please let us know how you get on with it....my mattegold R1 is a delight.

Sound quality is superb. Has the focused punch of a good Selmer, with a much better fat bottom end. Rich subtones, softly whispers the low notes when needed. Aesthetically, breathtakingly beautiful :shock: in a very classic (or classy) sense..(my preference). Ergonomics very good...pretty much a close copy of Selmer on the tables and key pad shapes/diameters/placement..with the addition of a modern designed high F fork key and F# (again, my preference).

The horn does have known intonation "issues" which I will have to work around. I've spoken to Mathew about this a # of times, and was aware of this "issue" prior to purchasing the horn (I had read several reviews of the horn prior to purchase, including one from a U.K. reviewer, which included comments about the intonation differences of the horn)..although it is still a bit more of an "issue" then expected. According to him, Rampone is well aware of this, and has tried a number of things to correct the flatness of the upper stack, sharpness on the third B's., (including a redesigned neck) but "the change in improved intonation by doing so, was not worth the subsequent loss in the quality of sound produced".

So, okay..I really really like this horn:D . What are you doing with your horn, position of mouthpiece, type, reed, mouth position etc. to work with it. Were you able to adjust muscle memory enough to play alongside horns that tend to be sharp in the 3rd octave? or not?. Any pointers or observations would be appreciated. My main instrument, by the way, is an R1 Jazz gold plate baritone..which is equally superb:D , now without the intonation issues.

[wyliecoyote]

I read thru the Rampone setup link, esp. the posts re: Rampone R1Jazz tenor. I have a list of mpc's to try now, thanks to this. Anyone have experience with a Brancher J mpc on a R&C tenor?

[wyliecoyote]

I've adjusted to the differences in this horn regarding intonation and "we" are now getting along together just fine, it has an incredible voice. Having recently played about every other tenor currently being made, IMHO this is the best tenor sax out there. Nothing else I tested sounds like this. I only wish the left hand palm keys were out a bit more, and it would be perfect. I did change out the stock thumb rest. I'd like to have some blue steel springs installed. A modified Otto Link #7 mpc brings out the richness of sound from this horn. Using a Jody Jazz ESP #7 I get a slightly more responsive mpc, but it is lacking somewhat in tone quality. Super happy with R&C...and Saxforte.:D

[mountainman]

I've adjusted to the differences in this horn regarding intonation and "we" are now getting along together just fine, it has an incredible voice. Having recently played about every other tenor currently being made, IMHO this is the best tenor sax out there. Nothing else I tested sounds like this. I only wish the left hand palm keys were out a bit more, and it would be perfect. I did change out the stock thumb rest. I'd like to have some blue steel springs installed. A modified Otto Link #7 mpc brings out the richness of sound from this horn. Using a Jody Jazz ESP #7 I get a slightly more responsive mpc, but it is lacking somewhat in tone quality. Super happy with R&C...and Saxforte.:D

I really love the look of that horn ,but not having been able to see or play one, bought the Shadow instead. After a dozen mouthpieces the Link STM or NY 7* suits me best for preserving the lows on a big bore horn. I know what you mean about palm keys. With my X-Large hands I run the D and F palm keys full out on the B&S and JK horns

I have similar issues with the R&C Saxello. Gorgeous in pictures and unique! Issues of fit, finish, and sound cause me to be unable to buy without being able to try one.

Tested a cannonball black nickel Arc soprano yesterday and it may well be the "Shadow soprano" that JK didn't build for half the price?

I had an issue recently on a newly aquired B&S 2001 Alto with octave E-F going sharp while low E-F remained OK. Was able to have that taken out with a stack height adjustment

[wyliecoyote]

I had an issue recently on a newly aquired B&S 2001 Alto with octave E-F going sharp while low E-F remained OK. Was able to have that taken out with a stack height adjustment


Basically, same approach I used on my R&C R1Jazz bari - C 2/C#2 flat while C3/C#3 sharp. Adjusting the upper stack height moderated both extremes. I also found that voicing/intonation issues on the low notes was corrected by opening the bell keys - especially the A key. Had to bend the A mechanism to do so. When I received the horn I had a double low A bari ! :? and it burbled. Increasing the key height greatly improved the intonation and voicing of the instrument.

[irimi]

"I have similar issues with the R&C Saxello. Gorgeous in pictures and unique! Issues of fit, finish, and sound cause me to be unable to buy without being able to try one."

Mountainman,

You might check out Randy Jones' website (www.tenormadness.com) He recently had a R&C saxello listed. I think that it was an R1 Jazz in silverplate. I think that it was slightly used, but if Randy sells it, it's set up well - new or used.

In addition to that one, he is an R&C dealer and likely has others around for sale, whether new or used.

I don't know what his policy is re: trials or returns, but I think that it's bound to be reasonable.

I've bought two horns from him and he's worked on two others of mine and he's alway been fair.

You can also call him at 319-266-6642.

Rich

PS. I don't know if you should be allowed to live in Maine and own an R&C - no one deserves that much luck.

[mountainman]

"I have similar issues with the R&C Saxello. Gorgeous in pictures and unique! Issues of fit, finish, and sound cause me to be unable to buy without being able to try one."

Mountainman,

You might check out Randy Jones' website (www.tenormadness.com) He recently had a R&C saxello listed. I think that it was an R1 Jazz in silverplate. I think that it was slightly used, but if Randy sells it, it's set up well - new or used.

In addition to that one, he is an R&C dealer and likely has others around for sale, whether new or used.

I don't know what his policy is re: trials or returns, but I think that it's bound to be reasonable.

I've bought two horns from him and he's worked on two others of mine and he's alway been fair.

You can also call him at 319-266-6642.

Rich

PS. I don't know if you should be allowed to live in Maine and own an R&C - no one deserves that much luck.


Rich. Thanks for the positives on Randy. I had seen the horn ,but have not been ready to buy until Jan or later. Really like the horn on the saxwphones.uk website with the gold keys and bell!! Been recently testing the Keilwerths, and Cannonballs. Please tell me all you can comparing your saxello to other sopranos. I like dark!

P. S. As I used to tell my brother in law. "There's no luck involved." Years of hard work, retired, no mortgage, kids gone, and the cow died.

[-88-]

Wyliecoyote:

Now that you've had your R1J for a month or so. I hope you're feeling comfortable with it. My experience with SaxForte was fine. Great shipping and of course I love the R1-J -- I've the silver with gold keys and washed bell.

Anyway this is what I found. The G# stuck like crazy from the start. After a year of this, I got a tech who changed out the pad to a new Prestini and that problem went away. He also replaced the cork on the neck commenting that what was delivered on the horn was not real cork, but synthetic. Didn't know there was such a thing.

Lastly I installed a much better thumbrest. I thought I'd have to give up tenor since my thumb was so sore. Went looking and came up with one of Ton Kooiman's Forza Thumbrests. Fabulous because it holds the thumb straight instead of curved back in the hitchhiker position (carpal tunnel).

Love the sound and ergonomics of the R1-J and the general attention to detail. I've other tenors and my lady says this one has the voice of a Ferrari or Janis Joplin. Pretty accurate.

Oh, almost forgot: the mouthpiece. Like everyone on this forum, I've tried an obscenely large number of mouthpieces and won't detail those here, but the one I have come to for everyday is a vintage Dukoff Hollywood that was reworked by a mouthpiece artist. Sounds close to my Link STM 7* but darker, much more Janis Joplin instead of say Renee Fleming - both great, just a personal preference. It takes a Vandoren Java #3 very nicely, though it also is happy with a Vandoren V16 or ZZ too.

[Stan]

The synthetic cork R&C uses on their saxophones is a cork which will last longer than natural cork and will fit your mouthpiece better than ever (if you dont' switch often between different mouthpieces). The only problem can be the way it looks... IMHO not so nice if compared with the natural counterpart.

Stan

[-88-]

Thanks Stan. I was indeed switching between mouthpieces and the synthetic cork became depressed and yes, you're right looked like hell. But I didn't care much about how it looked, it was I could no longer fit the larger diameter mouthpieces on it. The new genuine cork looks okay but it too is depressed and I need to carry a roll of plumbers tape for those now rare times when I switch to a large diameter mouthpiece.

One solution I haven't implemented on my Rampone & Cazzani is what I have on my P. Mauriat, the corkless neck, a Jim Scimonetti invention that works great: no depression (looks good too), but getting the right O-rings is a bit involved. It would be better if they specified the standard O-ring.

Is that an R1 alto in your lap?

[Stan]

Lap? Do you mean my avatar? No, it is my new custom made soprano :wink:, it looks amazing and play very nicely and in tune. Here a magnification :D and a first sound file, the page will be updated soon:

http://www.hobbysax.com/Setup.html

Stan

[-88-]

Yeah, a bigger picture helped. That's the alto you washed in VERY hot water, right? Anyway I don't do quicktime, unless it's a health matter.

[Stan]

Yes! :D very very hot!!!! But some time "he/she" remembers his previous life and play much more as an alto saxophone... it is warm and powerful especially in the low register.
All the best,

Stan

[wyliecoyote]

Wyliecoyote:

Now that you've had your R1J for a month or so. I hope you're feeling comfortable with it. My experience with SaxForte was fine. Great shipping and of course I love the R1-J -- I've the silver with gold keys and washed bell.

Anyway this is what I found. The G# stuck like crazy from the start. After a year of this, I got a tech who changed out the pad to a new Prestini and that problem went away. He also replaced the cork on the neck commenting that what was delivered on the horn was not real cork, but synthetic. Didn't know there was such a thing.

Lastly I installed a much better thumbrest. I thought I'd have to give up tenor since my thumb was so sore. Went looking and came up with one of Ton Kooiman's Forza Thumbrests. Fabulous because it holds the thumb straight instead of curved back in the hitchhiker position (carpal tunnel).

Love the sound and ergonomics of the R1-J and the general attention to detail. I've other tenors and my lady says this one has the voice of a Ferrari or Janis Joplin. Pretty accurate.

Oh, almost forgot: the mouthpiece. Like everyone on this forum, I've tried an obscenely large number of mouthpieces and won't detail those here, but the one I have come to for everyday is a vintage Dukoff Hollywood that was reworked by a mouthpiece artist. Sounds close to my Link STM 7* but darker, much more Janis Joplin instead of say Renee Fleming - both great, just a personal preference. It takes a Vandoren Java #3 very nicely, though it also is happy with a Vandoren V16 or ZZ too.


I, too, have the silver plate/gold washed engraved bell. Fabulous horn...my neck has synthetic cork...hmm...shortage at the factory?
It also has been compressed thanks to my sax tech..ahem.


No problems with a sticking G# as of yet..

I changed out the thumbrest as well. Stock TR was a killer...I spoke to Mathew @ Saxforte about this.

I'm using a Link #7 mpc modified by John Riley. I'm a bit curious about this...selfishly so..I would very much like to cut down on the mpc experimentation...but it is such an individual issue.....I also (primarily) play an R1 Jazz Baritone sax /gold plate/low A...@ first I was enamored of a Jody Jazz ESP # 6 because of the nice quick response...but as of late I've been playing with a Van Doren V35..again modifed by John Riley (corrected the table). It seems IMO that these large bore R&C horns play better re: intonation when using a deep rounded chamber mpc, rather than with the high baffle piece popular today. In fact, when using the JJ kicker in the ESP, the upper range of the instrument goes quite sharp.
I'm pretty happy with the tenor setup..but..if I get a chance, I would like to try an RPC and a Hollywood.

I think R&C has the best sounding modern tenor hands down..and I've tried many......

Best, B

[wyliecoyote]

Thanks Stan. I was indeed switching between mouthpieces and the synthetic cork became depressed and yes, you're right looked like hell. But I didn't care much about how it looked, it was I could no longer fit the larger diameter mouthpieces on it. The new genuine cork looks okay but it too is depressed and I need to carry a roll of plumbers tape for those now rare times when I switch to a large diameter mouthpiece.

One solution I haven't implemented on my Rampone & Cazzani is what I have on my P. Mauriat, the corkless neck, a Jim Scimonetti invention that works great: no depression (looks good too), but getting the right O-rings is a bit involved. It would be better if they specified the standard O-ring.

Is that an R1 alto in your lap?

I visit Scimonetti's regularly...great people...Jim had a chance to try out my tenor. :D
So...their O ring neck modification works well, huh?

How does the R1 Jazz alto perform..especially re: intonation. My tenor has one problem..flat on the 3rd F/F#.

[Stan]

I visit Scimonetti's regularly...great people...Jim had a chance to try out my tenor. :D
So...their O ring neck modification works well, huh?

How does the R1 Jazz alto perform..especially re: intonation. My tenor has one problem..flat on the 3rd F/F#.

The R1 jazz is OK! very very easy to play, someone say too easy but I don't thing this can be a real problem. Anyway don't expect a five digits MKVI sound or a vintage sound in general. It is a modern alto with a modern sound and a very nice feeling. Perhaps with the right mouthpiece...
On tenor try with a different mpc. A small chamber piece with a low baffle should work... these are large bore horns and require a different approach. I had a similar problem with 3rd F# on my MKVI and I solved with a custom mpc designed to emphasize upper frequencies.
All the best,

Stan

[-88-]

Wyliecoyote:

I am not having a flat problem with 3rd F#. Don't know why that is so. If you visit Scimonetti's regularly please keep an eye out for a P. Mauriat 300 SLG, one of the few horns I think might stand up next to the Rampone et Cazzani R1-J, but I haven't played one yet.

[wyliecoyote]

Wyliecoyote:

I am not having a flat problem with 3rd F#. Don't know why that is so. If you visit Scimonetti's regularly please keep an eye out for a P. Mauriat 300 SLG, one of the few horns I think might stand up next to the Rampone et Cazzani R1-J, but I haven't played one yet.

I've played just about every tenor at Scimonetti's...including a number of P. Mauriat's...incl. the nickle silver super jazz...also top of the line Selmer, Cannonball, Keilwerth, Steve Goodson, Yamaha....the R&C R1Jazz wins my vote hands down...I've never played any Yanagisawas'.....the only tenor that makes me somewhat salivate compared to my R&C was a near 70 year old Selmer Super Balanced Action in silverplate...and your lucky if you can find one of those for less than 7-8 K and if in good shape.

The R&C stock tenor mouthpiece plays great, suprisingly..after I flattened (corrected) the table.

[Stan]

...
The R&C stock tenor mouthpiece plays great, suprisingly..after I flattened (corrected) the table.

Bullet chamber makes the difference ;)

Stan

[-88-]

Really? Okay, I'll go take another look at the piece that came with it. Maybe a little work is all it needs. Bullet chamber, hmm?

[-88-]

Oh, Wyliecoyote, I forgot. Thanks for your comments on what you played at Scimonetti's. I have a number of tenors too and my R&C R1-J remains numero uno. My lady knows when I switch horns and comes out asking me to switch back to that "...Italian one that sounds like a Ferrari with Sarah Vaughan driving at full throttle."

The current favorite mouthpiece is a re-worked Dukoff Hollywood 7*, it's like a Link STM but with way more soul and an experienced voice I treasure.

[Stan]

Really? Okay, I'll go take another look at the piece that came with it. Maybe a little work is all it needs. Bullet chamber, hmm?

Little, hmm?!?
For sure it will play better and better after some refacing work but... be patient :)

Stan

[-88-]

Not little? That bad huh?

[wyliecoyote]

Oh, Wyliecoyote, I forgot. Thanks for your comments on what you played at Scimonetti's. I have a number of tenors too and my R&C R1-J remains numero uno. My lady knows when I switch horns and comes out asking me to switch back to that "...Italian one that sounds like a Ferrari with Sarah Vaughan driving at full throttle."

The current favorite mouthpiece is a re-worked Dukoff Hollywood 7*, it's like a Link STM but with way more soul and an experienced voice I treasure.


:) LOL.......
Let me elaborate on the OEM mouthpiece...the R&C bari mouthpiece was impossible...almost...w/a curved ramp, required a really soft reed...a totally muffled, disappointing experience. :(
In comparison to that!..the R&C tenor mpc is a distinctly better piece...I did take it to the glass abrasion slab and correct the table as I said. It plays about as good as any sax oem mouthpiece...ie "great" in comparison to the bari mpc. I will have a custom job done on it by John Reilly...He customized the mouthpiece I actually use on my tenor...a Link #7 tone edge...which, in his hands, has become a whole awesome world away from the R&C :shock: ...if you want, I can send you contact information for him via PM...he is very reasonable...doesn't like italian horns, though...prefers Yamaha...yawn...:) He has customized mpc for some very respectable muscians and is very good at it...besides making a living in S.Cal as a pro muscian.

[-88-]

Okay, I'll PM you.